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Muddog

Thanks, I ordered the 40a with rheostat

Mud dog

I like that the rheostat is matched to the SSR or in this case SSR SSVR. Iv been reading a lot all over. From what I gather for the best control and range the SSVR is the way to go. I'll let you know how it works out.

Epic thread! Took me two days to get through it.

I have to say, there's been infinite patience shown over a few questions like "Why won't my PID controller work?" and "Why won't my $6 SSR work when I hook a potentiometer to it?" Maybe I missed it, but a heater controller FAQ would be awesome.

Controllable SSR's - There ARE some quality proportional control SSR's out there on eBay and similar... I've just been burned too much by Chinese knock-offs, so I looked for a quality brand and found a Crydom RPC-2440 (240V, 40A) for $34.

http://www.crydom.com/en/Products/Catalog/r_pc.pdf

I won't hesitate to buy things like heat sinks and cabinets from China, so that's where those are coming from.

I think one place where guys might be having trouble is in the potentiometer. Many of the cheap pots have tolerances of 10%, 20%, or worse. A 3% pot isn't that much more. I also really like the notion of a "trimmer" pot in the circuit as well, if one can be found with a correct wattage rating. Once tested, it can be smeared with some loc-tite and left inside the cabinet.

Has anyone tried one of the push-button digital pots? I'm tempted, but they are not cheap, and it's probably just a gimmick. But talk about repeatable. Another option is a good grade of 10-turn pot. These usually come with a counter dial and are usually very accurate.

Bruster wrote:Mud dog

I like that the rheostat is matched to the SSR or in this case SSR SSVR. Iv been reading a lot all over. From what I gather for the best control and range the SSVR is the way to go. I'll let you know how it works out.

Bruster, keep us posted. I am interested in knowing how it works out.
Please start a new thread for this ,so people don't have to go to page 49 or wherever we're at on this thread. Don't get me wrong , this is a great thread , but I think this is a good simple solution and I believe it needs it's own thread.
Did you order a heat sink with it ? Are you planning on mounting in a box or external ? They generate a good bit of heat if your running at higher wattages, so consider this when you are mounting.
If you have any questions, post em, we're here to help. I 'd like to see this work.
Some of the pros out there ,what do you think about this ? muddog

I second this - wish we could split this up into 120/240 builds (and appropriate sub topics within). Or (and I'm probably way of target here), clearly stating that using a build for 240 is safe for standard 120 service would be super helpful for some of us noobs. I have a lot of faith in my ability to run my stills, but little faith in my ability to build electronics :-(

(I say this as if the forum moderators don't have day jobs, stills to run, families, etc)

raven_r_one wrote:I second this - wish we could split this up into 120/240 builds (and appropriate sub topics within). Or (and I'm probably way of target here), clearly stating that using a build for 240 is safe for standard 120 service would be super helpful for some of us noobs. I have a lot of faith in my ability to run my stills, but little faith in my ability to build electronics :-(

Good point, Raven. What we really need is a separate forum for gas brewing & one for electric brewing ,excuse me, distilling. If you look at the hbf , you will easily find a great deal of useful knowledge that can be adapted to distilling. They have a forum for each brewing style. They have some good gas & electric set ups that will work for us . I understand we can't control temps, but there are a lot of electric and gas ideas that can be adapted.
We have a forum for a pot still and one for the other, I don't what it is (column still?). I think it's time for a forum on electric and gas systems. We are at page 50 on the simple idea of electric temp control. Maybe it's something to consider. Muddog

I agree wholeheartedly that this can be hugely confusing for the new hobbyist. I think one of the problems is that a schematic that is perfectly clear and obvious for one person is gibberish for the next, and sourcing parts can be a real challenge. Also, not everyone is comfortable working with this sort of thing. Throw in different country electrical codes... I think the USA has an oddball thing going with 240V (Hot Hot Ground), 240/120 (Hot Hot Neutral Ground), and 120 (Hot Neutral Ground) - so a schematic designed for USA wiring might not be compatible with Europe, Oz, etc.

After pondering this for a couple of weeks now, I'm thinking it is almost impossible to go wrong with a good-quality phase-angle controller SSR, with a potentiometer on the control side of the relay. I was really excited to see these things selling for $15 U.S. on FleaBay, until someone reported that there's a good chance they are frauds in the sense that you might get a 10 amp unit labeled for 40 amps. But with a reputable unit at the heart, a potentiometer, heat sink, maybe a fan, I think success is almost assured.

The Triac circuits I'm sure work great, and would definitely be the way to go if on a budget, but can be intimidating for a non-electrical hobbyist.

