blind drunk wrote:Happened to me recently on a sugar head with spent grains. I though I had the nutrients covered because the wash was sitting on the spent grain of two mashes. First I added a small can of tomato paste and then another one. Stirred them in good. Smell dissipated pretty quickly.
"BD" Ok so for a recap, have you ever reused the lees and backset in multiple ferments with tomato paste?
Odin... Whats your take?
ps. the previous ferments just spent 11 days under airlock and smell of a nice grain beer! This was without the use of tomato paste. not sure what just happened do you think its ok to reuse the yeast cake and corn?
I leave the yeast&grain bed in the fermenter. Take out the beer and distill. Use like 33% of backset in starting up a new ferment on top of that old yeast&grain bed. 33% means: If I add a total of say 6 gallons of water, now I would add 2 gallons of backset (what stays in the boiler after you distilled) and 4 gallons of water.
I use the hot backset to melt new sugar & swell the new grain (I replace like 20%/25% per fermentation). Apart from melting/swelling, the backset gives me a lower PH. And it introduces lots of flavour & nutrients (cooked grains & cooked dead yeast cells) for the new fermentation.
On occasions I have added some yeast nutrients as well (like the tomato paste in your example). I found that taste might actually be a bit less. Not 100% sure, but it felt like the yeast had to work the corn (or whatever grain) a bit more without extra yeast nutrients there. Maybe my presumption only. Anyhow, I now only add nutrients on generation 1. For gen 2 and further it is the grain and backset that supplies plenty.
Odin.
"Great art is created only through diligent and painstaking effort to perfect and polish oneself." by Buddhist filosofer Daisaku Ikeda.
hmm, when i replace the spent corn with new corn, i put it right into the cooled down mash. Maybe i should start dropping it into the hot stuff and i'll start seeing some flavor.
Just started my very first 15 gallon batch of Uncle jessie's simlpe sour mash!!!!! Im very excited my main water supply is a natural spring that bubbles up cold and clean from the mountains of the pacific north west!!!! I got it mix up got the yeast pitched and it day 2 of it bubbling away so i took some pix's!!!!
I am doing my first UJSSM. I am fermenting 5 gallons. I already ran my first run. I loaded my backset and feints. I added a little corn and my sugar. I also added about a teaspoon of fleishmann yeast. I was out of town, so let it sit for about 8 days. I checked it and it tasted sweet. I did a reading and it came up at 1.050. Should I have added more yeast? Can I save it? Should I just add more yeast and see what happens? I was under the impression that I didn't need to add more yeast. I hope I didn't screw this up. Any input would be great.
"BD" Ok so for a recap, have you ever reused the lees and backset in multiple ferments with tomato paste?
Sorry for the delay, I missed your post. Only did it the one time, as the grains had already been used for a mash. Probably do it one more time, next time. Don't think it's an all fix, but worked in my case.
Tuckerroach wrote:I am doing my first UJSSM. I am fermenting 5 gallons. I already ran my first run. I loaded my backset and feints.
Are you saying you put the feints in the ferment?
I added a little corn and my sugar. I also added about a teaspoon of fleishmann yeast. I was out of town, so let it sit for about 8 days. I checked it and it tasted sweet. I did a reading and it came up at 1.050. Should I have added more yeast? Can I save it? Should I just add more yeast and see what happens? Add more yeast stir it up reeeal good and see what happens
I was under the impression that I didn't need to add more yeast. I hope I didn't screw this up. Any input would be great.
If yu added your feints to the wash all you are doing is uping the alcohol in the wash.
Not a good thing as the yeast has to cope with the extra alcohol and it may give off flavours as the yeast gets stressed.
The feints are added to the wash just as it goes into the boiler to be distilled.
For your ferments remember happy yeast makes for good spirit.
Unhappy yeast and you are getting off flavours that you will need to remove later.
All the best with your ferment.
