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Odin wrote:There is multiple ways to handle this. Yes, macerating for a longer time is good. But for a short time and then distilling with herbs & berries in the boiler gives of more complex tastes. But if you can't do that (e.d. electrical element in boiler), macerate for a longer time. Yes, if you do that, you might want to decide to lower the amount of berries. Depends on the kind. Sorry, no straight forward answer. The fresh ones are fine. The ones you can crush between your fingers and even some oil gets out. Often the ones you buy are harder, dry. Those have more tanines to come over. In that case: don't crush, if you macerate for a longer time.

But if you can find ways to have berries & herbs in the boiler that would be perfect. Crush, macerate 12 to 24 hours, distill.

You thought taste was to strong and filtered herbs & berries out. Not necesairy. Yes, you may get over too many oils. And a cloudy drink when diluted to 45%. That means you were - in my opinion - not failing. You just got over too many tasty oils. Solution (litteraly): add 45% neutral (or 45% whiskey) until the haze disapears (at room temperature).

Often that means adding as much neutral/whiskey as you already had that base gin/genever. What you get like that? Maximum taste concentration in your gin or genever.

Odin

what effect does

(e.d. electrical element in boiler ) have on the distillation

my boiler has an element in it and I distill my maceration

last run for the very first time I got a small amount of cloud and the flavour profile was different from the last time

this time I did and a half batch and thought i had been sloppy with the measurement , just decided to do full batches next time

The only real difference running an electrical elements is that you can burn herbs or grains on them. Clouding in gin can mean you didn't take a first small cut for first juniper oils. Or you ran too long. Or you added lots of berries & herbs or macerated for a longer period. No problem. Just add some neutral.

Odin.

Odin wrote:There is multiple ways to handle this. Yes, macerating for a longer time is good. But for a short time and then distilling with herbs & berries in the boiler gives of more complex tastes. But if you can't do that (e.d. electrical element in boiler), macerate for a longer time. Yes, if you do that, you might want to decide to lower the amount of berries. Depends on the kind. Sorry, no straight forward answer. The fresh ones are fine. The ones you can crush between your fingers and even some oil gets out. Often the ones you buy are harder, dry. Those have more tanines to come over. In that case: don't crush, if you macerate for a longer time.

But if you can find ways to have berries & herbs in the boiler that would be perfect. Crush, macerate 12 to 24 hours, distill.

You thought taste was to strong and filtered herbs & berries out. Not necesairy. Yes, you may get over too many oils. And a cloudy drink when diluted to 45%. That means you were - in my opinion - not failing. You just got over too many tasty oils. Solution (litteraly): add 45% neutral (or 45% whiskey) until the haze disapears (at room temperature).

Often that means adding as much neutral/whiskey as you already had that base gin/genever. What you get like that? Maximum taste concentration in your gin or genever.


Odin

Sorry for the late response. I have been a few days away from civilization.
First of all, you were right. I had to many tasty oils in the final product. I add 50% neutral and the gin got really clear with a lighter and smoother taste.
I must say that I am starting to feel a bit satisfied with the outcome. The gin produced is nice (not the best but certainly a very good start).Good enough for a the first gin-tonics!

For the next exercise I will macerate for 8 hours (with 1/3 of the initial berries) and leave all the botanics in the boiler. I use propane to heat up my still and therefore I have no problem with so ever. I will give it a go and get back.

By the way, should I try to give it a stronger "lemon taste", would it be reasonable to vapour infuse the outcome just with lemon and may other refreshing herbs? -
I mean, taking the gin at 40º, and redistill getting the vapor infused through a herb bag...

Best

J.

That's a possibility, J. You can also cut a few lemons in quarts and add them to the maceration, while leaving them in the boiler when distilling.

Odin

olddog wrote:I just load my boiler with 25lts of fermented sugar wash, sugar/ tomato paste / lemon juice & water, put your bag of herbs in the neck of the boiler and distill. what comes out of your condenser is gin.

With many botanical flavors coming early, don't you lose a lot of flavor in the heads starting from a wash?