When my Crydom relay arrives, I'm going to bread board it with a couple of the cheap Chinese volt/ammeters, and try some potentiometer variations. One nice addition, if one can't get a 10-turn pot or similar, would be a coarse/fine control consisting of two potentiometers. I'll snap some pics on the way and do a mini build thread if guys are interested.

every time the 2 pot idea surfaces again I wonder the same thing....why. Single pot will give you .1 amp adjustability

Just to chime in... Over on another forum I found that Auberinstraments is selling a 25a and a 40a SSR rheostat combo matched to each other. I ordered it and will ket you know how it goes. A person named Pogdon took a simple drawing from PJ's works and slightly modified it. He has already posted a curve on how well it works. Not sure if I'm allowed to mention the other forum or post drawings from their. Let me know. I'd be happy to share.

bellybuster wrote:every time the 2 pot idea surfaces again I wonder the same thing....why. Single pot will give you .1 amp adjustability

Well, I think it can vary quite a bit depending upon the SSR, the potentiometer, and the tolerances. Some pots are +/- 10%, others up to 30%. Some users apparently found that they were missing range on the low end, the high end, or both.

If an additional $3 pot can fix some of the issues, why not? Worst case... cut it out and save it for another project. That's why I plan on breadboarding mine before I make a nice cabinet for it.

I don't understand the need for two pots either. If a single pot doesn't give you a fine enough adjustment. You have the wrong pot.

And us 220v wiring isn't as hard as everyone makes it out to be. Two hot wires gives you 220v. A hot wire an neutral cuts it in half to 110v. It's not rocket surgery.

I think a lot of the problems people have with the range of there controller, especially at one end of the range, has to do with there potentiometer not being of the linear variety. If you get a logarithmic or volume control potentiometer then depending on how you hook it up either the top or bottom of the range will be compressed and be very hard to finely adjust.

Just my thoughts anyways...

-Litebread

I have a few post-build comments. I LOVE the controller I built. It works great. However, if I had to do it again I would simplify it some, and for someone looking for a controller that works really well but doesn't break the bank, I think this is a good option. For 240V.

What I put on my controller:
- 40A SSR mounted on heat sink
- 450k ohm pot
- volt/ammeter
- master on/off switch
- relay bypass switch (intent here was to reduce heat by bypassing relay during initial heat up phase)
- ammeter on/off switch
- female outlet (on boiler side of the box)
- metal junction box
- 240v computer fan
- fan hole screen

If I did it again, I would do a few things differently.

- PVC instead of metal housing box. Metal looks great now, but it was a b*tch to cut and drill
- Go without the fan, I really don't think it needs it. Save $15
- No fan means no screen, save $5
- Go without the ammeter. It's "cool" but you don't really need it at all, save $15-20
- Take out the ammeter on/off switch, save $3 and extra drilling, soldering, wire, etc
- Take out the relay bypass switch, save space and save $7

If I built another, I would order:
- a cheap SSR mounted to heat sink,
- a smaller PVC junction box,
- a female outlet (I love the ability to plug into the controller instead of having long cable attached to both sides.
- a pot
- and a master on/off switch

Those parts and some short lengths of wire to go from the pot to the SSR would run you less than $50 total, and give you a very easy to wire, easy to build, easy to operate controller.

DoublyDooble wrote:
If I built another, I would order:
- a cheap SSR mounted to heat sink,
- a smaller PVC junction box,
- a female outlet (I love the ability to plug into the controller instead of having long cable attached to both sides.
- a pot
- and a master on/off switch

Those parts and some short lengths of wire to go from the pot to the SSR would run you less than $50 total, and give you a very easy to wire, easy to build, easy to operate controller.

Hi all,

I'm looking at building a controller and I've read a lot of this thread and researched the process.
Unfortunately, I'm a bit confused.

I'm thinking...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Blue-Digital- ... 565c80ccd4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
And
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AC-110V-120V- ... 2569d13de3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I'll probably tart it up a bit with a case, female plug socket, on/off switch and a fan. (Rather be safe, and I have one kicking around)

Isn't that all I need? Or have I missed something?

I'm from UK so 240 volts.

Thanks,

Matilda

Matilda,

I guess it depends on what wattage element you're going to be using, which should somewhat be determined by what size boiler you're using. Personally I have a 4500W element, but only b/c I was limited to a 20A circuit. If I had a 30A circuit I would have went with a 5500W element. That controller you listed there may work, I don't really know, but it's limited to 3800W.

This is what I went with. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008DF ... UTF8&psc=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

You really don't need the ammeter. If you want it, go for it, but it will require a bigger box, another cut, and extra wiring.

Also, if you go with a small box you can put the female end on a short pigtail if you don't have space to put the outlet in the box.

I have a 3kw heater and a 50l keg.
I know it's not that powerful, but once it's up to temp it should be loads.
If it's really slow I might add a secondary heater later on.