TAF
We haven't got the money so now we have to think
Build it, don't buy it
Tuckerroach wrote:I am doing my first UJSSM. I am fermenting 5 gallons. I already ran my first run. I loaded my backset and feints.
Are you saying you put the feints in the ferment?
I added a little corn and my sugar. I also added about a teaspoon of fleishmann yeast. I was out of town, so let it sit for about 8 days. I checked it and it tasted sweet. I did a reading and it came up at 1.050. Should I have added more yeast? Can I save it? Should I just add more yeast and see what happens? Add more yeast stir it up reeeal good and see what happens
I was under the impression that I didn't need to add more yeast. I hope I didn't screw this up. Any input would be great.
If yu added your feints to the wash all you are doing is uping the alcohol in the wash.
Not a good thing as the yeast has to cope with the extra alcohol and it may give off flavours as the yeast gets stressed.
The feints are added to the wash just as it goes into the boiler to be distilled.
I screwed up. I put the feints in with the ferment and topped it off with distilled water. Should I just toss the ferment and start over? I don't want to ruin the taste down the road. Or, add more yeast. Run it if it gets below 1.00 and use the product to clean my next still. Shoot....I was so close to tasting my first product.
For your ferments remember happy yeast makes for good spirit.
Unhappy yeast and you are getting off flavours that you will need to remove later.
All the best with your ferment.
TAF
I screwed up. I put the feints in with the ferment and topped it off with distilled water. Should I just toss the ferment and start over? I don't want to ruin the taste down the road. Or, add more yeast. Run it if it gets below 1.00 and use the product to clean my next still. Shoot....I was so close to tasting my first product.
Hang in there.
There is no need to toss the ferment.
Just add heaps of yeast and stir it up, leave it sit and see what happens.
You have nothing to lose doing that now.
If it kicks off you're safe.
Wait till it stops fermenting and run it.
While the extra alcohol in the feints will make life a bit tough for the yeast it will still be miles above any turbo.
TAF
PS You can add colour to your text to show what you are writing within my post - quote.
Look at the middle of the bar above the text you are writing and it has a button marked "font colour"
We haven't got the money so now we have to think
Build it, don't buy it
Titus-a-fishus wrote:Hang in there.
There is no need to toss the ferment.
Just add heaps of yeast and stir it up, leave it sit and see what happens.
You have nothing to lose doing that now.
If it kicks off you're safe.
Wait till it stops fermenting and run it.
While the extra alcohol in the feints will make life a bit tough for the yeast it will still be miles above any turbo.
TAF
PS You can add colour to your text to show what you are writing within my post - quote.
Look at the middle of the bar above the text you are writing and it has a button marked "font colour"
Thanks for the help. Still no bubbles. I put three table spoons in a 5 gallon batch. I am going to add more and see what happens.
Quick question...i have been doing this simple sour mash a
lmost exclusively, and I run my stripping runs pretty hard and fast. I start out with clear distillate but I usually start getting some fairly cloudy tails around 40 to 35 percent, sometimes higher. Do you guys run your stripping runs this hard or do you run slower to avoid cloudy tails? I always just assumed that since I will double distill, I just clean it up with a nice slow spirit run. Running my strips hard and fast into cloudy tails isn't detrimental to good flavor as opposed to making a slower strip run is it?
the pure drop wrote:Quick question...i have been doing this simple sour mash a
lmost exclusively, and I run my stripping runs pretty hard and fast. I start out with clear distillate but I usually start getting some fairly cloudy tails around 40 to 35 percent, sometimes higher. Do you guys run your stripping runs this hard or do you run slower to avoid cloudy tails? I always just assumed that since I will double distill, I just clean it up with a nice slow spirit run. Running my strips hard and fast into cloudy tails isn't detrimental to good flavor as opposed to making a slower strip run is it?
Good question. I have a pretty meager condenser, so I can't run it faster if I wanted to (without losing vapor), but I never get any cloudiness down to 10%, It gets a bit oily, but never cloudy. I've wondered myself if I'm running TOO slow, and leaving too much in the pot.
