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Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:05 am
by Jimbo
ga flatwoods wrote:Next trip to Sam's is for popcorn liquor. Did you forget? Man a fidy lbs bag sam sug wuda made a hellofalot mo!
QWALITEEEE my good friend. Gotsta go fo dat qwaliteeee likker. Dems sugs dunt taste like no whiskies I evr bauted
Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:57 am
by Jimbo
Jimbo wrote:Finally ran the spirit run on this today while watching USA Hockey kick Slovenia's ass. (Apologies to anyone following this and waiting patiently to see if its worthwhile). Just finished making the cuts and jarring it up on oak.
Gotta say, this recipe is simple and delicious. The keep cut is really tasty, grainy but not a flour flavor as Richard described when unmalted flour was used in a sugarhead. I was a little nervous going into this after reading that, but the low wines seemed fine so just had to wait and see. Its nice real nice. Not unlike other wheat heavy all grains Ive done.
Here's the stats: (Note I ran 3 batches, each with 25 lb flour, but one of them scorched, so only was able to keep 2)
50 lbs flour, mashed at 185 with Sebmalt HT enzymes, and again at 145 with Sebmalt Super enzymes. No other grains or malt.
5 gal stripped at 30%, added another 1/2 gallon water to keep my element under liquid at the 3g mark, watching take qty closely!!!
Spirit run take was 2.25 gallons before I turned off (too close to 3g element level)
Keep cut was 1.20 gallon at 71% ALC. About 53 percent of the total spirit run.
Got it watered down to 62% and aging on one new stick of charred oak, and 1 spent stick that soaked in sherry/chianti/apple brandy blend soak jar.
I will happily repeat this recipe using malt for conversion when I run out of these enzymes a friend graciously gave me.
Cheers!
JImbo
Bump. Just to make sure folks waiting for this see it. Been a lot of interest and PM's about it.
Cheers.
Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:06 am
by Dan P.
sherry/chianti/apple brandy blend? Ay Carramba!
Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:09 am
by Jimbo
Dan P. wrote:sherry/chianti/apple brandy blend? Ay Carramba!
haha, just for soaking the spent oak sticks. But if it tastes good after Ill pour a snifter full.
Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:27 am
by Dan P.
Jimbo wrote:Dan P. wrote:sherry/chianti/apple brandy blend? Ay Carramba!
haha, just for soaking the spent oak sticks. But if it tastes good after Ill pour a snifter full.
As long as it's consensual and doesn't involve minors or animals, I don't judge.
Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:32 am
by Jimbo
Dan P. wrote:Jimbo wrote:Dan P. wrote:sherry/chianti/apple brandy blend? Ay Carramba!
haha, just for soaking the spent oak sticks. But if it tastes good after Ill pour a snifter full.
As long as it's consensual and doesn't involve minors or animals, I don't judge.
Sherry and hard wood go together well. I had a girlfriend named Sherry once, and... well.... never mind
The logic on the soak blend is sherry is brandy fortified wine. 1 bottle wasnt enough to cover the sticks, so I added some Chianti. Then wondered if the ABV was low enough for oddities to start growing, so bumped it back up with apple brandy figgerin, a little apple brandy soak wood certainly couldnt hurt a nice whiskey.
Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:20 pm
by Dan P.
Jimbo wrote:
The logic on the soak blend is sherry is brandy fortified wine. 1 bottle wasnt enough to cover the sticks, so I added some Chianti. Then wondered if the ABV was low enough for oddities to start growing, so bumped it back up with apple brandy figgerin, a little apple brandy soak wood certainly couldnt hurt a nice whiskey.
The Chianti sounds like it might be a bit thin (??), but other wise it sounds like a good idea. It just reminded me of some of the more ill-advised drinks combos of my youth.
I think I've posted this before, but here's some info on a crazy sherry pressure-treatment of oak dodge by the wily Scots;
http://whiskyscience.blogspot.co.uk/201 ... tment.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment
Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:57 pm
by BDF
I never asked, but you only used alpha amylase enzymes on the flour? No beta or gluco? or even beano?
Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment
Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:07 pm
by Jimbo
I used high temp alpha at 185 called Sebmalt HT. And then a blend of 3 enzymes at 145 called SebSuper.
But to do this without, Id just mash in with 5 lbs of 6 row.
Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment
Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:28 pm
by BDF
Jimbo wrote:I used high temp alpha at 185 called Sebmalt HT. And then a blend of 3 enzymes at 145 called SebSuper.
But to do this without, Id just mash in with 5 lbs of 6 row.
Was it this stuff?
http://www.astenzymes.com/digeseb-gi" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:33 am
by Jimbo
No its brewing enzymes I got from a friend. He bought it commercial, they dont sell retail direct. We been looking for a reseller. This place makes some cool enzymes, there's definitely a market to repackage a few of these into smaller vials for homebrewers and stillers. The 2 mentioned are linked below, but look through their product list, impressive.
Sebbrew HT here
http://specialtyenzymes.com/products/te ... ct-cooking" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Seb<alt Super here
http://specialtyenzymes.com/products/term/mashing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment
Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 6:44 am
by Jimbo
Folks, here's an update on how this is turning out. Its been aging on oak since Feb 15th. About 3 months now. It a has a nice flavor but its peculiar in that it more resembles a vodka character than a whiskey character. Like if you oaked a nice vodka, if that makes sense. Grainy and clean, but missing some character.
Im coming to the conclusion this recipe would be well suited to making a wheat based all grain vodka, more than a sipping whiskey. Im going to keep 1 quart on oak to see how it shapes up over the months, years. But the rest Im going to blend with my vodka stash and run it again. That will be 6th run on the vodka base (potstill) and 3rd for this.
Cheers,
Jimbo
Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment
Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 8:29 am
by jarheadshiner
Jimbo wrote:Folks, here's an update on how this is turning out. Its been aging on oak since Feb 15th. About 3 months now. It a has a nice flavor but its peculiar in that it more resembles a vodka character than a whiskey character. Like if you oaked a nice vodka, if that makes sense. Grainy and clean, but missing some character.
Im coming to the conclusion this recipe would be well suited to making a wheat based all grain vodka, more than a sipping whiskey. Im going to keep 1 quart on oak to see how it shapes up over the months, years. But the rest Im going to blend with my vodka stash and run it again. That will be 6th run on the vodka base (potstill) and 3rd for this.
Cheers,
Jimbo
Thanks for the update. I finally got some enzymes and made up a batch. Pitched yeast last night and it's bubbling away. On the hunt for a 55 gallon fermenter tomorrow so I can make a double batch up. Plan is to strip enough for at least a 10 gallon charge of low wines to run through my VM.
I'll let ya know how it turns out but it will be a few weeks if all goes well.
Had a hard time getting a good SG reading because the stuff is pretty thick. Did you notice the same thing?
Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment
Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 8:38 am
by Jimbo
Cool, good luck jarhead. I use a refrac, it will take an sg of just about anything with a drop or 2. Ya stuff is defintely thick, like a thin milkshake or 20W50 maybe
Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment
Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 10:08 am
by jarheadshiner
Jimbo wrote:Cool, good luck jarhead. I use a refrac, it will take an sg of just about anything with a drop or 2. Ya stuff is defintely thick, like a thin milkshake or 20W50 maybe
Cheater!
Yup thick stuff. Got high hopes for a good vodka. Ya think the absence of any malted grains is what's missing for a whiskey?
Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment
Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 10:20 am
by Jimbo
jarheadshiner wrote:Ya think the absence of any malted grains is what's missing for a whiskey?
yup, thats my guess. And also wheat flour is pretty devoid, the germ, protein and husk are all gone. They only make up 15% of the grain, but gotta believe they add something to the flavor.
THis recipe is the polar opposite of my 5 Grain whiskey. Thats got the kitchen sink in it, and after oaking I give it time on sherry soaked wood too. Its got so much flavor swirling around its crazy. This flour based thing is like drinking kool aid next to a pure fruit juice blend.
I might be downplaying it some tho. It definitely has a grainy character, but its subtle and one dimensional. If you like Jack or TN styles you might like it just fine.
Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment
Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 10:24 am
by FullySilenced
Is why i used an un-enriched... whole grain flour when i made mine nothing added nothing removed ... stone ground...
Worked a charm
Happy Stillin,
FS
Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment
Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:36 pm
by Jimbo
Looks like I never came back here and reported on this recipe. Here's the deal after aging on oak for 6 months.
