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der wo wrote:

Pikey wrote:
... the likely additives that we may suspect the original (or the "Memory" ) may have contained ?

der wo wrote: For emulating you first have to know (or suspect) what they use. And then decide if you want to use it too.....

Now it's getting close to the time when I have to buy a bottle to compare ! - but I begin to worry ! - What if the taste does not match my "Memory" ?

- like shop bought mushrooms do not taste like the memory those we gathered from the fields at dawn as children. Like KFC does not taste like the memory of "Kentucky Fried Chicken" I used to go out late at night and buy when I was cramming for exams ?

Does my memory owe much to the circumstances surrounding it's consumption many years ago - or like the two examples I quoted, is the difference actually real ?

If there IS a difference - how do I quantify that difference internally and chase the "Memory" even if that taste never did exist ?

Bugger - that's deep - ANd I haven't had a single drop yet !

Interesting comments Pikey .....Initially by "Memory" I thought you were referring to how one remembers the Taste of something . As in , I remember it was sweet like pineapple .

So now I'm thinking that maybe you are a taste person .

There are visual people that see something and it triggers a memory of something .
There are sound people that here a song or sound and it triggers a memory of something .
There are smell people that sniff something and it triggers a memory of something .

Is that what you are meaning ? ....you taste something and it triggers a memory . If the taste is not the same then no memory recall ...or a memory of something else ....or have I completely lost the plot

Lol - I never thought we'd get from "rum" to "Neuro Linguistic Programming" Yummy !

I can be affected emotionally by certain sights and indeed some sounds (words or tones of voice in given circumstances) can put me in "flight or fight" mode occasionally. - Indeed I think and dream in words and pictures (mainly words). However you have something in what you say - there are a few smells and tastes which transport my thoughts to a different plane. Oddly, when I think about it, the "smell / taste" effects are usually positive, if sometimes a little "Left field" in their evocations.

I assume others have certain "smell triggers" too ?

In my thoughts on NLP - I was really never able to decide "What I am" in those terms. Frustrating at the time since others semed to have no such problems.

Often memory is betrayed by progression.
The chutney we would put on our lamb cutlets is not the chutney of old -despite being the exact same brand.
The flavor has been moderated to blandness for the masses by a new owner.

KFC does not enjoy the Kentucky Fried Chicken of old. It is admittedly prepared differently. (http://www.bizjournals.com/newyork/news ... ethod.html)

But the smell of the amusement park blacktop still evokes memories of my first girlfriend and I walking amidst the rides, restaurants, and hucksters on a blazing summer's day.
The change is the hand I now hold.

Your rum may not exist anymore as your memory does. It may have been tamed for broader palates. It may not exist.

But just as your KFC example is planning to return to roots, all the more reason I hope you find what you're looking for, Pikey.

Still Life wrote:
.....But the smell of the amusement park blacktop still evokes memories of my first girlfriend and I walking amidst the rides, restaurants, and hucksters on a blazing summer's day.
The change is the hand I now hold. .............

Ahh that's lovely !

The thing is that "Memory" is one of the least reliable "senses" - "Eye witnesses" are recognised (although not by the courts) - as almost useless, in fact counter - factual in many cases and their ID''s are easily manipulated by the words and expectations of those conducting the examination.

Children and adults can easily have False memories implanted - either deliberately or accidentally by those close to them or those examining and NLP itself relies on changing perceptions due to memories, to effect changes in beliefs and actions.

Oddly SL, I know the "era" that memory comes from, but what exactly I expect the "taste" to do when I get there - I am completely blank about !

Anyway, the foam is getting more and I can see bubbles emerging now. Time to buy that bottle !

NZC speaks of "botanicals" and we have such a big palette of methods and flavours to work with - It would even be possible to hang some in a "Gin basket", within the vapour path.

[Edit - isn't it fantastic that we have a hobby where we can adapt and modify drinks to suit our expectations rather than having to just "accept what's served to us" ?]

Pikey wrote:NZC speaks of "botanicals" and we have such a big palette of methods and flavours to work with - It would even be possible to hang some in a "Gin basket", within the vapour path.

For the small amount of botanicals required to provide a hint of flavor to emulate your target rum, you could just chuck them in the boiler.

If you have a Carter Head with a triclamp & blank for a lid, you can do quick shutdowns to add and remove botanicals during a run. I haven't built one yet, but I have a nice piece of 4" copper I could use.

The worst thing you can do with some of them, is put them in the aging jar. Orange is bad for clarity, but coffee beans seem to be ok.

NZChris wrote:

Pikey wrote:NZC speaks of "botanicals" and we have such a big palette of methods and flavours to work with - It would even be possible to hang some in a "Gin basket", within the vapour path.