Of all the recipes here, I'm most interested in trying this one first, but I don't want to start from a wash. I'm planning to dilute 1 gallon of neutral to 40% and ensure the botanicals are in the vapor path. Collect in jars, but hopefully keeping the first half gallon or so (after discarding 50 mL for juniper oils) before the botanicals start making things bitter. My only question is, does the amount of botanicals change because of the different boiler charge? My thought process leaves me torn...I was thinking a more pure vapor would strip the botanicals more quickly, so less would be needed, but then having to add more water to dilute to drinking strength may keep that from making a difference. However, if the vapors pull off at the same rate, regardless of output strength, increased dilution at the end will make a weaker flavor without more botanicals. I suppose that I can give it a shot, and if I think it is too weak, I can run it again with more botanicals, especially if I've already diluted it to drinking strength.

Shae, your approach is sound. Make cuts on your neutral. Dilute. Then do the gin run. Lower abv is better, since it will mean more taste concentration in the end product. Not talking in general here, but refering to OD's Flute and a basket of herbs just under the column.

OD's gin must be very good though. His wife is Dutch. And when he set out to make gin, his mss told him - being Dutch - she wanted a genever, not a gin.

What I understood is that mss-OD was (and probably still is) very pleased with OD's attempts at gin making.

Odin.

Sounds good...I'll stick with the original amounts of botanicals. I've made a large quantity of sugar wash so I can have a good amount of hearts for trying different things.

I finally got around to making some gin this weekend. I picked and chose bits of several recipes to give it my own flair. Here's what I came up with:

4 Tbsp juniper berries
4 almonds
Zest of 2 sweetheart oranges (about a Tbsp)
Zest of 1 lime (about 1/2 Tbsp)
1/2 Tbsp angelica root
1 tsp Orris root
1/2 star anise (3 arms)
1/2 tsp ground coriander
about 1" cinnamon stick
1/2 tsp ground ginger
2 black peppercorns
1/4 tsp cardamom
1 kaffir lime leaf

1 gallon 80% diluted to 40%, everything but the zest ground together, then mixed with zest and suspended in the vapor path. Discarded first 75 mL as juniper oils. Kept 50% of original spirit volume. The flavor right now is really interesting. The juniper berries hit immediately, then the flavor quickly transitions to the cardamom (I would use half next time), and the aftertaste is the citrus blend. I don't think the ginger contributed anything; I'd try fresh next time, and if it is undetectable, leave it out after that. While the other botanicals are pretty subtle, I have a feeling they contributed to the balance of the flavors. Maybe after some aging, the other, more subtle notes will come out.

The only problem I encountered is that after diluted to about 40%, the gin gets cloudy when it gets icy cold. Fridge/room temp is crystal clear...so I might take off double the oil cut in the beginning. With that much citrus zest and juniper berries, it all clearly didn't come out in the first 75 ml.

I did a gin recently also, Bombay copy similar to yours. I diluted to around 40% and didn't taste right, then realised Bombay IS 48%!, did some.at 48% and it's a totally different drink, very near Bombay, maybe a bit more fruity, that should tame down with age I hope. I didnt seem to get much oil?, i use a.bubbler, dunno if that helps?. Also found out on the weekend, I was making a stifry and needed rice wine, didn't have any, quick google and found that gin is the nearest substitute for rice wine!, worked well!. just in case anyone wants rice wine .

Not sure why this thread died out. It's great! I'd love to see some of the gin recipes y'all been working on in the past couple years!

When I started making gin I wanted to get pretty close to the flavor profile of my favorite brand, a small distillery in Chicago called Letherbee. It tastes (to me) like creamy lavender gin. So I do

40g Juniper Berries
10g Coriander (Too overpowering, I'm going to start cutting back like Odin)
8g Fresh Lavender
4g Fresh Rosemary
5g Cardamom
2g Cubeb Berries
2g Grains of Paradise
2g Star Anise
2g Fennel Seeds
2g Angelica Root
2g Orris Root
2g Wild Cherry Bark
1 Nutmeg
1 Cinnamon Stick
Zest of one lemon

Originally I also added fresh sage, mint, and cilantro; and almonds. But I didn't really taste any of those ingredients and I was out of them last night when running it so I omitted them.

