Home Distiller

Randy you a smart man run the cost analysis for
you and your family. I see CT so I'm guess you from there.
You VA or below God be with you.

So I'm Tole

Guys at HDA check out how the law was changed here in MO. I called my state Attorney general the state will not prosecute legal home production, in accordance with state law. They compared it to the passage of herbal use in other states. You sell you'll get charged otherwise be good. It was changed grass roots by makers and home producers of alcoholic beverages. Work on states, follow the rules, get it changed at your state level, let the states snub their noses at big brother and he will go away or at least leave it be. I ask everyone be a positive example of promoting safe home distilling,and continue to help educate those of us all eager to make the best we can as safely as we can, as responsibly as we can. This forum is a never ending record of information passed freely and willingly in the hopes of legalizing our hobby. And proving how much this material can benefit everyone interested in home distillation.

We are aware of the law in MO, and definitely urge everyone to contact their state representatives to work on changing the laws in their state. MO is owed thanks for leading the way, as it allows the rest of us to use it as an example when talking to our own state representatives. I personally have a sit-down with our rep next week, and MO will be mentioned, believe me. However, we need to change the law at both levels, and can only handle one thing at a time. If we can get somewhere federally then it may help to light a fire under more people to work on it in their home states. As it stands now it is difficult to get enough support in one state to do much, and there is almost no way that the association can head 50 (or even 5 or 10) simultaneous actions. As we move along and (hopefully) get more support of the HDA we will be able to help more in individual states, and then hopefully help countries like Canada and AU follow the same path.

Brewhaus Rick, very curious your thoughts on what happened and why in FL?

I really wish that I could answer that, but I was blown away that the TTB / FL actually went after hobby level distillers. Up to that point the general unwritten rule seemed to be to leave the guy that is purely a hobbyist alone, but go after the sell operations. That appears to have changed, hence the reason that we decided that we needed to move faster with setting up the HDA and pushing for legalization. It was already in the works, but the urgency was not there like it is now.

One of the amazing things to me is the small amount of TTB offices. Low and behold my local TTB office is TTB/Fla. and I live in WV. You would think the one in DC would be closer. It makes me wonder even more how the one little office is going to control everything from Fla. all the way up to here.

IMHO, the TTB would probably love to see this off of their plate, providing it did not increase illegal sell operations or dramatically impact excise tax. By setting this up correctly it could actually make it harder on the sell operations, and make them stand out a bit more, making them easier targets. And, using NZ's data, there would not be a decrease in alcohol revenues.

Rick/Tom, have you thought about ways that you might facilitate the average hobbyist in initiating contact with state and federal officials - particularly state officials. I'm talking about helpful resources on the HDA website in particular. Could be things like lists of links to state legislators, ABC officials, US congress (Reps and Senators) , etc. - with contact info like email addresses and snail mail addresses. Also, materials like form letters or templates. I think that kind of information would go a long way in encouraging members to take some action on their own.

Email might be a good mechanism for contacting officials. I would recommend that members obtain a "hushmail" email address at https://www.hushmail.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow . It's a secure email address designed to protect your identity. You can get a 30 day free account or pay for a permanent account. I don't remember the cost of the permanent one - I think $30 or $40 per year. That and a trip to the public library to use one of their public PCs should cover your tracks quite well. I've done this before, but don't know if it just fell on deaf ears - I never got a response back. Point though is that many such contacts might get noticed.

Was wondering too if you have any plans for press releases. I think if properly focused, media exposure could go a long way in changing public perceptions.

That all said - don't take this as an endorsement of HDA or either of you. I've softened on Rick, but Tom, the jury is still out. No offense, but you could be the lightning rod salesman come into town to bilk the citizens out of their hard earned cash - don't know, not convinced yet. Daddy taught me to distrust what I don't know.

