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Awsome!!! Thank you

DenisLemieux wrote:My very first wash is this recipe, I started it on Friday and about 10 minutes after I pitched the yeast it was foaming away fast and furious. Started as 1.086 and after 24 hours it was already down to 1.06. I then decided one wash wasn't going to be enough, so I transferred a beer I had in my primary bucket over to secondary a few days early and put a second sugar wash on. I paid a little more attention to exact amounts of tomato paste and lemon juice on the second wash, SG was 1.082 and after 24 hours down to 1.04!!!! with the first still hovering around 1.06.

Temp of the first wash is around 24 and the second wash is around 32, so I added a heating pad to the first one and added a bit of Amylase Enzyme to it that I use to dry out some of my light brews to make sure it restarted. I find it so weird to be trying to actually heat up my fermentation, I am so used to doing everything in my power to keep it cool. I think it is time to start building a temp control system, with winter coming and the fact that I will likely end up having 6-8 things on the go at once I might have to move some of my buckets to the garage.

All you did was waste those enzymes because there aren't any starches in a Birdwatchers wash to be converted to sugars... Your temperature range is just fine between 24C and 32C... Bakers yeast loves warmth... Better to have too much tomato paste than too little...

My initial guess would be that you are having pH issues... Considering the fact that tomato paste already has citric acid in it you shouldn't need to add any... You could use it to invert your sugar for a slightly improved ferment, however, and that would be neutralized by the time you pitched your yeast... Bring the pH up if it's low and you'll get faster ferments...

rad14701 wrote:All you did was waste those enzymes because there aren't any starches in a Birdwatchers wash to be converted to sugars... Your temperature range is just fine between 24C and 32C... Bakers yeast loves warmth... Better to have too much tomato paste than too little...

My initial guess would be that you are having pH issues... Considering the fact that tomato paste already has citric acid in it you shouldn't need to add any... You could use it to invert your sugar for a slightly improved ferment, however, and that would be neutralized by the time you pitched your yeast... Bring the pH up if it's low and you'll get faster ferments...

Yes after I realized I was using sugar and not malt I realized that there was a difference between beer and a sugar wash, oh well a teaspoon isn't going to kill me. However since adding the little bit of heat it has picked up again, could have been the heat or the PH stabilized. Either way, was down to 1.02 last night. I am thinking there was not quite enough tomato paste, as I was eyeballing it in my first wash and measured it all out with the second.

Either way everything is looking great, I can't get over the difference in smell between this and some of the brews I have done, smells so much better and is an enjoyable smell filling the room.

yup after 10succesfull ferments with this recipe, I think I should cudos

Works a charm, eaasy and everyone can do it.

One of my flatmates is into bread and all that, so she sloves it as she gives me some yeast, and I return it to her about 100 fold lol.

the yeast give the bread a nice taste

Yes, While your wash may have a bit of a red tinge to it
it will IME clear up nicely and does not come through in your
final product

Coyote

I'm going to try BW for a very first mash. I bought a lb of this yeast;
http://www.lallemandbaking.com/products ... s-yeast-2/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Lallemand's Instaferm dry baking yeast. On their web, it says it's good for dough mixes up to 10% sugar content. I'm not sure if that is the same thing as a 10% sugar mash??

Anyone know if it will work ok in BW recipe?

I can get Fleishmanns bakers yeast in a 1 lb block also, but I'm thinking it's about the same as what I just bought, although I couldn't find any info on their product web site.

Spokerider wrote:I'm going to try BW for a very first mash. I bought a lb of this yeast;
http://www.lallemandbaking.com/products ... s-yeast-2/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Lallemand's Instaferm dry baking yeast. On their web, it says it's good for dough mixes up to 10% sugar content. I'm not sure if that is the same thing as a 10% sugar mash??

Anyone know if it will work ok in BW recipe?

I can get Fleishmanns bakers yeast in a 1 lb block also, but I'm thinking it's about the same as what I just bought, although I couldn't find any info on their product web site.

Fleischmann's works fine and is good to well above 14% even though we recommend keeping the potential %ABV at or below that level... I find it somewhat odd that they would market that yeast for bread dough yet call it Instaferm as though subliminally associating it with fermentation... It's also more expensive per pound than Fleischmann's...

