Bourbon - my very first attempt

[nikolav]

Hi guys, I'm about to start with my first bourbon mash, so please bear with me. I've done several scotch style whiskeys before, but from what I've read, the process with Bourbon is more involved.

I already have the ingredient and I think I know the process, but please confirm I'm not missing something.

For this mash bill, I have:
10kg malted corn
3kg malted distiller's barley
3kg malted ray
1kg oat hulls (If I need any)
All finely milled, except the hulls, of course.

The mash tun is my boiler - 35 l Digiboil upgraded with a malt pipe. The boiler/mash tun can keep set temp for the time I want, so hopefully I have this covered

The plan is to divide the above mash bill in 3 batches so it can fit the tun.
I still haven't decided if I'm fermenting on or off the grain, but probably it'll be on the grain.

So, my pan is:

• Boil enough water and add the corn. Add glucanase enzymes. Keep the temp at 95-98C like that for 90 minutes, stirring every now and then.

• When the water drops to 65C add the barley and the ray. Add some more glucanase enzymes and keep it like that for another 90 minutes.

• When it drops to pitching temp, transfer everything to the fermenter, pitch the yeast and ferment on the grain. The instructions of the glucanese enzymes suggests I add some in the ferment?

Is there anything which seems wrong with the process?
Regarding the oat hulls, provided I'm probably fermenting on the grain, do I need to add any?
Regarding the glucanase enzymes, I read they would help make the mash more liquid. Do I really need them?
Also, regarding the yeast. I have some Angel's AM-1 Distillers yeast, which I've used for scotch styles whiskeys before. It doesn't mention specifically Bourbon, unlike Angel's AG-2, which I don't have. Can I go with AM-1? With the yeast, I'm limited to what I can find locally in New Zealand.

Any other suggestions, tips and tricks?

[SW_Shiner]

Looks good. Looks like standard mashing process and should do you well. One thing i do different with mine, is i add the corn and some High Temp Amylase enzyme as its all heating up. The early enzymes help to keep it thinner to stir, and cuts down a bit on the rest time. Once boiling, i let it cool to the right temp before adding the remainder of the enzymes and any malt if im using it.

Hopefully someone will chime in, but i believe glucanase is not the enzyme you want to use as per your method.(Edit: Will most likely be denatured at that temp.) Alpha Amylase is the one that does the majority of the starch conversion.

[nikolav]

Thanks mate!
For the conversion, I'll be relying on the malted grains only. I got the glucanase jut to help with gumminess in the mash, not for conversion. Never dealt with corn before, so wanted some extra help with that.

Not sure if it's OK to post links here, but this is what the site I got it from claims: https://www.hbmalt.co.nz/index.php?rout ... uct_id=457

[SW_Shiner]

Well, I've just realised you're using malted corn. My apologies, i was responding thinking unmalted corn. I haven't used malted corn before, so my method probably isn't the best for your case. Regarding the glucanase, i would follow the instructions they give. However, since you're planning on taking the temp quite high, then i would do as you have said, add some before temp increase and some after its cooled a bit. Since raising the temp past 75°c will denature them, i would add probably leave the largest addition for after its cooled to the correct temp.

[PalCabral]

Hi Nikolav.

There are a few misunderstandings in your approach that you need to correct. The first is the mashing protocol, and in many ways it is good news. The second is the enzymes you've got and how to use it.

Indeed most Bourbon recipes you'll find follow the high-to-low mashing protocol because most Bourbons are using whole corn, cracked corn, coarse ground corn or corn meal. None of them have been cooked. Initial boiling and high-temp "cooking" is to break down the starch membranes and make the starches available for conversion. When beer brewers or malt distillers mash, we follow the cold-to-hot protocol because malts have already been through a process where the starch is ready for conversion and the enzymes in the grains have been activated. In other words, with malts and precooked/pregelled grains, you can go straight to mashing.

As you are using malted corn and all the other ingredients are malts, you should follow the cold-to-hot protocol, just like you would when you would have mashed malts. You should be familiar with this mashing process already, right, having made malt whiskies.

I need to take my wife to work now. We had our first snow this night so it's dicey out there and I'd be the rally driver for the day. Will continue when I come back. This is Part 1 if you like to see it that way.

[subbrew]

Continuing the last post. You are using malted grains so do not need to gelatinize the grain. Thus the 98 C temp hold is not needed. Just like an all malt whiskey (which is what you are doing, just corn malt rather than barley) you only need to bring it up to 150 F or so and hold it. The enzymes from the malt should be sufficient to convert.

[nikolav]

Thanks guys
Yep, I know I don't need the 98C stage, just read somewhere it helps even with melted corn for better conversion, but happy to skip this step. It makes it so much easier.

I'm just not too sure what this cold to hot protocol means. With the "scotch" I simply kept the mash for 90ish minutes at 65C, waited to cool down to 30ish C (actually much more than 80 min, as I waited to cool down) and pitched the yeast. Can you elaborate on that, PalCabral?

