Steam Generator

[Duke62]

I found these on Ali Express. They are used for Irons, mops and Steam cleaners. Basically a tube wrapped around an element in a case. They are used with a low volume pump. Has anyone used these for mashing or distilling?

IMG_4423.jpeg

IMG_4422.jpeg

[Bolverk]

Can you share the link?

[Novice]

According to Alibaba a 7kw can produce 500 g of steam per min. with the right pressure. Adding safety devices and cleaning element would be a bit difficult compared to using a keg.

[Duke62]

Can you share the link?

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mtnXZk7
There are many other models

[Duke62]

According to Alibaba a 7kw can produce 500 g of steam per min. with the right pressure. Adding safety devices and cleaning element would be a bit difficult compared to using a keg.

There is literally no tank. It is on demand steam regulated by a water pump. A manometer could be added to the output line. I am not sure if it is even needed? If the pressure exceeds the pump output it will stop. I don't think I would push mash through it?

[shadylane]

There is literally no tank. It is on demand steam regulated by a water pump. A manometer could be added to the output line. I am not sure if it is even needed? If the pressure exceeds the pump output it will stop. I don't think I would push mash through it?

I'm guessing it could be used for turning pure water into steam but would need a controlled pump or feed chamber.
Too much water in and it would make heated water not steam, too little and the elements would overheat.
I don't think the little steam generator would last very long. Most likely it would burn out due to air lock.

[Duke62]

I'm guessing it could be used for turning pure water into steam but would need a controlled pump or feed chamber.
Too much water in and it would make heated water not steam, too little and the elements would overheat.
I don't think the little steam generator would last very long. Most likely it would burn out due to air lock.

Yes it will require a simple speed control pump. It seems with a controlled flow of the appropriate amount of water it would be very durable. I am thinking Water input, on/ off switch, speed control, pump and flash boiler would be an inexpensive, simple way to generate continuous steam. This could be nice on a small continuous still. Supply of beer would be the limiting factor.

I ordered a cheap turnkey 110v steam cleaner for proof of concept. Gambling $60 for 1600 watts of steam. We will see!

[shadylane]

Yes it will require a simple speed control pump. It seems with a controlled flow of the appropriate amount of water it would be very durable. I am thinking Water input, on/ off switch, speed control, pump and flash boiler would be an inexpensive, simple way to generate continuous steam. This could be nice on a small continuous still. Supply of beer would be the limiting factor.

I ordered a cheap turnkey 110v steam cleaner for proof of concept. Gambling $60 for 1600 watts of steam. We will see!

I don't think the steam generator pictured would ever be durable because, minerals from the water would build up on the heating elements and there's no way to remove and clean them. If you do give it a try, start out pumping too much water and slowly decrease the feed rate until it's blowing steam.

[Yummyrum]

Maybe it might be better as an on demand hot water heater . Be interesting to see what flow rate you could get from it at various temps .

[Bolverk]

Maybe it might be better as an on demand hot water heater . Be interesting to see what flow rate you could get from it at various temps .

Not worth it from my experience... i dont know if you remember I made that 4500w one and it only made about 1L/min of 99c

you need a lot of power to produce a meaningful volume for mashing... way more than most can manage on residential power

[shadylane]

I ordered a cheap turnkey 110v steam cleaner for proof of concept. Gambling $60 for 1600 watts of steam. We will see!

got a pic or link?

[tommysb]

Is there a way you can run a water softener before it, to minimise scale buildup etc? I would try and do that if possible.

[Yummyrum]

I ordered a cheap turnkey 110v steam cleaner for proof of concept. Gambling $60 for 1600 watts of steam. We will see!

got a pic or link?

Maybe this .
I just found this on AliExpress: https://a.aliexpress.com/_mMsYYkX

[BigSwede]

Not worth it from my experience... i dont know if you remember I made that 4500w one and it only made about 1L/min of 99c

you need a lot of power to produce a meaningful volume for mashing... way more than most can manage on residential power

I think you're spot on here. Many kilowatts required, plus those connecting lugs' massive size says "I'm a very power hungry beast.

[Bolverk]

Heres my hot water heater thread for those interested

viewtopic.php?t=94586

[Duke62]

Here is a quick video:

Results

Got 100c steam at lowest pump speed.

Start One gallon @ 1205 23.6c
12 minutes 65c
17 minutes 86c
21 minutes 94.9c boiling
29 minutes 95.3c
31 minutes 95.7 that’s all we get. The excess water just steams off.

Picked up .5 gallon of excess water from the steamer.
At 0ver 95c it just steamed off. I think I should start with .5 gallon and things wound speed up.

[Duke62]

Heres my hot water heater thread for those interested

viewtopic.php?t=94586

I have been drooling over this but..... Squirrel.

[Bolverk]

Heres my hot water heater thread for those interested

viewtopic.php?t=94586

I have been drooling over this but..... Squirrel.

Yeah don't waste your time or money on this unless you can throw 18kw at this idea... juice aint worth the squeeze.

[shadylane]

Got 100c steam at lowest pump speed.