Hey I've been running sweet feed with no problems for a little while now and decided to make a batch of Birdwatchers and my ferment has stuck. SG was 1.08. After about a week it had barely gone down, around 1.07 or .06 so I added more yeast and around a week later it was 1.05, I added more yeast AGAIN and now it's been 3 weeks from the start and it's at around 1.03 with no activity. I made a 25 liter wash. Used the calculator here (http://shuggo.com/birdwatchers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow) to get the recipe. I didn't use epsom salts and I pitched just one packet of champagne yeast originally. Any idea what could be going on? I use the same yeast for my sweet feed washes and they're done fermenting in 5 or 6 days usually.

Humm, should only take about a week, what temp is your wash? I have 2 batches of birdwatchers going right now, started sunday looking like they'll be done by this sunday or monday. Then I'll let them settle till the next saturday and fire up the still. The only time I ever had trouble with birdwatchers was over pretty cold temps.

jackfiasco wrote:Hey I've been running sweet feed with no problems for a little while now and decided to make a batch of Birdwatchers and my ferment has stuck. SG was 1.08. After about a week it had barely gone down, around 1.07 or .06 so I added more yeast and around a week later it was 1.05, I added more yeast AGAIN and now it's been 3 weeks from the start and it's at around 1.03 with no activity. I made a 25 liter wash. Used the calculator here (http://shuggo.com/birdwatchers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow) to get the recipe. I didn't use epsom salts and I pitched just one packet of champagne yeast originally. Any idea what could be going on? I use the same yeast for my sweet feed washes and they're done fermenting in 5 or 6 days usually.

The main reasons for slow or stalled ferments are temperature too low, lack of nutrients, or pH too low... A less likely reason would be bad yeast...

For others who are interested in this yeast, it ferments BW wash at 10% ABV well. I have tried it.

rad14701 wrote:

Spokerider wrote:I'm going to try BW for a very first mash. I bought a lb of this yeast;
http://www.lallemandbaking.com/products ... s-yeast-2/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Lallemand's Instaferm dry baking yeast. On their web, it says it's good for dough mixes up to 10% sugar content. I'm not sure if that is the same thing as a 10% sugar mash??

Anyone know if it will work ok in BW recipe?

I can get Fleishmanns bakers yeast in a 1 lb block also, but I'm thinking it's about the same as what I just bought, although I couldn't find any info on their product web site.

Fleischmann's works fine and is good to well above 14% even though we recommend keeping the potential %ABV at or below that level... I find it somewhat odd that they would market that yeast for bread dough yet call it Instaferm as though subliminally associating it with fermentation... It's also more expensive per pound than Fleischmann's...

Hello.
Thanks to all for a truly amazing site and resource.
Previous experience with Turbo's which I want to move away from.
Read the whole topic over a few days and got a bit overwhelmed. In the end I jumped in and have just put down my first try.
I live in Far North Qld Australia and thought I would post my process, attempt and the ingredients I used for people in my area who are a bit nervous about jumping in.
Results will follow..... Fingers crossed as it's a bit hot coming into summer. Hopefully result will be good.

Luke777 Birdwatcher Wash attempt 001
29/10/2013
Room temp 31 deg C
Total wash volume 53 litres

INGREDIENTS:
10kg white "Coles" sugar
1 1/2 jars (375 gram) Leggos Organic tomato paste
1/2 tsp Epsom Salts
Strained juice of 2 x lemons (not very juicy)
1/3 tin "LOWAN" instant dried yeast in red cylindrical tin

PROCESS:

-> Cleaned and rinsed everything and laid it all out ready
-> combined Tom paste,Lemon juice and Epsom Salts with 2 litres warm water and mixed well
-> 5 litres cold water in fermenter bin
-> Boiled large pot water (about 4-5 litres) and poured into bin
-> Added 8kg (4 bags) sugar and stirred till mostly dissolved
-> put bin where it would stay and added tap water till 40 litre mark
-> Added tom paste mix (nutrient mix)
-> Added 1 kg sugar and stirred vigorously till all dissolved
-> Added water to 45 litre mark
-> Add last kilo sugar and mix vigorously 'till dissolved
-> Checked SG which was high
-> Added tap water incrementally till SG was 1.072
-> total 53 litres of WASH
-> Check SG- 1.072
-> Wash was close to room temp (in this case 31 deg C) sprinkled yeast on top
-> lid loosely on bin
-> Wait and see

To all of you who are more experienced than me (99% of you ) Please let me know if you see any obvious errors in my process or ingredients.
I am now going to make a Pot Still head for my Still ( Untill now I have never done stripping runs) ready for when the wash is finished.
Wish me luck!!