I do all the botanicals crushed up in a blender and then in the vapor path in a cotton bag. Some flavors come through much better than others this way. The main issue I am having is I don't taste any of the fresh ingredients really (rosemary, lavender, mint, etc). So next time I will try macerating that stuff first. I'd also like to add cucumber like someone else posted. I think that would also benefit from macerating and not so much being in the vapor path.

Hendrick's makes two gins, one vapor infused, and one macerated then distilled, blends them together, and then adds cucumber and rose essences to the final product. This is something I'd like to experiment with. I think I'll add a couple drops of rosewater and or orange blossom water to this batch and see how it goes.

Jack

Oh and I know that a gin and tonic is "the" gin drink. But I really don't understand the appeal. I've never liked tonic but even if I did, spending all this time and work to perfect your craft gin only to dump tonic in it would be like perfecting a great bourbon only to mix it with coke. My gin loving friends and I all drink gin and sodas, with lemon, not lime. I love me some lime, especially when drinking tequila, but we all find that lemon compliments gin SO much better. Y'all should give it a try!

There are some really nice new tonics around now, elderflower is great and not as bitter as traditional ones.

jackfiasco wrote:Not sure why this thread died out. It's great! I'd love to see some of the gin recipes y'all been working on in the past couple years!

I agree.

This one may be an acquired taste. Not your typical gin, but one I enjoy.

Note
- I normalize my recipes to grams of botanical per liter of 43% base spirit
- my base spirit is a reasonably clean cut UJ sugar head, usually aged on oak for 3+ months
- the grain is macerated at aging strength for at least 2 weeks prior to botanical maceration
- I macerate botanicals for less than a day at between 43% and 50% abv
- everything goes in the boiler, except for fruit peels, which i remove
- I dilute to 27 to 30% abv and run in a mini pot still

6g Juniper
3g Coriander
1.3g St Johns Wort
0.6g Fennel
0.5g Cardamom
0.4g Lemon Peel
0.2g Dried Orange Peel
0.2g Orris Root
0.2g Angelica Root
0.5 cup of crystal malt 120

- Run is kind of slow. With the grain in the boiler you will tend to puke.
- Toss first 10-20ml
- I age for a month with a bit of toasted oak at distilled strength (typically around 60%), then dilute to around 43% for the rest.

My thanks to Odin for the inspiration to mess around with this.

jackfiasco wrote:Not sure why this thread died out. It's great! I'd love to see some of the gin recipes y'all been working on in the past couple years!

When I started making gin I wanted to get pretty close to the flavor profile of my favorite brand, a small distillery in Chicago called Letherbee. It tastes (to me) like creamy lavender gin. So I do

40g Juniper Berries
10g Coriander (Too overpowering, I'm going to start cutting back like Odin)
8g Fresh Lavender
4g Fresh Rosemary
5g Cardamom
2g Cubeb Berries
2g Grains of Paradise
2g Star Anise
2g Fennel Seeds
2g Angelica Root
2g Orris Root
2g Wild Cherry Bark
1 Nutmeg
1 Cinnamon Stick
Zest of one lemon

Originally I also added fresh sage, mint, and cilantro; and almonds. But I didn't really taste any of those ingredients and I was out of them last night when running it so I omitted them.

I do all the botanicals crushed up in a blender and then in the vapor path in a cotton bag. Some flavors come through much better than others this way. The main issue I am having is I don't taste any of the fresh ingredients really (rosemary, lavender, mint, etc). So next time I will try macerating that stuff first. I'd also like to add cucumber like someone else posted. I think that would also benefit from macerating and not so much being in the vapor path.

Hendrick's makes two gins, one vapor infused, and one macerated then distilled, blends them together, and then adds cucumber and rose essences to the final product. This is something I'd like to experiment with. I think I'll add a couple drops of rosewater and or orange blossom water to this batch and see how it goes.

Jack

Oh and I know that a gin and tonic is "the" gin drink. But I really don't understand the appeal. I've never liked tonic but even if I did, spending all this time and work to perfect your craft gin only to dump tonic in it would be like perfecting a great bourbon only to mix it with coke. My gin loving friends and I all drink gin and sodas, with lemon, not lime. I love me some lime, especially when drinking tequila, but we all find that lemon compliments gin SO much better. Y'all should give it a try!

is you lavender french or english

I read somewhere one sort is for perfume and the other for cooking

Dr. google comments

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/english-vs ... 50157.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

http://whatscookingamerica.net/Q-A/LavenderCulinary.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

http://www.gardenguides.com/87432-engli ... ender.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

looks like english is for cooking

now which one is growing at home

Thanks, interesting. But do you use a column still or pot still to make gin with herbs?