We do have individual state information slowly being added to the website (very slowly- we need someone to help with compiling this information). I was also hoping to get someone to find avenues of getting media attention to some degree, and have contacted a writer for the Dallas Morning News who did an article on this late last year. I would love to get some media attention on this. As for a press release, this is something that I have never done, so it would be best if someone with more knowledge of the process did that.

I got into distilling when I watched a show called "Three sheets". They had an episode out in Arizona where someone let them take a look at their still and sample the whiskey they made. They basically said what I now know to be the truth. It is a safe and fun hobby and you can make a spirit that you enjoy more. They person had to wear a bandana around their face and not disclose any names or addresses. I thought to myself how odd this was. I honestly think that most people think of us as the guys on "moonshiners" who are just criminals looking to make a quick buck. I don't know how we are going to be able to change that perception in the short term.

S-Cackalacky wrote:Rick/Tom, have you thought about ways that you might facilitate the average hobbyist in initiating contact with state and federal officials - particularly state officials. I'm talking about helpful resources on the HDA website in particular. Could be things like lists of links to state legislators, ABC officials, US congress (Reps and Senators) , etc. - with contact info like email addresses and snail mail addresses. Also, materials like form letters or templates. I think that kind of information would go a long way in encouraging members to take some action on their own.

Email might be a good mechanism for contacting officials.

There is a link on the HDA website under the Legalization tab if you click on downloads. The one I'm referring to is the "proposal prepared by John Barleycorn" in pdf format. This is the proposal I've mailed to my federal senators and congressmen. I found contact info for my legislators at: http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

The proposal is very well written. It is 16 pages. For each of the large 9" x 12" clasp envelopes with a proposal and cover letter, it costs about $2.00 to mail (if you don't send by priority mail). I had a more difficult time trying to find the email contact info, and I figured maybe I might have a better chance if I send a physical copy. I used the following cover letter, written by BH member "Hokey", but slightly modified:

March 12, 2014


Dear Congressman [XXXXXX],

I am one of the many people interested in home-brewing beer for personal use. I have recently found several web-sites dedicated to home-distilling as a hobby for personal and private use. While I am not currently distilling, I and others would like to see the enclosed changes made to “26 US Chapter 51.” These changes would simply put home hobby distilling for personal use on par with brewing beer and making wine, which was legalized by President Carter during his administration.

Would you please take a minute and review these proposed changes? It would be greatly appreciated to hear from you regarding your thoughts on the subject and what you think our best course of action would be at this point.


Thank you for your time!


Sincerely,
[My name, address, & phone number]

Randy,
Thanks for the generic letter that folks can use to contact their congressmen/women. One of the things we have learned of the past 10 months is you need to send this letter to the congressman that represents the district you live in. It has a much better chance of being read and responded to by the person you and your neighbors helped elect. Use the link Randy posted above to get your representative name and phone number. Google his or her name to get office addresses and email addresses.

Another thing we have learned is Follow-up. Snail mail goes through a screening center away from DC to check for bombs, etc. That process takes a couple of weeks. Emails go much faster but remember that get a lot of emails. Give the process a few weeks and if you have not heard back, call or re-email and remind them you are a constituent and need their help.

Also, each congressional rep has an office in DC and most have several offices scattered around their district. The district folks are a heck of a lot easier to make personal contact with then the folks in DC. If you find a district office close to your home or office, stop by and pay them a visit. Take a copy of the proposal and explain exactly what we are trying to do and why. A personal contact beats an unsolicited email hands down.

One last thing is for S-cackalacky. When my load of lightening rods come in, you will be the very first person I call.

Tom

The TTB reminds me of the DSMs for GM when I worked in the dealership.
Spending $100 for every $1 they save.

Sad.

tcowdrey wrote: One last thing is for S-cackalacky. When my load of lightening rods come in, you will be the very first person I call.