It takes me about 3 hours to strip 3 gallons (after heating for an hour). Not sure how that compares.
If it boils in your boiler, you are not letting any alcohol behind. Slower boiling means a longer strip run. Faster strip run, means you get more smearing of heads/tails/hearts. And you may get over some solids, if it really boils up.
A lot of people strip as hard as they can (question on power AND cooling capacity). I like to do mine a bit faster than a pot still spirit run, but not that fast. As an indication: on a 20 liter charge I think I strip at around 1,250 to 1,400 watts max. But others will do it differently.
Odin.
"Great art is created only through diligent and painstaking effort to perfect and polish oneself." by Buddhist filosofer Daisaku Ikeda.
Cloudiness at some point during a stripping run is nothing to worry about. I sometimes get it at the beginning, sometimes toward the end. It always cleans up during the spirit run, but it still appears towards the end. But because everything is in small jars, unlike in the stripping run, you don't have too worry about it ruining your final cut.
Titus-a-fishus wrote:Hang in there.
There is no need to toss the ferment.
Just add heaps of yeast and stir it up, leave it sit and see what happens.
You have nothing to lose doing that now.
If it kicks off you're safe.
Wait till it stops fermenting and run it.
While the extra alcohol in the feints will make life a bit tough for the yeast it will still be miles above any turbo.
TAF
PS You can add colour to your text to show what you are writing within my post - quote.
Look at the middle of the bar above the text you are writing and it has a button marked "font colour"
Thanks for the help. Still no bubbles. I put three table spoons in a 5 gallon batch. I am going to add more and see what happens.
Still no fermentation. Would it be ok to save the corn and just start over with sugar, water and yeast?
Tuckerroach wrote:I am doing my first UJSSM. I am fermenting 5 gallons. I already ran my first run. I loaded my backset and feints. I added a little corn and my sugar. I also added about a teaspoon of fleishmann yeast. I was out of town, so let it sit for about 8 days. I checked it and it tasted sweet. I did a reading and it came up at 1.050. Should I have added more yeast? Can I save it? Should I just add more yeast and see what happens? I was under the impression that I didn't need to add more yeast. I hope I didn't screw this up. Any input would be great.
If it's not too late, you can split the wash in two and building both up to the 5 gallon mark. This might bring the abv low enough to get the ferment going. Might be a save.
Tuckerroach wrote:I am doing my first UJSSM. I am fermenting 5 gallons. I already ran my first run. I loaded my backset and feints. I added a little corn and my sugar. I also added about a teaspoon of fleishmann yeast. I was out of town, so let it sit for about 8 days. I checked it and it tasted sweet. I did a reading and it came up at 1.050. Should I have added more yeast? Can I save it? Should I just add more yeast and see what happens? I was under the impression that I didn't need to add more yeast. I hope I didn't screw this up. Any input would be great.
If it's not too late, you can split the wash in two and building both up to the 5 gallon mark. This might bring the abv low enough to get the ferment going. Might be a save.
If I do this should I add sugar or yeast? Or, just add distilled water to each container.
Hey BD
Split the wash
Damn why didn't I think of that?
Too early in the morning..... that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.
Tuckerroach
In a 25ltr bucket you would normally have 4kg of sugar.
So depending on how much sugar you added to the original wash will depend on how much you will add to each of the two fermenters.
If you don't add extra sugar you will just get a lower alcohol wash....
Which in this case may be a good thing as it seems you have added a large amount of feints.
Try it without adding any sugar and see if by adding just water and then yeast the ferment starts.
Then decide from there.
TAF
We haven't got the money so now we have to think
Build it, don't buy it
I would just do water, like Titus suggests, just in case. Might be a low yield, so if you don't mind taking that chance. How does the wash smell? Has it gone sideways in any way? If it has, it might not be worth it. Something you're gonna have to decide.