P.S. Any Fellow distillers in my area feel free to P.M. me and give me advice!

Luke

It was 40 mins since I tossed the yeast and I went out to see if anything had started.
I found this:
So by the looks of it something is starting and quickly!

Hopefully the hot weather does not cause problems as the ferment progresses.... Only time will tell.

EDIT For progressive notes:

24 hrs SG -> 1.062

Hi luke777,
Like you i am in oz only down south.
i have been doing this recipe for a while now and have posted my process earlier this year it is much the same as yours but i do mine in 27 litre batches, i use 6 kg. sugar dissolved all at once in around 12 litres hot tap water then i add the paste and Epsom salts together dissolved in around 1 litre of hot water i then add cold water to a total of 27 litres before adding ascorbic acid or lemon juice (it is better if you don't put the acid in while it's too hot around 26-30 deg. c.) then the yeast on top and not mixed in. The difference between the two is i use 140 grams of tomato paste and 1/3 of a tin of the same yeast in 27 litres, considering your volume is double what i do there is a bit of difference in the quantity of paste and yeast what difference that would make i don't know but it is always said the least nutrients the better.

Regards
Braemar

Ps Your photo is just the way it should look
Braemar

Yep, those are yappy heasts!

good day,

OK, I will give this a go and try to scale it down;

roughly 20 litres
about 5kg ordinary sugar,
a cup of tomato paste
a small cup of lime juice (no lemons, I'm a limey ferchrissakes)
75kg fresh bakers yeast

Just sterilising my bucket now, I might throw in some yeast nutrient - a DAP and vitamin mix.
Peteturbo

edit; 22 litres, sg 1.09, 32 degrees. pitched yeast. 10:00hrs, 6 Nov 2013
edit; 7 Nov 18:00hrs sg 1.06, temp; 29.9 degrees. I am NOT going to stir it - its fermenting fast - i stirred it almost continuously for the first 5 hours, so lets have alcohol, not yeasties.

peteturbo wrote:good day,

OK, I will give this a go and try to scale it down;

roughly 20 litres
about 5kg ordinary sugar,
a cup of tomato paste
a small cup of lime juice (no lemons, I'm a limey ferchrissakes)
75kg fresh bakers yeast

Just sterilising my bucket now, I might throw in some yeast nutrient - a DAP and vitamin mix.

IMG01658-20131105-2023.jpg

Peteturbo

edit; 22 litres, sg 1.09, 32 degrees. pitched yeast. 10:00hrs, 6 Nov 2013

no need to use dap or other nutrients thats what the tomato paste is for

rgr. now fermenting madly.
edit; 8 Nov lunch time sg 1.045, temp 29.5 degrees.
edit; 9 nov evening, sg 1.04, temp 27.

it was quite difficult digging hrough 75kg of yeats to find the bucket!

peteturbo wrote:good day,

OK, I will give this a go and try to scale it down;

roughly 20 litres
about 5kg ordinary sugar,
a cup of tomato paste
a small cup of lime juice (no lemons, I'm a limey ferchrissakes)
75kg fresh bakers yeast

Just sterilising my bucket now, I might throw in some yeast nutrient - a DAP and vitamin mix.

IMG01658-20131105-2023.jpg

Peteturbo

edit; 22 litres, sg 1.09, 32 degrees. pitched yeast. 10:00hrs, 6 Nov 2013
edit; 7 Nov 18:00hrs sg 1.06, temp; 29.9 degrees. I am NOT going to stir it - its fermenting fast - i stirred it almost continuously for the first 5 hours, so lets have alcohol, not yeasties.