Interesting drink. Relatively easy to make so a nice AG option over doing a sugar head maybe. It has a very biscuit forward flavor, tortilla maybe, unmistakable flour flavor. Light, but there. And the flavor in general is a little thin. Its not something I would drink neat (I drink whiskey neat), so it wont have a place on my bar next to the other whiskeys, but its an interesting flavor that Im doing a couple things with now. 1- adding some (5-10%) to a multi-grain blend I do, to add another dimension, and 2 - I think its a real nice vodka base. I havent rerun it 3 more times yet, but its on the list. I can tell by the flavor (which is a little vodka-y already) that it should make a real fine vodka with 5 total runs through potstill (how I make my vodka).
Cheers,
Jimbo
Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment
Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:55 am
by Jimbo
Here's another update on this wheat flour stuff. My opinion might be changing from the post immediately below. Its been another buncha months, 15 total now on oak.
This crap aint bad! Nice flavor, more complexity now and coming into its own. The floury tortilla vodka flavor is diminishing and its a caramelly nice whiskey with a grain background. Thinner perhaps than AG done with wheat due to this being processed flour but, well, this crap aint bad.
Ill bring a bottle to S3 for anyone curious to try it.
Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:41 am
by Jimbo
Ok, gotta report. I pulled a quart of this off the shelf to check oak level, still aging on a charred stick for 18 months now, and wow. I was tasting through the aging jars, and my initial reaction was this is my wheat. The wheat fruityness jumped at me first. I looked at the label and saw the (fl) meaning its the flour batch and couldnt believe it. The tortilla flavor is gone finally. Its a clean fruity nice whiskey now. Really nice flavor. If it wasnt so damn hard to make (scorch potential) Id make it regularly. Thse of you with steam stills should be cranking this out! I used some of it for a blend (b303) but still have 3 quarts left. Ill be keeping these as is to drink as a single grain. Next to the multi grain blends, its a differnet beast for sure. But very nice. And very happy the tortilla flavor finally disappeared, it took its sweet ass time on that.
Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:46 pm
by jedneck
STEAM+FLOUR=BOOZE. I have been using flour ever since i went to steam.
Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 2:50 pm
by Jimbo
jedneck wrote:STEAM+FLOUR=BOOZE. I have been using flour ever since i went to steam.
HAHA!
Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment
Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 2:51 pm
by Kegg_jam
Ok. Gonna have to give this a try just as soon as I work through this big ass bag of barley.
Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment
Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 1:09 pm
by jedneck
What a shame. I got me an empty fermenter and don't have the groceries for my smokey corn/rye. But I did get a bag of flour today. I believe at vodka from a pot still is in my future.
Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:24 am
by jedneck
Got the last ferment ready to strip. I used soft white wheat flour. It is the most neutral strip runs that I have had which suits my plans. Gonna water the lowines down to 20% and strip it 2x more then a spirit run. I'm going for a very light flavoured wheat vodka from a pot still.
Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:59 am
by Jimbo
Sounds nice! Let us know how it turns out.
Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:06 am
by jedneck
Just pulled a sample to see if I can get a SG on it. Got a reading of 1.06@ 60°. I filtered it through flatwoods filter cloth., the sample is milky but no solids. And there is no hint of sweetness to it, just as sour as the first ferment that is already stripped. Fermenter sat beside the wood stove for 3 weeks. I believe I'm still gonna run it.
Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:30 am
by Jimbo
You dont have a refrac yet?
Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:38 am
by jedneck
Jimbo wrote:You dont have a refrac yet?
No but is it on the piss the soh off list.
Re: Jimbo's Wheat Flour AG Experiment
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:06 pm
by BoomTown
Jimbo wrote:I been haviong problems with the last 2 batches of red wheat mashed with Dingemans wheat malt. It mashes fine, as usual to 1.060 or so, but wont ferment. Aerated, pH is fine, added soem gypsum for the yeast in the mash water, bla bla, as I always do but it just wont ferment. 2 batches dumped now. Only thing I can think is this feed grade wheat has some anti fungal on it so it doesnt mold in the cold damp winter. Anyone here know?
Anyway, this wheat flour fired up and fermented fine.
The thinness is just because there's nothing here but flour. Corn mashes taste thin too. I was trying to point out that it smelled great, but didnt pack flavor like it does aroma. Anyway, Its why all sorts of flavor grains, Caramel, special roast, carapils, aromatic malts etc etc are added to beer, so they dont taste thin.
Just read about a new SEB product SEB ??? FE a fermenting enhancer ... have you worked with that?