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rad14701 wrote:

Cmdte wrote:Im reading and wondering if Im planning on building the circuit for a 240v, 4500 watt heating element to use on my 50 l beer keg, using the TRIAC BTA26-700B what is the wire gauge I have to use on the circuit to wire all this, do I have to use the same wire thickness as the one on the 240v line ?

Thanks.

Blue wires are high load... Red wires are for the control circuit and are low load so thinner wire can be used...

Thought about that but I wasnt sure, thanks for making it clear.

Cmdte wrote:Im reading and wondering if Im planning on building the circuit for a 240v, 4500 watt heating element to use on my 50 l beer keg, using the TRIAC BTA26-700B what is the wire gauge I have to use on the circuit to wire all this, do I have to use the same wire thickness as the one on the 240v line ?

Thanks.

For blue and brown wires I'd recommend 12AWG wires. Red wires can be much thinner.

sambedded wrote:

Cmdte wrote:Im reading and wondering if Im planning on building the circuit for a 240v, 4500 watt heating element to use on my 50 l beer keg, using the TRIAC BTA26-700B what is the wire gauge I have to use on the circuit to wire all this, do I have to use the same wire thickness as the one on the 240v line ?

Thanks.

For blue and brown wires I'd recommend 12AWG wires. Red wires can be much thinner.

Alright, thanks.

Cant seem to find the ceramic capacitor, is this any good ?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/100pcs-0-1uF-104 ... 400wt_1392" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Cmdte wrote:Cant seem to find the ceramic capacitor, is this any good ?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/100pcs-0-1uF-104 ... 400wt_1392" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Nope, they are rated 50v but you need 400v

sambedded wrote:

Cmdte wrote:Cant seem to find the ceramic capacitor, is this any good ?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/100pcs-0-1uF-104 ... 400wt_1392" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Nope, they are rated 50v but you need 400v

Really, even if the line is getting 240v ?

Edit: The info on the capacitor doesnt seem to be right, the guy at the e-store says ''0.1 mkF @ 400volts'' mkF does not make sense. 0.1 uF or pF or nF maybe ?

I received an order that had those tiny capacitors instead of what I wanted and they did not work at all for their intended purpose... I ended up sourcing my capacitors locally instead of trying to get them replaced... You want something larger in physical size, similar to the ones you see in other controller designs...

rad14701 wrote:I received an order that had those tiny capacitors instead of what I wanted and they did not work at all for their intended purpose... I ended up sourcing my capacitors locally instead of trying to get them replaced... You want something larger in physical size, similar to the ones you see in other controller designs...

Yeah, I know what you mean, but I have no idea the one we see in other controller designs, can you point me inthe right direction here ? also, do I need 0.1 uf , 400 volts ? or can it be: 1.0 uf 400v ?

Cmdte wrote:

rad14701 wrote:I received an order that had those tiny capacitors instead of what I wanted and they did not work at all for their intended purpose... I ended up sourcing my capacitors locally instead of trying to get them replaced... You want something larger in physical size, similar to the ones you see in other controller designs...

Yeah, I know what you mean, but I have no idea the one we see in other controller designs, can you point me inthe right direction here ? also, do I need 0.1 uf , 400 volts ? or can it be: 1.0 uf 400v ?

It must be .1uf, NOT 1.0uf... There is quite a timing difference between the two in these circuits... For a 240V controller you should use 400V rated capacitors...

rad14701 wrote:

Cmdte wrote:

rad14701 wrote:I received an order that had those tiny capacitors instead of what I wanted and they did not work at all for their intended purpose... I ended up sourcing my capacitors locally instead of trying to get them replaced... You want something larger in physical size, similar to the ones you see in other controller designs...

Yeah, I know what you mean, but I have no idea the one we see in other controller designs, can you point me inthe right direction here ? also, do I need 0.1 uf , 400 volts ? or can it be: 1.0 uf 400v ?

It must be .1uf, NOT 1.0uf... There is quite a timing difference between the two in these circuits... For a 240V controller you should use 400V rated capacitors...

Sorry to ask too many details but I just wanna be sure I order all the right components. Thanks.

sambedded wrote:

Cmdte wrote:Cant seem to find the ceramic capacitor, is this any good ?
Nope, they are rated 50v but you need 400v

Cant seem to find the ceramic capacitor, is this any good ?
Nope, they are rated 50v but you need 400v

Ups... why 400?
Voltage at capacitor never be more then 40v because DB3 opens triac when at capacitor will be 36-38v . After opening of triac, voltage at capacitor goes to zero. Capacitor 0.1uf 50v will be good for this.

You are right. 50V capacitor should be OK. My bad.