[PalCabral]

Part 2:

Back from the snow. Just to find the lovely SQL 1040 error again. Every single day. Seems to be the most difficult error to fix in the universe.

Back to mashing. For corn malt, the optimal temperature for converting starch to sugar is between 63-67C, and for your malted barley and malted rye it’s pretty much the same temperatures. So the optimal infusion temperature for your mash consisting of malted grains should optimally be around 63-65C to get maximal conversion. I would personally do a two step mash, with a 90 minutes rest at 63C and a second at 67C until all starches have been converted – do an Iodine test to check the presence of starches in the mash.

This is where store bought enzymes may come into play. In your case, you should have enough enzymes in your malts to convert all the starches to sugar but many distillers still prefer to use store-bought enzymes to make sure they get full conversion. The enzyme we are talking about here is alpha-amylase and this enzyme works best between 65-75C, which is why many distillers rest at 67C. I don’t think you need alpha-amylase for your mash, but if you were using flaked corn I would suggest you’d add alpha-amylase to the batch and do a second rest at 67C.

However, you are using rye, albeit rye malt, and rye has a tendency of making a thick goo of the mash. This is why your LHBS recommended you glucanase enzymes. The application of this enzyme is not at the high temperature you have been told though. You should use it in the beginning of the mashing process, as you heat up. The optimal temperature for beta-glucanase is 40-60C.

What you should do is to mash in your rye and barley malts at 40C, along with the oat hulls, add your glucanase enzyme and rest at 45C for 15-30 minutes. This is called a Beta-glucan rest and serves the purpose of reducing the beta-glucans in the grains, in this case the rye. The enzyme will help it further. Then raise the temperature to 63C, add your corn malt and do the saccharification rest at that temperature until done.

Many distillers let the mash cool after saccharification, adding another enzyme called glucoamylase at about 60C. This enzyme converts any dextrins created during starch conversion to glucose, which is fermentable (the dextrins are not). But when if you are only resting at 63C, you shouldn’t be creating any dextrins, only glucose, as long as your temperature control is fine. With your digiboil that should not be a problem.

I wish you good luck with you Bourbon! I am sure it will be great!

I'm just not too sure what this cold to hot protocol means. With the "scotch" I simply kept the mash for 90ish minutes at 65C, waited to cool down to 30ish C (actually much more than 80 min, as I waited to cool down) and pitched the yeast. Can you elaborate on that, PalCabral?

Ok, when you make beer with malts your mashing process is traditionally to raise the temperature, step by step, starting at a lower temperature, say 35-40C. Then raise to saccharification rest temp where your malts infuse and convert starch to sugar. That's cold to hot. If you are using raw corn, you mash from boiling down to saccharification temp. It's necessary because of raw corn's constitution and lack of enzymes. This is hot-to-cold.

Many brewers mash in directly at the saccharification temperature, 63C for example, for a single-infusion mash. This is what you have been doing so far, clearly. But in your case now, using rye, it is beneficial to mash in your rye at a lower temp to reduce the beta-glucans. Then raise the temperature to 63C, mash in your corn malt, and do the infusion at that temp.

[nikolav]

Thanks, mate. It makes sense now.
With the previous scotch mashed, I didn't actually had a choice as I was using a DIY chili bin mash tun, so the cold to hot thing wasn't possible.

[nikolav]

Also, another thing I'm not sure, If I'm fermenting on the grain do I need the oat hulls?

[PalCabral]

Also, another thing I'm not sure, If I'm fermenting on the grain do I need the oat hulls?

The rice/oats hulls are mainly used to improve lautering in thick mashes. Your Digiboil is using some sort of pump to circulate the wort, right? In this case, the oats hulls will help not getting a stuck mash. I never ferment on grain, after mashing I raise the malt pipe and sparge. I don't think there is any reason why you could not ferment on grain with oat hulls, but I don't know for sure.

Is there a reason why you don't just separate the grains from the wort and ferment off grain? You said you mash Scottish malts, the Scotts ferment Whiskey washes off grain, just like brewers. I let the mash cool to 58C (I add glucoamylase at 60C), rest there for 60 minutes, then I raise the malt pipe, sparge with backset, and lift out the grains. Then I cool to yeast pitching temp. I see no flavor benefits by fermenting on grains.

Edit: checked the Digiboil and realized it doesn't circulate the wort. But you would want to sparge after the mashing, right? It's easy to do and then ferment on a bucket?

[PalCabral]

Edit: checked the Digiboil and realized it doesn't circulate in the mash. But you would want to sparge after the mashing, right? It's easy to do and then ferment on a bucket?

Thinking about it, I'm not sure if oat hulls have any major benefits in the Digiboil? Since you're not lautering or sparging when fermenting on grain, I don't think the hulls add any value. If you had the digimash set up, with circulation pump and malt pipe, then oat hulls would be of help. But in your process, I don't think you need them. I use rice hulls in my BrauMeister because of the lautering.