Tom

Not lookin' for no lightnin' rods, nor rattlesnakes that bites the hand that feeds it. If you tryin' to win me over, that kind of comment won't do it. You could use some lessons in diplomacy. It's like goose eye says, we got a lot to loose and we at least deserve to know that our $30 isn't a fools money. I'll do every damned thing I can to get this hobby legalized, but I won't do it at the expense of my family. They already in this deep enough just because I practice this hobby and post on this forum. I don't need for their lives to be turned upside down because of a stupid foolish mistake on my part. So, joke about it as you will, but it does nothing to win my trust.

Jeeze, lighten up...

Yes, please don't let a little light personal humor get in the way of the effort.

There's a huge difference between "idea" folks and "doers." After all of the time I've spent as a volunteer in various organizations, I know the difference all too well. The rubber hits the road as soon as any real work actually needs to be performed. Tom is a doer. And I seriously doubt he's soliciting personal endorsements, so let's move on.

If you want to contribute, then contribute. If you don't, then don't. Otherwise, please be kind enough to stay out of the way.

That said, folks can help without compromising personal information or contributing money. Just dropping off a few flyers to your LHBS will help get the word out ... or helping to collect/present information ... or doing some needed research, etc.

I'm trying to come up with a couple new flyers, if anyone has any ideas. The first one was just something I wanted to use to generate traffic to the website from people at my local brewing supply store. It's not suitable for mass scale use, isn't direct or clear, and doesn't achieve the goal it needs to.

Any ideas are welcome! I plan on attending the Great International Beer Festival in Providence, RI on Saturday April 12th and handing out as many fliers as possible... so I'm gonna have to come up with something good before then.

Just for informational purposes and to maybe help calm some nerves. Tom is a real person and is very active in this movement. Like all other things in the beginning it is very hard for folks to join in an effort to try and accomplish changing the rules of something illegal. It is quite alright to not want to get involved if you think it might bring harm to you or your family. I have recently learned that Tom's wife and her family are from just a few miles from where I live and I am hoping that maybe on his next visit to see her folks to maybe get to meet Him. The reality of it is the movement has started, I for one have decided to be involved and I know many others that have followed and many more will as it progresses. I appreciate Tom and Rick, Randy and the others and it is time for the hobby to become legal. It's only fair to us just as it is for Beer Brewers. I remember the days of the helmet laws being forced up on us that ride motorcycles and I agree that they should be worn in many circumstances but that does not make it any more fair to the ones that wish not to wear them it is a matter of Choice and we should have the right to make our own choices. In those days the ones that said oh they won't be able to get this passed found themselves being forced to do something they didn't want to do because they set back and didn't get involved. It takes standing together to get anything accomplished in this grand country of ours and I want to be able to set on my patio and do as I wish not what some crook looking for more taxes wants me to do. Off my soap box now and hope this helps in everyone becoming friends with all of our own rights and goals in mind.

#1 cookie well said

I can and will make up some flyers for my local brew shops with a link to the site. I think it's important to realize we are hobbyist and don't want permission to do anything other then craft out own sprits for personal consumption, just as were permitted to make beer and wine. I think once folks would be permitted to do such tasks the illegal moonshine operations would go away who wants to buy it if you can make your own cheaper. I believe many folks buy from shiners because they are scared to make it on there own and rightfully so given the penalties. I think its worth putting your name in the hat your not implying anything other then you would like to see the same rites given for distillation on a hobby level as are granted to beer and wine making.

An AD industry colleague has given permission for his response to be posted.

Regarding the HDA flyer sent for review:

Interesting. While I respect the effort that went into this, it puts the cart before the horse.

There’s no strategy here. Advertising (even issues management) is a process of persuasion. You want your target audience to stop doing what they are currently doing in favor of what you want them to do. (Whether that’s buying a Coke instead of a Pepsi, or supporting a Democrat over a Republican, or going to Florida to escape the winter cold.)

In order for that to happen, you need a very clear view of your target audience and a very succinct idea of what you want them to do. At that point you can ask, what specific logic will incline this group toward that action. As you and I discussed on Sunday, it’s not about what’s important to you, the advertiser, it’s about what’s important to them, the target audience.