Odin... when you put herbs in the boiler and let it soak, should you have a pot still or reflux?

distilling_dk wrote:Odin... when you put herbs in the boiler and let it soak, should you have a pot still or reflux?

I may be a complete novice in this but from what I have read here is that if you want the taste to come through the stilling process you would use a potstill but maybe some of the more seasoned user here have some other insight into this matter


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Pot still.

1) Your base spirit is already clean. No need to further cut heads or tails (other than the first 10 or so ml of intense juniper oils).
2) No need to obtain higher ABV than what you'll get with the pot.

distilling_dk wrote:Odin... when you put herbs in the boiler and let it soak, should you have a pot still or reflux?

Potstill is best. Or if you have an LM or another type of packed column, just open take off completely so it works like a potstill.

Regards, Odin.

Ok.... I was actually looking at a 4 plate reflux still with gin bucket.
What do you think ?

That's not good. If you make the alcohol come over at above 70%, you will get a very dry gin. And if you push to above 85% you will loose the taste you were after.

Regards, Odin.

Ok thanks! ! Important

So,I use reflux to make clean spirits (remove foreshot ).
Dilute the spirit, put back in boiler with herbs and run again?

Yes. And what I do is that I also stabilize for like 15 minutes on my packed column during the gin run. Makes he first and obnoxious harsh gin oils very easy to collect. Then, afterwards, it is full open for pot distillation.

Regards, Odin.

Odin wrote:Yes. And what I do is that I also stabilize for like 15 minutes on my packed column during the gin run. Makes he first and obnoxious harsh gin oils very easy to collect. Then, afterwards, it is full open for pot distillation.

Regards, Odin.

What do you throw in your boiler when making gin (your recipe )

Do you have a Photo of your still setup ?

dk,

You want to use the best "clean hearts" for your maceration.

So, pull the clean hearts from your reflux run (I use 190 proof hearts tempered to 140 proof) in the boiler with the botanicals. But, I put the citrus in the vapor path in my gin still, a 16-qt stock pot potstill. I usually make 2 or 3 liters of gin at a time.

I typically follow Odin's EZ gin recipe in the T&T...it is great, predictible and delicious.
ss

still_stirrin wrote:dk,

You want to use the best "clean hearts" for your maceration.

So, pull the clean hearts from your reflux run (I use 190 proof hearts tempered to 140 proof) in the boiler with the botanicals. But, I put the citrus in the vapor path in my gin still, a 16-qt stock pot potstill. I usually make 2 or 3 liters of gin at a time.

I typically follow Odin's EZ gin recipe in the T&T...it is great, predictible and delicious.
ss

Ok good,
How do you but it i vapor path in a stock potstill? ?

distilling_dk wrote:

still_stirrin wrote:dk,

You want to use the best "clean hearts" for your maceration.

So, pull the clean hearts from your reflux run (I use 190 proof hearts tempered to 140 proof) in the boiler with the botanicals. But, I put the citrus in the vapor path in my gin still, a 16-qt stock pot potstill. I usually make 2 or 3 liters of gin at a time.

I typically follow Odin's EZ gin recipe in the T&T...it is great, predictible and delicious.
ss

Ok good,
How do you but it i vapor path in a stock potstill? ?

Research the term "gin basket"...

A "basket" is great. But a copper scrubby at the base of the potstill riser works too. I just drop the citrus in the riser above the scrubby. The vapors pass right through the scrubby like a fart through a nun's habit...no problem.

Necessity is the mother of invention.
ss

I use a screened gasket, same principle.

Great thread! Now just to figure out a smaller setup to do small runs to gt the recipe were I want it . I have 2l ready of Odin Easy Gin for when I get baby still together.... Might just get a 2G pot and do that...

B

Just found this thread, it is very interesting.
Will come back again and take notes to copy some recipes!