For the small amount of botanicals required to provide a hint of flavor to emulate your target rum, you could just chuck them in the boiler.

If you have a Carter Head with a triclamp & blank for a lid, you can do quick shutdowns to add and remove botanicals during a run. I haven't built one yet, but I have a nice piece of 4" copper I could use.

The worst thing you can do with some of them, is put them in the aging jar. Orange is bad for clarity, but coffee beans seem to be ok.

Uh oh, you've given me ideas!
Experiment brewing in my head, hmmmm.... This could be interesting!

I don't have a "Carter head" - but my column is a simple offset, with the "defleg" / knock down coil in the offset branch, so my column, in pot mode is a simple tube, with a cork and thermo stuck in the top. I do my gin runs by hanging a piece of cotton cloth in the column from a copper wire trapped by the cork.

It would take me less than 60 seconds to shut down, add or remove a botanicals bag and start her up again. Certainly citrus comes over well using this method, although it does impart a slight "tinge" to the distillate.

It looks as though I'm going to try a lot of different "ageing jugs" and I'm expecting about 5 litres of useable product @ c 60%. Normally I age in 5 litre glass demijohns, but I do have a few 2 Litre ones and some smaller "jars" - what sort of minimum size do we think is acceptable for "aging/flavouring" to show meaningful results ? - I have all the "air seasoned oak" I can use and can toast/char as desired.

nerdybrewer wrote:

NZChris wrote:

Pikey wrote:NZC speaks of "botanicals" and we have such a big palette of methods and flavours to work with - It would even be possible to hang some in a "Gin basket", within the vapour path.

For the small amount of botanicals required to provide a hint of flavor to emulate your target rum, you could just chuck them in the boiler.

If you have a Carter Head with a triclamp & blank for a lid, you can do quick shutdowns to add and remove botanicals during a run. I haven't built one yet, but I have a nice piece of 4" copper I could use.

The worst thing you can do with some of them, is put them in the aging jar. Orange is bad for clarity, but coffee beans seem to be ok.

Uh oh, you've given me ideas!
Experiment brewing in my head, hmmmm.... This could be interesting!

NZC is a very thoughtful and intelligent man, whose hardware is well in advance of most of us. Clearly he is well ahead as well in experience and knowledge of the finer points of the art !

Great to see you joining in on the thread NB - c'mon mate - "spill the beanz"

Pikey wrote:It would take me less than 60 seconds to shut down, add or remove a botanicals bag and start her up again. Certainly citrus comes over well using this method, although it does impart a slight "tinge" to the distillate.

Be careful with that as it can cause clouding. Good for Absinthe maybe, but this is about rum. You either need to move the bag further away from the output, or introduce some centrifugal action above the botanicals to separate any droplets in the vapor.

I use a longish bit of wire NZC - maybe longer still next time

Missus is now moaning about the "Funny smell" in back room. It's fermenting away fine, but is quite a bit "thicker" than I expected. I do hope it thins a bit as it uses the sugar, or scorching may be an issue

To centrifuge any droplets out of the vapor, try sitting a spinner on the wire above the bag. I sometimes use a copper disk that is a close fit in the riser, cut and twisted into a propeller to force the vapor to spin on its way up.

You never cease to amaze me Chris

The come in spinner column eh

NZChris wrote:

Pikey wrote:It would take me less than 60 seconds to shut down, add or remove a botanicals bag and start her up again. Certainly citrus comes over well using this method, although it does impart a slight "tinge" to the distillate.

Be careful with that as it can cause clouding. Good for Absinthe maybe, but this is about rum. You either need to move the bag further away from the output, or introduce some centrifugal action above the botanicals to separate any droplets in the vapor.

why? for rum, you're likely to age it on oak, which will give the cloudiness time to settle. i would rather pull the turpines across and have an abundance of flavor than worry about cloudiness.

I wouldn't assume that the tinge Pikey gets is terpenes.

good point, but I am still not convinced about lowering the basket or 'spinning' droplets out of the vapor.

wiifm wrote:good point, but I am still not convinced about lowering the basket or 'spinning' droplets out of the vapor.

I don't imagine there is much colored stuff in a boiler or gin basket that is capable of being distilled by evaporation and condensing at the temperatures we use, so my assumption is that a tinge is an indication that components in the gin basket are being carried over with the vapour, not as vapour.

The "Tinge" I got was quite slight and there was no sign of any cloudiness even when held in glass for a few weeks. When I think about it, my column is narrow (1") and I used it just because I had 1" to hand when I built it, even though I had been informed that 2" would give a lower vapour velocity. I have had no other issues with it over the years, but it is quite possible that something in the "bag" did in fact get carried over by the strongish vapour stream (running 1500-2000 watts.)