[nikolav]

Thanks guys, I think now I have everything I need to know. I may ferment off the grain, I have some more experience with this method. And no, I don't have a pump. It's just a mash tun with a malt pipe.

[GrumbleStill]

Thanks guys, I think now I have everything I need to know. I may ferment off the grain, I have some more experience with this method. And no, I don't have a pump. It's just a mash tun with a malt pipe.

A few thoughts that you may wish to consider doing off grain Bourbon with the Digiboil:

The bottom plate in the Digiboil malt pipe doesn’t like too fine of a grind. I’d suggest you go a course grind for your Barley and Rye. The malted corn doesn’t need to be ground, Gladfields have already done the work for you


The addition of hulls makes brew day a much more enjoyable experience imo. I’ve only personally used Rice Hulls - so can’t give actual experience with oats.

There can be a large temperature difference between where the probe is on the bottom and the body of the mash. To overcome this you can occasionally draw off a few jugs of wort from the tap, pour it back on top and give it a good stir.

The home brew store gluconase enzymes I’ve used work a treat. No more snotty mash and they work at mash temps, so no need to dick around with stepped temps and glucan rests. Just heat the water to strike temp (I typically go 75C), stir in the corn, drop the set point to 65C and let the temp drop to <70. At that point add the barley, rye and gluconase enzymes.

Once the mash is done I lift the pipe and cold sparge to help speed up the process of cooling the mash to pitch temp. I always add Glucoamylase at this stage to ensure it ferments out nice and dry.

Finally - start saving up for a mag drive pump - they make life much, much easier.

Hope it all goes well.
Cheers

[nikolav]

Thanks GrumbleStill!

All the grains are pre-milled and the corn is milled much finer than the other grains.





I was concerned as well for the corn being too fine for the pipe screen, so I was thinking of using a brew bag as well.
A pump... One day, when I save some cash. Until then, I'm taking your advice of manually circulating with a jug.

[nikolav]

I made two batches today and I'm afraid I screwed the second one.
With the first batch, I think I got full conversion, or at least the iodine test said so.
With the second batch I think i'm stuck. It's been sitting at the saccharification rest for over 3 hours and still the iodine test fails. I think maybe I overshoot the temp. The mash tun is set to 63C and displays 63C, but my handheld thermometer shows 68-69C. Did I denature the enzymes?
If I don't get full or any conversion, can I still save this batch? It's nighttime here, and I can't get any enzymes until tomorrow afternoon (need to go to work as well). If it's not too late to add some enzymes tomorrow, what should they be?
As an alternative, I have the Angel's yellow label yeast and was thinking to ferment on the grain with it if the iodine test keeps failing.

[PalCabral]

Even if you overshot you will have converted something and 69C is well within acceptable range. The iodine test shows the existence of starch but not how much. I use the hydrometer to tell me how much sugar has been converted.

The risk is that you may have converted a lot of starch into unfermentable dextrines when you overshot. Are you using glucoamylase? It cam be added to the ferment to convert dextrines to glucose while fermentation is on going. If you dont have it, use the YLAY you’ve got.

I dont know if you are using a brewing program or not. They will give you the estimated OG of the batch you’re mashing. Use a brewing hydtrometer to measure the SG when you mashed and you will be able to tell actual OG. The gap between projected and actual should be small.

[nikolav]

I didn't have any glucoamylase, but got some from the HBS and added it in the ferment together with the yeast.
The SG was about 1.060 before sparging or 1.040 after the sparging for all the 3 batches.
For the third batch I also used Alpha-Amylase and this time the iodine test was ok.

[planohog]

I did not see this anywhere in the posts, so here we go, the digiboil , the temp control is an on/off switch basially.
trying to control the temp in that manner may provide un-expected results.
Others have commented that the temp probe is on the bottom, where the heating elements are located. One poster gave a great solution,
to dump a little then pour it right back in.
I say try it, your idea, we all want this to work. If it is not productive, then I want to suggest the ice chest method. Put your corn and oats,
in the ice chest, fill the ice chest with required amount of boiling water. Stir it all up with enzymes and close the lid for 4+ hours. Temp will
eventually get down to 148 , add your malts.
Controllers for the digi boil, check this viewtopic.php?t=95204
Good Luck.

[nikolav]

Hi planohog
The Digiboil hold the temperature pretty stable I think. Not sure what happened during the second batch. Maybe I did / measured something wrong.
And yes, as I don't have a pump I was manually dumping liquid from the bottom and pouring it on top. Not fun, given I was using bre bag and it needed a lot of convincing to get some flow. It worked well on the end, but maybe using my chilly bin mash tun would've been much easier.

I use the Digiboil together with a cheap volt regulator from AliExpress when distilling. Works as expected.

PS. It's getting so hot in the garage now, the fermentation is pretty much done in 3 days.