I was just sat here wondering what would happen if you did actually put 75kg of yeast in

I imagine you really mean 75g

I made myself a batch of 24l of this last week and must say that so far I am well impressed by the fermentation so far - I am using a 11w energy efficient bulb inside a polystyrene box on top of a 25l bucket with airlocked lid and it seems to be happily bubbling along. I will let you know the outcome once it has stopped fermenting and settled down. I am also awaiting for a trial batch of the all-bran recipe which although I followed the instructions seems to be a very slow fermenter - perhaps it needs more heat also.

In using the Birdwatchers Calculator: http://shuggo.com/birdwatchers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow,
At the bottom it says; "As a helpful hint, don't add all the sugar at once, this is just the MAXIMUM amount you'll need." I am not seeing this addressed as a common practice. So, in a 25L batch, how much sugar would I hold out and when should it be added? I will assume that when I dissolve the sugar in hot water, I would pull out a liter or two, and not fill the bucket completely, then at a certain point, add the remaining sugar/water mixture. ??? A little clarification would be appreciated! Thanks

FlyboyTR wrote:In using the Birdwatchers Calculator: http://shuggo.com/birdwatchers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow,
At the bottom it says; "As a helpful hint, don't add all the sugar at once, this is just the MAXIMUM amount you'll need." I am not seeing this addressed as a common practice. So, in a 25L batch, how much sugar would I hold out and when should it be added? I will assume that when I dissolve the sugar in hot water, I would pull out a liter or two, and not fill the bucket completely, then at a certain point, add the remaining sugar/water mixture. ??? A little clarification would be appreciated! Thanks

That is one aspect of the recipe that is not accurate... Add all of the sugar at the start... Stepped additions is not all that common and can cause problems... The practice is only good for high gravity washes which are frowned upon here... You can add all the sugar up to the maximum recommended 14% right from the get go... I've had 14% batches of this recipe ferment to dry in 3 - 4 days so why would I want stepped additions...???

NissedasaPewt wrote:I made myself a batch of 24l of this last week and must say that so far I am well impressed by the fermentation so far - I am using a 11w energy efficient bulb inside a polystyrene box on top of a 25l bucket with airlocked lid and it seems to be happily bubbling along. I will let you know the outcome once it has stopped fermenting and settled down. I am also awaiting for a trial batch of the all-bran recipe which although I followed the instructions seems to be a very slow fermenter - perhaps it needs more heat also.

I've never had a slow All Bran ferment... What temperature are you fermenting at...??? Most yeasts do best with a temperature in the 75F/24C - 85F/30C range...

i have never had a BW finish in less than 2 weeks.

rad14701 wrote:

FlyboyTR wrote:In using the Birdwatchers Calculator: http://shuggo.com/birdwatchers/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow,
At the bottom it says; "As a helpful hint, don't add all the sugar at once, this is just the MAXIMUM amount you'll need." I am not seeing this addressed as a common practice. So, in a 25L batch, how much sugar would I hold out and when should it be added? I will assume that when I dissolve the sugar in hot water, I would pull out a liter or two, and not fill the bucket completely, then at a certain point, add the remaining sugar/water mixture. ??? A little clarification would be appreciated! Thanks

That is one aspect of the recipe that is not accurate... Add all of the sugar at the start... Stepped additions is not all that common and can cause problems... The practice is only good for high gravity washes which are frowned upon here... You can add all the sugar up to the maximum recommended 14% right from the get go... I've had 14% batches of this recipe ferment to dry in 3 - 4 days so why would I want stepped additions...???

Rad,
Thanks for the clarification. I had never seen the calculator until this afternoon. I thought it seemed a bit extreme for a 14% wash. Thanks again!

maritime wrote:i have never had a BW finish in less than 2 weeks.

The only ferments I've ever had take longer then a week. Were mead ferments.

Do other recipes take that long for you? What temps do you ferment at? What yeast are you using? What potential ABV are you trying for? Are you making a yeast starter. Pitching dry? Or just rehydrateing it?

13th nov, 1.025 and 29 degreees. typical slowing of ferment and worry about stuckness

Leave it to ferment out, may take longer than you expected, I had the same thing when I started out, took about a month before I had my first birdwatchers ready.

peteturbo wrote:13th nov, 1.025 and 29 degreees. typical slowing of ferment and worry about stuckness

You are only 6 days in. So I wouldn't worry about it. Just let it ferment. And leave it alone. Sit on your hands and don't mess with it.