Titus-a-fishus wrote:Hey BD
Split the wash
Damn why didn't I think of that?
Too early in the morning..... that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.
Tuckerroach
In a 25ltr bucket you would normally have 4kg of sugar.
So depending on how much sugar you added to the original wash will depend on how much you will add to each of the two fermenters.
If you don't add extra sugar you will just get a lower alcohol wash....
Which in this case may be a good thing as it seems you have added a large amount of feints.
Try it without adding any sugar and see if by adding just water and then yeast the ferment starts.
Then decide from there.
TAF It smells fine and tastes ok. It is just sweet. I am going to split it tonight. I'll let you guys know. Thanks to you and BD for the help. I really dribbled down my leg on this one. Let's see what happens. If not, I'll start another batch.
Has anyone found that subsequent rounds get more cloudy (prior to settling). I havent noticed it before. I started a round two weeks ago and my new ferment started fermenting within 30" of adding the cooled solution. It's fermenting great but the solution is very cloudy. It maybe just related to higher yeast count and will settle out but curious if anyone noticed this.
Odin wrote:If it boils in your boiler, you are not letting any alcohol behind. Slower boiling means a longer strip run. Faster strip run, means you get more smearing of heads/tails/hearts. And you may get over some solids, if it really boils up.
A lot of people strip as hard as they can (question on power AND cooling capacity). I like to do mine a bit faster than a pot still spirit run, but not that fast. As an indication: on a 20 liter charge I think I strip at around 1,250 to 1,400 watts max. But others will do it differently.
Odin.
I wasn't worried about leaving alcohol behind, I was talking about leaving FLAVOR behind by not entraining enough of it in the flow. By NOT smearing the tails into the heads, the tails portion gets smaller, right?
So similarly, running the tails portion faster would smear the cloudy deep tails into the "normal" tails.
I suspect that there's a benefit to running the stripping run faster to carry over more flavor.
Not really. You can run it fast to safe time. You can run it slower. Faster will give you more smearing, but not more taste, because you don't make cuts on your stripping run. In fact, running it slower may improve taste. If your potstill head is made of copper, a slower strip run will give the gasses more coper/gass contact, reducing levels of sulphurics present.
"Great art is created only through diligent and painstaking effort to perfect and polish oneself." by Buddhist filosofer Daisaku Ikeda.
Odin wrote:Not really. You can run it fast to safe time. You can run it slower. Faster will give you more smearing, but not more taste, because you don't make cuts on your stripping run. In fact, running it slower may improve taste. If your potstill head is made of copper, a slower strip run will give the gasses more coper/gass contact, reducing levels of sulphurics present.
Thanks for the info. Is there any issue with overcondensing (too cool)? I read somewhere that leaving the drips warm was better.
I read that too. Especially on people using for instance a Boka LM fractionating still. On a pot still I don't know of any advantages. On both my CM fractionating rig and my potstill, I like to run things in a way that the distilate comes out cool. Less evaporation, less hazzard.
Odin.
"Great art is created only through diligent and painstaking effort to perfect and polish oneself." by Buddhist filosofer Daisaku Ikeda.
I split my batch into two 5 gal batches. I added water and yeast. It is bubbling away quite nicely. I think I am going to run both ferments through, condense the corn back into one 5 gal fermenter, add backset, yeast and sugar and use the next batch as a finished product. Thanks for the help.
I run two side by side 5 gal washes. I still the 10 gal on Sunday and add sugar/backset and repeat the following week. Ihis gives me about 1.5 gal a week. I oak 1/2 and leave 1/2 as neutral. I repeat this for 5-6 wks then take a couple of months off. It's a great way to stock pile. I find with a good stock pile, it's easy to be patient.
my main water supply is a natural spring that bubbles up cold and clean from the mountains of the pacific north west!!!! I got it mix up got the yeast pitched and it day 2 of it bubbling away 
so i took some pix's!!!!