{Edit - I shall try the basket lower, and possibly try making one of those "spinners" - but failing that, I'm not that worried about it in gin, so in a spirit destined to be oaked and "Dyed black", it wouldn't be an issue unless I though it could be harmful - thanks for the suggestions lads }

Been out and bought a bottle of Diageo "Captain Morgan Original" Unlike the bottle on their website (1970 Seagrams) it does not say "Jamaica" -it says "Original" - "distilled in the Carribean" - "Matured and bottled in UK " - fills you full of confidence

On the plus side - it was cheap ! "on special" at Sainsbury - reduced from £17 to £14 ! - tasting shortly

Have some virginal Druids break the seal on that during the vernal equinox for added luck.
Is this it?

Pikey wrote:The "Tinge" I got was quite slight and there was no sign of any cloudiness even when held in glass for a few weeks. When I think about it, my column is narrow (1") and I used it just because I had 1" to hand when I built it, even though I had been informed that 2" would give a lower vapour velocity. I have had no other issues with it over the years, but it is quite possible that something in the "bag" did in fact get carried over by the strongish vapour stream (running 1500-2000 watts.)

I'm surprised the bag isn't being carried over

Still Life wrote:Have some virginal Druids break the seal on that during the vernal equinox for added luck.
Is this it?

Captain Morgan.jpg

Yes that's the one SL

I'm not waiting til bloody September to sample it! and I don't want any "Virginals" around - this is not going to be some delicate little "panty dropper" - I want some who've danced naked around a good many tribal fires, crushed some skulls and know about the "Black arts" - who can read entrails and cast bones.

Good idea to ask for Pagan assistance tho' perhaps at the Summer Solstice ? Anyone know of a friendly coven in uk who might be interested in helping out ?

Well at 40% it's very sharp, stings the lips and there does seem to be some fruityness in the very background.
Diluted a little to around 25%, if there is any fruitiness, it could be dates or "red" raisins, Still stings the lips a little - most of the real taste I am getting is remarkably similar to the Muscovado sugar. It's nowhere near as dark as I remember and does not bring up any memories or feelings, except that it might be rather closer to the "own brand" dark rums from Aldi and the like. I am not getting any "treacle" taste of molasses and much of the sharpness is gone. whether that came from "Heads", I'm not sure - although I've said before I recognised tastes in both heads and tails of my "light rum", which I identified in my "memory rum" - I am Not sure I'm finding them in here. This could just as easily be a "spiced and flavoured neutral".

I shall try it more over the coming days, I'm wanting to get towards this as a base, but I'm looking to do much more "fruity" and maybe less "stinging lips".

NZChris wrote:
....I'm surprised the bag isn't being carried over

Perhaps I'll give little propellor thingy a miss then . Don't want it taking off and flying around

I wouldn't put any amount of botanicals in a 1" pipe and blow 2000W worth of vapor through it. Mine is at the other end of extreme, a 6" basket running between 90W and 240W, depending on what I'm making.

Lots to taste here... single servings to keep the cost down too... https://www.masterofmalt.com/samples/rum-samples/1/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Just making a note of ShineOn's great thread thread for future reference in my quest here

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p7477491

Just been up and stuck a finger in the ferment. It's quite thick and tastes quite bitter - like old flat "Heavy" beer of the Guinness type - treacle taste is evident and when I put my ear into the stopper hole, I can just hear the "Rice crispy sound" so it's still fermenting a bit. Nearly over though, so it will be run soon.

Going by your link, how much would you up ShineOn's molasses by? And what size ferment?

Still Life wrote:Going by your link, how much would you up ShineOn's molasses by? And what size ferment?

Not sure SL but I've spread my ingredients so far across a number of posts - I'll consolidate here so it's visible to all and for my own future reference !

[Edit - RECIPE ]

Pikey wrote: I have put the backset (From a very light "Bacardi-ish" rum) in the fermenter - around 10 litres I think. I did taste it and was quite surprised at how sour it was.
So we went in with 3 litres of molasses @ 40% sucrose and 2.168 kg of muscavado, Hot water and when it cools a little nutrient and yeast. - then we'll see how it goes. May add some more sugar yet, when I work out how much is in there ! (Thanks here to der wo for advising that molasses weighs 1.3-1.5 kg/litre)
Thanks der wo - at 40%, if I take it as 1.4 kg that gives me 3.82 kg total sugar (unless that muscavado is not all sugar)
A few grammes over 1 kg more muscovado just added, around 12 g of Tronozymol, 20 minutes airstone and 5 g Gervin G4 (26) yeast.
So total sugars around 5 kg and Water to make up to 25 Litres (about 6.25 US Gallons I believe)

ah, yes. Just saw your update over yonder, too.