In my opinion based on years of experience working with these devices you cant beat the smooth non cycling control of the (variable ac transformer) Variac TM and Auto-transformer TM are both registered trade marks (These are not variable resisters) they come in all shapes sizes phases ampacity. If you buy them new they are expensive but if you go to thrift stores surplus sales or just put the word out that you need one or some over time you will have some. I have several 15 20 and 30 amp. For heating element they are perfect you wont be adjusting them much once you got them set no cycling what so ever and you can dial temp like down town. In fact companies like DuPont in their chem labs use these specifically for there heating baskets for the reaction flasks where temp control is the utmost important. They are not good for cycling heavy loads because they are not regulated. Heavy sudden load you get a voltage drop then tries to recover. If you understand how a transformer works . it simply is the ratio number of winding between the primary and secondary in most cases around an iron core.( the size of the conductors and the size of the core define current and other particulars) but for the basic voltage step up or voltage step down is simply the ratio of winding directly. Just for learning lets say you have a transformer with 100 winding on the primary and two hundred on the secondary and the the supply voltage is 100 volts input. Well the secondary would be 200 volts out a step up. Directly proportional.
the variable ac transformer is simply a circular iron core and the primary and secondary are wound around each other. And typically the same number of wingdings for both. The difference is that the secondary winding is flattened and the vinyl coating removed and a carbon brush or wiper is attached to the knob the brush can contact winding one as you turn it winding two and so on making is whatever voltage in but completely variable from winding one to the last winding I think they are kinda cool
but the best thing for heating is there is no cycling like a stove top temp controllers or thermostat. Here are some in and out of the cases

Gentlemen, Ive been from one end of this thread to the other. It's taken most of the day. I've made some careful notes and saved quite a bit of the info. I googled "How to build an Electric Still". THis came up and seems to be about the cheapest and most complete (for dummies like me) to fire the pot. I ran my first batch with propane and keeping the temp and flow uniform was a challenge at best. I don't think it'll be cheaper to run with propane anyway. Elements are cheap and so are the other electrical components. Cheers!
http://www.scribd.com/doc/51760792/How- ... tric-Still" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Im not an electrician and cant build by schematics i was wondering if this item would work for a 1500w element. i only have regular 110 house plugs to work with and this looks pretty good just dont know anything about heating with electric i use a turkey fryer for heat at the moment but would like to switch to electric.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lindco-Power-Co ... 35bf8958fa" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

jholmz wrote:Im not an electrician and cant build by schematics i was wondering if this item would work for a 1500w element. i only have regular 110 house plugs to work with and this looks pretty good just dont know anything about heating with electric i use a turkey fryer for heat at the moment but would like to switch to electric.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lindco-Power-Co ... 35bf8958fa" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Brother, I think 10amps as the controller is is rated falls about 500 watts short of running your element. Slap me down if I'm wrong. I'm not wise to many specifics on formulas and running stills, but amps and watt draw are pretty easy.

Anyone tried this method yet? I'm considering using a 1500w element on a 5 gallon SS pot. Would rather use electric instead of gas since I'm indoors.

Also, can a copper female threaded fitting just be soldered into the side of the pot to house the element?

I'm not very good with electrical stuff so I'm trying to KISS method. Otherwise I'm more worried about frying myself than making good shine. Wish I could just buy a reliable system already build!

mildly fanatical wrote:It seems to me there may be an easier way to control your temperature , the same way most industrial machines do it ,using electronic's designed for the job

there are a wide range of digital temperature controllers available for a reasonable price
here is an example

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100V-240V-PID-D ... 4abbc1f52a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

hook this up with a solid state relay turning your element on and off and you have precise temperature control

you can place the thermocouple where your thermometer would normally go and your still is automatic

set your parameters to preheat at a given time

has an alarm function you can use to turn on a second element if temperature is more than x-amount below desired level

if you want to get more accurate buy a unit that can set the temp to 0.1 of a deg and use a variable control SSR (4-20 ma control ) ,that way when your temperature is low element comes on at full power and as it nears it's set point it will run the element at a fraction of it's reted output power.

you dont want to control the temp of the boiler you want to control the POWER your putting into the boiler

if you dont want to buy the PSR-25 get one of these

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/140730716566 ... 1423.l2649" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

then
get a PC cooling fan and a 5V power supply for the fan (phone charger etc)
get a box to put it in

total cost will be about $30 max if you scrounge around

wire it up and your away

That simply? Really? Wow, over thought this.

Just use a cord rated for the proper amperage, and make sure it's a 3 prong one right? Ground the cord to the boiler? Figured I'd just use a hose clamp around the copper female end to ground with.

What size wire should I use for my hot? Looks like with the eBay one I'll need to make a small extension. 1500w element that is.

How does this one sound: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-KYOTTO-AC-S ... 20b9aba410" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow and of course heatsink.
Has anyone tried it? When using these controllers do you use filter of some kind, EMI or RFI or what ever they are called?

Burks wrote:Anyone tried this method yet? I'm considering using a 1500w element on a 5 gallon SS pot. Would rather use electric instead of gas since I'm indoors.

Also, can a copper female threaded fitting just be soldered into the side of the pot to house the element?

[/quote]

Thats what I did, the 4500w heating element I got from an old water heater I found on the street was longer that the keg diameter, so I soldered a female threaded (2.5 in long) fitting on the bottom side of the keg and it worked great, at full power it boils 40L of wash in about 25 to 30 mins

Heres a pic:

Is there any difference between running a psr with 250k 2w pot as opposed to the cheaper route of running a VR-SSR with 500k 2w (specifed) pot?

