My First AG Ready to Pitch DADY But Questions

[Wannabee]

First AG try. I researched this ad nauseam. I hope I included all relevant info. So I started with the following simple recipe:

10 lbs flaked corn
2 lbs Breiss 2-Row Crushed Malted Barley
2 tsp HT Alpha Amalyse
6 gallons water - Ph approx 4.8

While heating water, I added 5.2 Ph Stabilzer which didn't work for shit. Checked throughout mashing using brew store Ph strips
At approx 165-170 degrees added flaked maize and gently cooked until gelatinization occured.
Added NGS HT Alpha Amalyse - per instructions worked best between 150-190 degrees. Cooked a bit longer. Killed heat....
At 153 degrees, added 2lbs crushed malted Distillers Malt (2-Row)
Held heat pretty steady between 150-156 degrees for 90 minutes

No conversions using Lugol's Iodine
Brix was 17-17.5
Ph still sitting at approx 4.8 c

After 3 more hrs same results. Temp varied between 135 and 145 degrees after initial 90 minutes.

I ran out of time so I squeezed bag and transferred to fermenter. A little sparging gave me a final Brix at 16.5= SG 1.067

So non-conversion caused me a bit of stress. Maybe..........
-the Brix reading may be inaccurate due to starches being present?
-the PH of water was too low?
-temperature ranges of barley and amalyse used incorrectly? - opinions ranged all over so I stuck with averages
-there's nothing to worry about?

Thanks in advance for your opinion

[Bolverk]

The amylase works from 150-190, but the corn needs to gel first to make the starches accessible.

Corn needs 2 hours a 175, or 45 min at 190. At 165 you might have gel'ed some of the really small granuals but you missed the bulk of it...

[Wannabee]

Will follow that advice next batch. Thanks, Bolverk!

[Homebrewer11777]

He did say it was flaked corn. If it was the flaked corn made for brewing beer it is already gelatinized and can be mashed directly with the malt. Cooking at a higher temperature won't hurt but is not necessary.

[Bolverk]

He did say it was flaked corn. If it was the flaked corn made for brewing beer it is already gelatinized and can be mashed directly with the malt. Cooking at a higher temperature won't hurt but is not necessary.

My bad, I missed that

[8Ball]

Cooking the flaked corn with HT enzymes was a good thing. I’d mash in the malts at 149F-140F for a couple hours or so. 156F is too high for complete conversion. But, if you got an SG 1.067 then take the win and press on.

[Wannabee]

Thanks 8. Round 2 will be modified accordingly.

[Deplorable]

Yeah 156 is hot for the malts. I'd suggest using a strike water calculator to determine what temperature you want to add your malts at to maximize their effectiveness.

[PalCabral]

Using flaked corn means all you need is to hold the temp at 144-158. Not sure if HT alpha amylase make any sense when using flaked corn, as Homebrewer said it’s not hurt but it wont help much either. I mash with flaked corn and malts with rests at 145, 152 and 158 for 60+90+60 mins, or until converted. I use regular alpha amylase, HTAA is for cooking corn in my book.

Get normal alpha amylase and keep your rest temp stable at 152, then use glucoamylase when you cool as you will for sure have converted dextrines which wont ferment. You didnt mention gluco, if you dont have it, get it.

[Wannabee]

Using flaked corn means all you need is to hold the temp at 144-158. Not sure if HT alpha amylase make any sense when using flaked corn, as Homebrewer said it’s not hurt but it wont help much either. I mash with flaked corn and malts with rests at 145, 152 and 158 for 60+90+60 mins, or until converted. I use regular alpha amylase, HTAA is for cooking corn in my book.

Get normal alpha amylase and keep your rest temp stable at 152, then use glucoamylase when you cool as you will for sure have converted dextrines which wont ferment. You didnt mention gluco, if you dont have it, get it.

Hey Pal, thanks for the response. I realize the HTAA was for cooking which I plan to do in the near future, but it sure broke that porridge up nicely. The Gluco was another one of those steps where information was inconsistent. Anyway, can you elaborate on the resting sequence/temps? I didn't quite grasp where the malts additions occur using your example. Flaked corn hydrated between 144-158, then add x malt at x temp and hold for x........

[PalCabral]

Sure, Wannabe. Since the flaked corn is already gelled and cooked, I dont separate corn and malt. Heat to the desired rest temerature and mash corn and malt in at the same time, at a slightly higher temp to compensate for the heat loss. I step mash so I heat to 164f and mash corn and barley malt there for 60 minutes. Then raise to 152f, rest for 90 minutes, anf if I’m still not converted, I raise temp to 157f and rest for 10-60 minutes.