I’ve looked at this a couple of times and I can’t say with certainty who the target audience is. Most of it seems directed toward membership, but there’s no call to action and some of the facts should already be known by that group. Some of it seems directed toward the legislator but, again, the message is muddled. Pick one or the other. You’re not going to talk effectively to both. Got two target audiences? Then you need to have two messages.

Whoever the target audience is, you can expect effectiveness to have a relationship with the professionalism of the communication. (No, I’m not trying to drum up work.) This is particularly true of the legislative audience because they won’t take an amateur group very seriously if they don’t perceive a threat. (All change is a threat. You have to make the status quo a bigger threat. Which means you have to look like you could cause trouble.)

I’m happy to get involved pro bono but I don’t have enough facts to make a recommendation yet.

Cheers,

Tom

Thomas Simmons
Creative Director

THE THOMAS SIMMONS AGENCY, INC.
Advertising, Marketing & World Domination
19259 Harlow Square
Leesburg, VA 20176

http://www.thomassimmonsagency.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I would think that this flyer would be geared towards membership and support not for the politicians.

Also I would recommend more than one flyer but several to the target audience.

Eg; One flyer geared towards the Home Brewing community, touching on topics they already know and their fight to get the laws changed. (with the standard info like safety NZ etc etc)

Another geared towards the uneducated(uninformed) the ones that think distillers are all bunch of redneck criminals etc etc

and so on and so on

One 'flyer' for the masses. brewfolk, citizens etc with a clear message this is a safe, fun and rewarding hobby.

One 'letter' to the politicians doing exactly what Tom the marketing guru says, and others of us have said below. You MUST convince them this is in their best interest somehow. That they have something to gain. Youre asking them to change the status quo. They need a reason that suits them.

Thats my $0.02

varocketry wrote:This is particularly true of the legislative audience because they won’t take an amateur group very seriously if they don’t perceive a threat.

I'm guessing that's why HDA hired a professional lobbyist. As for the threat, the only thing politicians seem to fear is failing to be (re)elected ... getting enough votes. It seems to me that there will always be at least "two messages" in the legislative process. In our case: "You want the votes" and "we want legalization."

So I agree with Mr. Simmons, we need two messages. The message to the politicians seems obvious enough. But as Mr. Simmons says, "You have to make the status quo a bigger threat." That applies to Joe voter as well. I suppose the hard part is convincing the average Joe that the status quo is a threat, or that changing it represents a benefit. Why should he even care?

We have a lot working against us. The host of myths alone: blindness, poisoning, explosions, fires, illicit sales, the edentate hillbilly in overalls -- the stuff the average Joe accepts as truth. And he isn't even aware that distilling can be a hobby, much less the of the laws and the associated draconian punishments. So it's not exactly like we're trying to sell a few extra bottles of Pepsi here.

Rick, is there any way HDA can take up Mr. Simmons on his offer to do some pro bono work?

Rick, is there any way HDA can take up Mr. Simmons on his offer to do some pro bono work?

I sent a PM back to varocketry last night doing just that, but it is still sitting in my outbox, so I do not know that it got to him. If not, varocketry, please get in touch so that we can move forward on this.

John Barleycorn wrote:
Rick, is there any way HDA can take up Mr. Simmons on his offer to do some pro bono work?

I will be contacting Tom today regarding help with establishing 4 separate documents.

1. Something that would appeal to the general public, not just home brew store customers, aimed specifically at getting people to register on the website to support the changes to 26 USC to allow home distilling (call to action, so to speak).