I guess I'm gonna need to build an electric pot now....lol

maheel wrote:you dont want to control the temp of the boiler you want to control the POWER your putting into the boiler

if you dont want to buy the PSR-25 get one of these

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/140730716566 ... 1423.l2649" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

then
get a PC cooling fan and a 5V power supply for the fan (phone charger etc)
get a box to put it in

total cost will be about $30 max if you scrounge around

wire it up and your away

maheel,

That was the unit I was planning on using when I build my Keg Still. I was planning on building a box with two Volt/Amp Meters for both the input and output. I hadn't thought about the fan, that should be easy enough to add into the system. Do you happen to have a schematic of how you wired yours up?

RR

"I was planning on building a box with two Volt/Amp Meters for both the input and output."


Only use one ammeter. Amps in = amps out, the analogy I use is that it like water flow. You but 5 gal/min in, 5 gal/min will come out. So it doesn't matter if you read amps going in or coming out.

Volt meters are a different story. The water analogy is that voltage is like pressure. Your control device is like a throttle valve. So a volt meter on the input would always show 220 (or 110). Coming out of the control, you would see the lower voltage that is going to the heater element. IMO just use the ammeter. KISS method.

Theo wrote:"I was planning on building a box with two Volt/Amp Meters for both the input and output."


Only use one ammeter. Amps in = amps out, the analogy I use is that it like water flow. You but 5 gal/min in, 5 gal/min will come out. So it doesn't matter if you read amps going in or coming out.

Volt meters are a different story. The water analogy is that voltage is like pressure. Your control device is like a throttle valve. So a volt meter on the input would always show 220 (or 110). Coming out of the control, you would see the lower voltage that is going to the heater element. IMO just use the ammeter. KISS method.

Theo,

Thank you for the input. My plan was to use Digital Gauges that had both Volts & Amps. My thought was to monitor incoming to make sure the power was constant in case there were power fluctuations if I moved the location, but honestly you're probably right not really any need to measure input power. One less gauge to buy

RR

The ammeter will fluctuate as the incoming voltage changes. Your choice, some people want more bells & whistles.

Enjoy!

After nearly two years of wanting to go electric, I finally got around to assembling my electric controller and plan on drilling the keg for the element tomorrow. I do have a couple questions though.
In all the diagrams I have seen the wires to the Pot go to the middle one and one outside tab. The other outside tab appears to be connected to the middle one as seen in this diagram.
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u328 ... 3da3d4.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

However, after doing this I went back and read some threads I had saved regarding the topic and see that Mulekicker said to cut off the extra tab on the Pot. Am I okay attaching this extra outside tab to the middle one in this fashion, or should I redo it?
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u328 ... 07_864.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Here is the entire setup. I used a 25amp breaker in the controller because I will be running it off a circuit that is wired for a higher amperage welder. I left plenty of room on the control box to install an amp meter if needed.
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u328 ... 34_931.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Here is a photo of the inside: (note I only had red 10gauge wire so I used it where white should have been used) If anyone sees a problem with this please let me know.
http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u328 ... 47_920.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

The other question is I purchased a 5500w element to use with this because all of my reading said it would support it, but have started wondering if I should be running a 4500w to avoid maxing out my controller and extending its life.

Am I okay attaching this extra outside tab to the middle one in this fashion, or should I redo it?

Cut it off, dont use it.

but have started wondering if I should be running a 4500w to avoid maxing out my controller and extending its life.

That thing will run forever on 5500w. Heatsink may need to be bigger, or use a fan. Just monitor the temp while running.

Pyewacket wrote:It has taken a while to read through this post. I have decided on Panda's SSR plan with the following purchased from uxcell:

a11052300ux0061 85L1 AC 0-250V Rectangle Analog Volt Panel Meter Gauge 1
a11062400ux0101 Solid State Relay SSR Voltage Resistance Regulator 40A 24-380V AC + Heat Sink 1
a11121400ux0233 Replacement 6mm Shaft Dia 470K Ohm 2W Pots Potentiometer w Knob 1

I would like to put a fan as part of this circuit. I found the following for 10bucks.
Dimensions: 80mm x 80mm x 25mm
Fan Speed: 2300-2700rpm
Air Flow: 24 CFM
Noise Level: 33 dBA
Bearing Type: sleeve Bearing
Rated Voltage: 220V AC
Power Consumption: 11 W
Power Connector: 2PIN

This appears to be an easy thing to do since it is a 220V fan. Would you folks recommend this? Is there a better/easier way? If this makes sense, where would you place it within Panda's schematic? Is there any other component that should be included to do this properly?

Thanks

I just finished testing one of these that I built using the parts from uxcell. I did put in the fan as mine is inside a NEMA 4 box I got a Lowes. I also added the Volt meter which also works perfect. It works FANTASTIC! I am not sure why I waited so long to do this. THANKS to the folks here that put out these designs, find these parts and share thier knowledge and info. Hopefully someday I can pay it back or pay it forward.
B.S.