Stick the steam wand into water and see if it violently knocks and bangs due to the steam collapsing.
If it don't, the little steam generator is only blowing steaming hot water.

[Novice]

Well you can use it to clean the shower or remove some debris from a boiler.
You would have never known if you hadn't tried.

[Duke62]

Got 100c steam at lowest pump speed.

Stick the steam wand into water and see if it violently knocks and bangs due to the steam collapsing.
If it don't, the little steam generator is only blowing steaming hot water.

It blows steam. At the end after the test there was vigorous bubbling and no more water was being absorbed. If I start with a half Gallon+ to accommodate the steam condensing I should have a gallon of boiling water in a shorter time. You may note 100c is steam. It gets up to 110c without the wand. Crude test but that little flash boiler seems to work. As Bolverk points out more watts is always good. This is a small one. I am only looking for steam at a home hobby scale. My power options are limited. The plumbing obviously needs to be improved.

I can boil water for mashing. Although this might be nice for step mashing some rye or barley to add to a bourbon. The real goal here is steam on demand for stilling on a small scale. And maybe cleaning a sink.

[shadylane]

You may note 100c is steam. It gets up to 110c without the wand. Crude test but that little flash boiler seems to work. As Bolverk points out more watts is always good. This is a small one. I am only looking for steam at a home hobby scale. My power options are limited. The plumbing obviously needs to be improved.

Without any restriction between the boiler and outlet, at sea level the steam temp can never exceed 100c.
If it does, the measurement is faulty.

[shadylane]

Here's a possible plumbing mod that would act like a steam dome and return water to the boiler while letting steam pass.

[Duke62]

You may note 100c is steam. It gets up to 110c without the wand. Crude test but that little flash boiler seems to work. As Bolverk points out more watts is always good. This is a small one. I am only looking for steam at a home hobby scale. My power options are limited. The plumbing obviously needs to be improved.

Without any restriction between the boiler and outlet, at sea level the steam temp can never exceed 100c.
If it does, the measurement is faulty.

Correct, thanks for pointing this out. This would indicate @10 lbs of pressure. Not sure if that was water in the line as it settled down or a sensor error. That would explain why it wouldn't hold.

[shadylane]

Yeah don't waste your time or money on this unless you can throw 18kw at this idea... juice aint worth the squeeze.

18kw would pull 75amps @ 240volts.
One thing I'm sure of it's going to be difficult to drive a continuous distillation column on a 120v circuit.
But having said that, if someone wants to try, I'll be watching to see how they do it.

[Bolverk]

Yeah don't waste your time or money on this unless you can throw 18kw at this idea... juice aint worth the squeeze.

18kw would pull 75amps @ 240volts.
One thing I'm sure of it's going to be difficult to drive a continuous distillation column on a 120v circuit.
But having said that, if someone wants to try, I'll be watching to see how they do it.

Yeah, exactly, but that'll give you 1gpm at near boiling

Not difficult, just kinda slow... the juice may not be worth the squeeze. I have been planning a 2" one for a long time, I just have other higher priority projects right now so ive got to allocate funds to those.

[Yummyrum]

That all starting to sound like Commercial Power levels .
Would likely be in a factory setting with three phase power.

LOL , in Australia , most domestic installations have at best a 60Amp single phase 230v supply from the street .

[Duke62]

I appreciate the support. And humor. I am OK with failure as long as I learn something to improve. I am currently using a 8 gallon boiler with a 2" column on 110 now and it works. Slowly. I am hoping this might work a little faster by recycling the BTUs and maybe I can get real lucky and run on the grain. I have a controller laid out to automate the feed. Maybe I will be able to produce enough to let some age properly without living over a still. I am also interested how a continuous unit will affect esterification and flavors.

[shadylane]

If 110v -120v is all that's available then 1,800w is the max safe limit from the receptacle.
That's not enough to power a steam generator used to drive anything but a tiny continuous column.
If your successful due to heat recycling and insulation, figure on a slow drip at best.
The worst part is you might get half of the available alcohol from the wash, the rest will be lost in the bottoms.

Not to sound mean, but it would be better to forget about continuous distillation and insulate the 8 gal boiler and 2" column.

[Bolverk]

If 110v -120v is all that's available then 1,800w is the max safe limit from the receptacle.
That's not enough to power a steam generator used to drive anything but a tiny continuous column.
If your successful due to heat recycling and insulation, figure on a slow drip at best.
The worst part is you might get half of the available alcohol from the wash, the rest will be lost in the bottoms.

Not to sound mean, but it would be better to forget about continuous distillation and insulate the 8 gal boiler and 2" column.

Not sure i agree Shady...

For example my setup is running 8.71 gph at 6kw thats 688 wg/hr (and its definitely not as efficient as it could be). All things being equal in a 2" column at say 1500w, you could run at approximately 2.18 gph (or 138 mL/min), in say a 6 hour period (time it would take for a long plated hybrid run) thats about 12 gals of beer/wine/wash processed. For perspective thats effectively a 15 gal keg setup on half the power (and you can run on grain with the right pump and plates) with less than 1% lost in the effluent... most folks wouldn't be upset about that.