2. Something aimed at getting people to mail or email the 26 USC Changes Proposal JB drafted to their legislators.

3. An item aimed at the lawmakers we're trying to persuade.

4. A press release to use with the lobbying group.

I'm willing to throw a few hundred dollars in, which would pretty much be considered "pro-bono" compared to what professionals charge. Does anyone have any input I should include in my email to Tom, other than what is mentioned above? Thank you all for the input so far, it truly helps! Anything Tom comes up with will probably be 100 times better than anything I could come up with.

varocketry, this is a huge help!

RandyMarshCT,

Don’t beat yourself up. It’s not that your flyer was bad. You simply started with what was important to you, as a hobby distiller, instead of thinking only of your target audience. This is common to the point of being a universal occurrence and even some professionals (so called) make that error. (That wasn’t intended to sound snarky but it may have. In fact, I enjoy the strategic aspect of marketing and find it equally if not more important than the execution.)

I’ve looked at your list but I’m going to take a step back even farther. The reason is that I question whether or not the general public can be made to be interested in your cause. Why would they be? Fairness? Good people overlook fairness all the time. I think it’s unrealistic to expect people without skin in this game to get involved at any level, especially a monetary one. Unless…

Your biggest problem is not whether or not your cause is just. It’s that you represent a tiny constituency. Which means your voice isn’t important as a voting bloc. Your second biggest problem is that there are powerful people who probably don’t want you to get your way. Who? The folks who manufacture and sell distilled spirits. You’re not a big threat to them but every home-distilled bottle represents a bottle they didn’t sell. Since they have to jump through a lot of hoops to manufacture and sell spirits in the US, they probably feel like they deserve to own the market. If home distilling becomes popular, it could turn into a niche area that cuts into their business.

The same would be true of states that have ABC stores. They won’t be on your side and even if the Feds gave you what you want the states might pass their own laws against it.

So that’s your market landscape and it’s a daunting one.

Here are some aspects I need to know:

The home brew stores. Are they currently serving wine and beer makers only? Or do they already sell distilling equipment? If they sell distilling equipment, aren’t they a bit like “head shops” that sell drug paraphernalia (but not drugs)? What is their culture like? How many of them are there? Can you get a list of every one fairly easily?

Is there any good reason to believe that amateur wine and beer makers will join your cause? Aren’t they pretty specialized? They’ve already got what they want. Why would they “poke the bear?”

Has your lobbying firm found anyone on Capitol Hill who wants to champion this? That would be huge. (It won’t be anyone from a state where there are any distillers operating, natch.)

Are home distillers willing to pay a tax on each bottle they make to replace the taxes lost on every bottle they don’t buy? (This will be nickels and dimes, admittedly, but trust me, it will be important to someone.)

Now, depending on the answers to my questions, here are some thoughts about going forward:

A press release is a very easy thing to write but probably not the correct tactic to use at this point. Except among the small press, press releases have become an antiquated form of information. PR firms and lobbyist won’t admit that, but they are. They’re pretty self-serving and end up residing mostly on people’s web sites.

The most incentivized audiences to join your association and pay dues are, 1. Hobby distillers, and 2. stores that will profit from selling distilling equipment to hobby distillers. The hobbyists are the easiest group because the barrier to entry is low and they’ll be enthusiastic. Just not sure how to reach them. The stores are tougher because you want more money and they have no reason (yet) to believe you will be successful. So for membership, these are your target audiences unless I’ve overlooked someone.

Here’s a little history lesson. In the late 80s or early 90s, a small brewer appeared on the Today Show. It was a David and Goliath story. This craft brewer was creating a really good beer because typical premium beers are all pretty much the same. The beer was Sam Adams and the result is history. In the early 90s, Gary Heurich decided to bring back his grandfather’s DC beer and he was dying to repeat the success of Sam Adams. He couldn’t understand why The Today Show didn’t want to run essentially the same story again but, of course, they didn’t. In the PR world, it’s one and done.