Once good, I let the mash cool to 140f, add glucoamylase and let it rest between 122 and 140 for an hour, then I separrate the grains from the wort, and cool over night to pitch temp.

[Wannabee]

Sure, Wannabe. Since the flaked corn is already gelled and cooked, I dont separate corn and malt. Heat to the desired rest temerature and mash corn and malt in at the same time, at a slightly higher temp to compensate for the heat loss. I step mash so I heat to 164f and mash corn and barley malt there for 60 minutes. Then raise to 152f, rest for 90 minutes, anf if I’m still not converted, I raise temp to 157f and rest for 10-60 minutes.

Once good, I let the mash cool to 140f, add glucoamylase and let it rest between 122 and 140 for an hour, then I separrate the grains from the wort, and cool over night to pitch temp.

Makes sense now. Thanks, Pal!

[Homebrewer11777]

Pal is sticking with a beer brewing mash with temperatures increasing as you progress through the mash.

Bourbon distillers typically do it the other way, start high with boiling water infusion step with the corn (when using un gelatinized corn), then adding grains as the temperatures drop. The tricky balancing point on what is too high for adding the enzyme bearing malted grains is that you want it high enough that the naturally occurring lacto bacteria and wild yeast on the malts/grains gets killed, but low enough that the enzymes are not denatured. If your mash is not well mixed you may have pockets of mash that don't reach the temperature to pasteurize. You can fix this by erring on side of too hot, accepting that you probably denatured your beta amylase enzymes, and then replacing them with glucoamylase once temperatures drop back down to safe zone for the product you are using.

That high temp alpha is great stuff too. Corn is crazy weird to work with if you are coming from a beer brewing background. High temp alpha makes it play nice.

[Wannabee]

Pal is sticking with a beer brewing mash with temperatures increasing as you progress through the mash.

Bourbon distillers typically do it the other way, start high with boiling water infusion step with the corn (when using un gelatinized corn), then adding grains as the temperatures drop. The tricky balancing point on what is too high for adding the enzyme bearing malted grains is that you want it high enough that the naturally occurring lacto bacteria and wild yeast on the malts/grains gets killed, but low enough that the enzymes are not denatured. If your mash is not well mixed you may have pockets of mash that don't reach the temperature to pasteurize. You can fix this by erring on side of too hot, accepting that you probably denatured your beta amylase enzymes, and then replacing them with glucoamylase once temperatures drop back down to safe zone for the product you are using.

That high temp alpha is great stuff too. Corn is crazy weird to work with if you are coming from a beer brewing background. High temp alpha makes it play nice.

How's it goin' Homebrew, I'm from a wine background so it all weird to me! I've only made Eau di Vie to this point as well. Slightly off topic question.... do you think I'm better served learning how to cook cracked corn rather than using the flaked? I'm paying the premium on flaked simply because I wanted to ease into this rather than adding the cooking step. But damn expensive it is. (retiree budget)

[Homebrewer11777]

How's it goin' Homebrew, I'm from a wine background so it all weird to me! I've only made Eau di Vie to this point as well. Slightly off topic question.... do you think I'm better served learning how to cook cracked corn rather than using the flaked? I'm paying the premium on flaked simply because I wanted to ease into this rather than adding the cooking step. But damn expensive it is. (retiree budget)

Yes for sure!

[PalCabral]

I use flaked corn so I don't need the blasted cooking and stirring. Flaked corn just becomes another ingredient in the mash bill, not an entire project. Rye is excluded from this discussion. But if you go with cracked corn, Wannabee, then you need to follow the traditional corn mashing spectacle, or use YLAY. I succumbed to YLAY because of the big corn mashes, not even flaked corn becomes fun to work with then.

Wannabee, have you checked YLAY (yellow label angel yeast) at all? It's natural option to boiling, stirring, slobbing and cursing.

[Wannabee]

I use flaked corn so I don't need the blasted cooking and stirring. Flaked corn just becomes another ingredient in the mash bill, not an entire project. Rye is excluded from this discussion. But if you go with cracked corn, Wannabee, then you need to follow the traditional corn mashing spectacle, or use YLAY. I succumbed to YLAY because of the big corn mashes, not even flaked corn becomes fun to work with then.

Wannabee, have you checked YLAY (yellow label angel yeast) at all? It's natural option to boiling, stirring, slobbing and cursing.