I like the idea of having a box with a plug socket to plug the heater into. I also like the idea of having the digital display to show me what power I'm running at. I'm thinking of having a "missile control" on/off switch maybe some lights and stuff... Kinda fancy having a bit of fun with it you know...

I like the look of yours, it seems a lot better quality. I also need the potentiometer with that though?


With http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AC-110V-120V- ... 2569d13de3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow It's all in one, isn't it?

Am I right in thinking that....all I actually need is the device on the above eBay link? The rest is unnecessary extras/tarting?

I don't know enough about electronics just by looking at it to know how it works. If it works by chopping the sine wave in adjustable increments per the Pot, then it should work fine. Yes, you have to buy the pot with the SSR that I used, but a pack of 5 was like $3 u.s., so not a big deal. When you get it put together take some pictures and let us know how it's working for ya!

Matilda wrote: With http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AC-110V-120V- ... 2569d13de3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow It's all in one, isn't it?

Am I right in thinking that....all I actually need is the device on the above eBay link? The rest is unnecessary extras/tarting?

I would order a much higher watt rating controller. Those Chinese controllers tend to have very weak traces. The 10000 watt one is usually the same price or a bit more and has much beefier traces. Yes they are all in one, the pot is attached. The heat sinks are quite small so I would add a fan

DoublyDooble wrote:
If I built another, I would order:
- a cheap SSR mounted to heat sink,
- a smaller PVC junction box,
- a female outlet (I love the ability to plug into the controller instead of having long cable attached to both sides.
- a pot
- and a master on/off switch

Those parts and some short lengths of wire to go from the pot to the SSR would run you less than $50 total, and give you a very easy to wire, easy to build, easy to operate controller.

I think you have some good thoughts here, even though I haven't started mine... still in the design and parts stage, but I've done a number of other DIY SSR projects, PID controllers and the like.

A nice bare bones device would have what you listed... the SSR device, a pot, one measuring device (like an analog voltmeter), and a switch. But something we must keep in mind is the type of switch and where it's located. If the device is a 120V 15A setup, then a good wall switch would work, but I'd be nervous even at those power levels. When you have 5 kilowatts and 240V, a switch (if in the mains line) must be able to deal with that sort of power.

I think I am going to use a miniature circuit breaker both as a switch, and to provide some protection. A two-pole device like this one will cut both hot lines of a 240V USA wiring. I'd size it a few amps higher than the max load expected so as to avoid nuisance trips.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/161230380982?

Circuit breakers are not normally used as switches, but this sort of switch doesn't see a high duty cycle, and they are pretty cheap from China.

Guys...too much thinking going on here. It's a heating element on a pot. Full throttle until fores then dial it back a bit until it slows to what you want or leave it wide open to strip.

I got the still dragon controller;
http://www.stilldragon.com/diy-controller.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

It got 49 giggley poops and 900 wangamathingies but most important to me..IT'S MADE TO RUN A 220V/5500W ELEMENT IN A POT STILL!

I don't have to know how many ohms or watts or snaggledy hoops or whatever. It's made explicitely to do this job and it cost $31.00US
Just buy the stupid thing and assemble it, DONE!

Yes it really is that simple.

Here's mine, I added a 12v cell phone charger I had laying around to run a computer fan I had laying around. The instruction that are included are dirt simple.

Notice there are no neon lights or pretty guages, or even a scale on the dial??? I use it wide open until the worm is hot all the way to the bucket and I'm hearing gurgling sounds, fores are about 30 seconds away. Dial it back "a bit" and after fores adjust up or down for speed.

Canada is the same as US, two hot 110 leads and a neutral and a ground. I used the two 110 hot leads as my 220, and the green ground I fastened to the pot as a safety ground. The white "neutral" I left unhooked as there is no need for it.

Potstills are run by "feel" not numbers on a dial. I was going to scale my dial from 0-13 instead of 0-10 just so I'd have more power! And if you get that joke, you understand why it's unnecessary to go overboard with gadgets.
Imagine driving an old truck through the wide open prairies, nothing for hundreds of miles in any direction, how fast are you going? Who cares, you drive as fast as it "feels" right. You don't need a speedometer because it doesn't matter. Potstill is the same.

How many guages are there on a propane set up? Then how do you know to turn it up or down????

Yes, it is that simple. Order it from stilldragon or anyone else who sells these things and buy the complete kit. If your an electrical wiz or want to play with electrical stuff, by all means get your 39 wazzoo gumption retractor and your 780 gigabit electron stimulator along with the custom dials/guages/lights and chrome spinner wheels.

Liking this controller

Hi all,

I'm looking for potentiometers and have a question... I see that folk are recommending a B500K 2W pot... there are heaps of 1/2 watt out there. what is the difference between the two? can you use the 1/2 watt one?