However, your issue hasn’t been done yet. And maybe it would garner some interest, if it had the right hook. Getting on a TV show would take you much farther than a back-page mention in a general interest magazine. So what’s the right hook? Here are a few to consider:

The current law is essential a government sponsored monopoly for distillers.
There is no other consumer product you aren’t allowed to make for yourself (aside from drugs using controlled substances). Grow your own food, sure. Make your own wine and beer, no problem. Want to build your own car, knock yourself out. Make you own clothes, we love your pluck. But make a bottle of house Bourbon, nope. Gotta buy it from the big guys, whether you like their recipe or not. (There are no controlled substances used to make distilled spirits. It becomes a controlled substance but it's one you are allowed to own.)

The current law criminalizes an authentic amateur interest.
Try to imagine any other legitimate amateur activity that automatically makes you a criminal. One of the most convincing arguments in getting the 55 mile an hour speed limits overturned was that unreasonable expectations create scofflaw behavior that leads to other bad behavior because respect for the law has already been eroded. Is hobby distilling really such a dangerous activity that the federal government needs to criminalize it? Do we really want to drive another subculture underground, as we did with recreational drugs? Look how spectacularly unsuccessful that was!

There may be more but these two strategies might be enough to get you on a local morning show. Do you have a charismatic spokesperson who could drive this home? If you attached your issue to a single, capable speaker and found a champion on Capitol Hill who agreed to lead the legislative effort you’d have the makings of a real grass roots campaign. Then, you could expect to interest general audiences, get memberships (and revenue) and have a real shot.

BTW, your website would need to reflect whichever strategy your choose (or both) and it would need to be professionalized.

These are merely preliminary thoughts but there you have it.

Cheers,

Tom


Thomas Simmons
Creative Director

THE THOMAS SIMMONS AGENCY, INC.

Brewhaus, RandyMarshCT, Tcowdrey:

It occurs to me that we could also include the SUPPLIERS in our lobbying efforts. I think Tractor Supply and COSTCO probably supply a lot of bulk corn feed and granulated sugar to hobbyists.

Dudadiesel probably supplies a bunch of calcium carbonate to hobbyists.
PexSupply sells hobbyists more than a few copper fittings (for whatever reason!).
I've bought four aquarium heaters from a dude on Ebay.

Maybe the Chinese 10000watt SCR controller vendor would see the marketing benefit .....

very valid points Varo.
I see a large revenue increase by legalizing on a hobby lvl I personally know a lot of folks that would love to distill if there wasn't a chance they would be arrested. All those folks buying supplies means more revenue. I'm just one person, I'm sure everyone on here knows at least a few folks wanting to distill but are scared to.
I think there is much misinformation about how safely distilling can be done at home and I don't understand why I don't ever remember hearing of someone blinded, blown up, dead or even injured slightly in my 48 years of life here on planet earth from home distillation. I think we hobbyist who also brew and make wine know cleanliness is next to godliness. If we are consuming our own alcoholic beverages we are certainly not gonna short cut anything. Most Backwoods moonshine boys are in it for the cash just like drug dealers they don't give a rats ass about the people they sell to, only that the money spends. Its not like that with Hobbyist because we drink it and our loved ones drink it. It's also important to point out the internet is a wealth of knowledge on the subject provided you look in the proper place. Were not in the stone ages anymore performing mad science with, I wonder if's, and what if's.
I have worked on equipment in the Seagrams plant have watched the entire process from mash to boxing of bottled spirits, Bonding to placement in trucks for shipping. Not just once but nearly everyday for 6 years straight. I have made friends with every single person involved with the process even the upper management the distillation process isn't difficult to understand even without someone telling you what's going on.

Tom, Rick or anyone involved I'm headed to sign up now to HDA please if you have something written up send me a pm. I'm happy to help I will send that info to any and all brew shops brew and wine clubs all county and state reps.

Epic- Thank you in advance for your support! We have a proposal that John Barleycorn wrote that you can send to your representatives at the state and federal level, and a flyer that RandyMarshCT did up. I believe that a more pointed version is in the works to help drive stores and home brewers to get involved.