Heard of it for sure. I'll definitely research further. Loved the flaked. The cracked corn option was for economical reasons. Also have a few local feed stores within reasonable driving distance. I got plenty of time on my hands to experiment. Thanks again to all posters.

[PalCabral]

I totally agree the price for proper flaked corn is prohibitive. It's double the cost per kilo compared to cracked corn. I am paying 24SEK per kilo flaked corn if I buy a 25kg bag and only 12SEK per kilo cracked corn from the feed store.

[subbrew]

If you can find the flaked corn at an animal feed store it is much cheaper. I get flaked corn for $14 per 50lb bag. Yes, it does have bits of stem and cob in it but that has not made a difference in how well the bourbon tastes. IF in the US you can try Tractor Supply or search for a farmers co-op or grain elevator.

And after your first run you will have backset to add so you won't need to worry about other PH stuff. In a 10 gallon all grain batch I use 9 gallons of water and 1 gallon of backset and have never had an issue.

[Homebrewer11777]

Here brewing grade flaked corn is about $2/pound. That is buing the 5# bags from More Beer to get free shipping.
I'm not sure feed grade flaked corn is gelatinized to same extent as the brewery grade stuff but I'd give it a try if I could find it. Probably you can in NC, where I live not so easy.

I do really like food grade corn meal bought in bulk online. It is about $30 including shipping for 50 pound bag delivered to my house, is easier to work with because doesn't need extra milling and is very uniform. I get better yield from the cornmeal than feed grade cracked and then in the end no doubt it is produced for human consumption when it comes to chemical treatments. Not that that is really saying much here in the US lol.

[subbrew]

I use 2.25 lb/gal of the feed grade flaked corn, usually 70 to 80% of the grain bill and consistently hit 1.065 to 1.067.

Feed corn should be gelatinized. In order to be soft enough to roll without shattering it needs to sit in a steam chest for about 90 minutes. I was the maintenance manager for a grain processing plant for 9 months. the most nasty thing I had to deal with was the rollers stopped and we had to manually clean out that steam chest, about 3 tons of hot, sticky grain.

[8Ball]

Regarding flaked corn from a homebrew supply vs feed grade: I picked up a 50# sack of preservative free cracked corn today for $10.50 — that’s $0.21 per pound. The date on the sack says made on 01/06/2026. I’ve also paid $115 for sacks of heirloom corns shipped from Dancing Star Farm and I will gladly do it again. Either way you go, it’s cheap insurance to cook corn with HT enzymes followed by good malts &/or gluco.

[Wannabee]

Regarding flaked corn from a homebrew supply vs feed grade: I picked up a 50# sack of preservative free cracked corn today for $10.50 — that’s $0.21 per pound. The date on the sack says made on 01/06/2026. I’ve also paid $115 for sacks of heirloom corns shipped from Dancing Star Farm and I will gladly do it again. Either way you go, it’s cheap insurance to cook corn with HT enzymes followed by good malts &/or gluco.

I'm absolutely buying that insurance. Once this batch of flaked finishes fermenting as it happily is right now, I found a local feed store that cracks their own for $11.45/50# lbs. Along with the amylse, that's a cheap way of learning. Thanks again 8.......

[planohog]

I use a large ice chest.
put corn in the bottom, then add 214 F water 2lb corn 1gallon water.
after stirring and adding HTL this is my time and temps.
4:42. 183F
5:30 178
7:30 173
8:40 170
10:12 167.iodine test pass
10:30 166
Then removed from ice chest and put in ferment waiting for 148F to add the rest of the grains.

Good Luck.

[Wannabee]

Just a follow up and a huge thanks to all the brothers here who guided me in my first all-grain attempt. Along with your advice, I followed the HT Amalyse & Gluco Amalyse protocol and used some additional guidance from an old video of pintoshine using enzmes in an all corn mash.

I'm happy to say I've done 5 more sucessful runs after the first semi-sucessful attempt outlined in original post. That means full conversion and some really flavorful distillate. I figured I try 3 different grain bills, on or off grain and compare. Single thumper run with tails from previous run. SG has consistently been aroung 1.06-1.063.

83/17 cracked corn - barley (off grain)
70/20/10 - cc- red wheat - barley (on and off grain)
72/14/14 - cc - rye - barley (on and off grain)

Corn/barley makes for some nice white sippin' while the rye and wheat are begging for wood. Can't decide which one I like better.

Next step is deciding which recipe I'd like to place in a Badmo or DIY Badmo clone. I have a well-equipped woodshop and plenty of free time so I'm looking forward to making a clone.

Thanks for listening
Regards - Wannabee