Cheers

goingbroke2, will that work for a 120v setup? I don't want to do 220. Do you have a build thread somewhere?
Thanks

Some of us, and I know I am, get as much of a buzz out of fabrication as anything else. I am not overcomplicating mine because I am afraid I cannot distill without it, I'm doing it for the pure joy of engineering. I actually enjoy thinking about how to improve a circuit. Yesterday, I was thinking "A DPDT switch should allow me to swap between two pots so I can use the controller for both 120 and 240, since they require different pot values."

Kind of like a guy that builds a hot rod. " Why not just go to the dealer and buy a car? Now you can just go drive." But it's the fabrication that appeals.

I suspect that I won't need the bells and whistles.... But I like them.

crazyk78 wrote:Hi all,

I'm looking for potentiometers and have a question... I see that folk are recommending a B500K 2W pot... there are heaps of 1/2 watt out there. what is the difference between the two? can you use the 1/2 watt one?

Cheers

Most controllers will do just fine with a 1/2W but they could fail if there is a current surge through the circuit... It's perfectly ok to start small and increase upon failure, if you don't mind an interrupted run...

Deezil wrote:goingbroke2, will that work for a 120v setup? I don't want to do 220. Do you have a build thread somewhere?
Thanks

No actually I bought mine and was about to post a thread and seen somebody beat me to it by about 5hr's or so.
As far as 110v or 220v, it's the exact same, just it would be running half power. (and you probably wouldn't need such a big ssr) One of you electro-geeks can correct me if I'm wrong.

The downside to 110v is it takes twice the amps to do the same thing. Picture electricity like water in a garden hose. The more pressure (volts) the farther or harder it pushes, but the volume (amps) is what gets things done. Sure you can fill a bucket in one minute with a 1/8" hose, but you'll need like 300lb's of pressure to do it. (get that volume) Conversely, using a 4" hose you only need 2lb's pressure to fill the bucket in a minute. Both will fill the bucket in a minute but the 1/8" hose at 300lb's stands a bigger chance of bursting a line/having issues/etc (electricity jumps or sparks due to voltage "pressure")

BigSwede wrote:Some of us, and I know I am, get as much of a buzz out of fabrication as anything else. I am not overcomplicating mine because I am afraid I cannot distill without it, I'm doing it for the pure joy of engineering. I actually enjoy thinking about how to improve a circuit. Yesterday, I was thinking "A DPDT switch should allow me to swap between two pots so I can use the controller for both 120 and 240, since they require different pot values."

Kind of like a guy that builds a hot rod. " Why not just go to the dealer and buy a car? Now you can just go drive." But it's the fabrication that appeals.

I suspect that I won't need the bells and whistles.... But I like them.

I agree 100%! I build dragsters/engines/etc and love it. My comment was to the guy who sounded exasperated after reading a million pages and having a hundred different ways to go and was a little overwhelmed. I started looking for ssr's and pots and a box, and...ah frig it, I just bought the kit. Yes I could of found the stuff for cheaper on e-bay or wherever but I just chose simplicity.(like I think he was looking for)

I grind my own valves too but while I might look at a car and say, meh, pull the head and give it a 5 angle cut with a .030 backcut on the intakes, other's might go...umm, take it to the garage instead of trying to learn how.

In hindsight, I'm so glad I just got the kit and assembled it, I have too many other projects on the go at any one time.
It's all good though, there are many roads that lead to this madness called distilling.

rad14701 wrote:

crazyk78 wrote:Hi all,

I'm looking for potentiometers and have a question... I see that folk are recommending a B500K 2W pot... there are heaps of 1/2 watt out there. what is the difference between the two? can you use the 1/2 watt one?

Cheers

Most controllers will do just fine with a 1/2W but they could fail if there is a current surge through the circuit... It's perfectly ok to start small and increase upon failure, if you don't mind an interrupted run...

Thanks rad that's what I needed to know.

Cheers

goinbroke2 wrote:
I agree 100%! I build dragsters/engines/etc and love it.

In hindsight, I'm so glad I just got the kit and assembled it, I have too many other projects on the go at any one time.
It's all good though, there are many roads that lead to this madness called distilling.

I understand... sometimes, the choices can be confusing. It's funny, I started reading this thread, learned quickly that it's power and not temperature that we need, and there goes the PID setup I had in my head. So then I started sourcing SCR components, light dimmers, etc. I did not realize there was a species of SSR that was proportional, and all it took was a lowly potentiometer to make it work. So in retrospect, I'm glad I didn't pull the trigger on the other stuff because I am a huge fan of big, beefy solid state relays in general.

Pretty cool that a box, a pot, and an SSR is really all it takes.

I can take fabrication a bit far... why buy copper ferrules and fittings when you can turn them from solid copper bar? These are 1/8" FTP female threads, to be soldered into a 1/2" hole.