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NZChris wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:11 pm viewtopic.php?f=3&t=76531#p7588682
23g-36g/10lb by my calculations

NZChris wrote: ↑Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:03 pm 1 tablespoon = 12g

zapata wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2020 6:15 am

NZChris wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 6:27 pm From the bag;
Yeast
Rhizopus
A-amylase
Gluco amylase
Phytase

Thanks. And yeah, not quite room temperature, but still, time and energy savings are huge.

The yeast and enzymes are straight forward. The Rhizopus is interesting, and a bit vague.
Anybody familiar with the genus? I don't think it's commonly used as a Koji (Aspergillus oryzae). As a complete speculation though could it serendipitously be another oryzae, Rhizopus oryzae? I bet theres a Chinese patent out there somewhere.

At the risk of compounding some fear mongering on top of my speculation, I did stumble across this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhizopus_ ... hogenicity

Rhizopus oryzae commonly causes a disease known as mucormycosis characterized by growing hyphae within and surrounding blood vessels. The causal agents of mucormycosis is the ergot alkaloid agroclavine which is toxic to humans, sheep and cattle.[7] This infection usually occurs in immunocompromised individuals but is rare.[9][10] Common risk factors associated with primary cutaneous mucormycosis is ketoacidosis, neutropenia, acute lymphobloastic leukemia, lymphomas, systemic steroids, chemotherapy, and dialysis. Treatment includes amphotericin B, posaconazole, itraconazole, and fluconazole.[11] The majority of the cases of infection are rhinocerebral infections. At the same time, it has been found in literature that R. oryzae can produce antibiotic activity on some bacteria.[7]

In Indonesia, where white cakes are commonly consumed are made from coconut and fermented with R. oryzae, traditionally called "bongkerk" caused food poisoning. Symptoms included hypoglycemia, severe spasms, convulsions, and death.

Which is kind of a shit warning because it says both "commonly causes" and "but is rare".
And should be tempered by:

Rhizopus oryzae is considered GRAS (Generally Recognized As Safe) by the FDA and thus recognized as safe to use industrially

I've only just heard of this so I may be completely wrong. But it might be prudent to be a bit careful, particularly for anyone having risk factors. It's probably no more dangerous than stilling is, but I might consider simple precautions like not rinsing my eyes with the wash.

Also interesting because I'm an ester whore:

Dry mycelium of four R. oryzae strains proved effective for catalysing the synthesis of different flavor esters. For example, the pineapple flavour or butyl acetate esters was produced by the esterification reactions between acetic acid and butanol by R. oryzae.

Of course if it does that with butanol, it can probably do it with ethanol. But I wonder how it would like a dunder pit? Anybody want to feed their tails to their grain bed and see it turns into a fruit salad?

Fascinating stuff guys, thanks for getting on it and sharing. I wish instacart delivered from Aliexpress!

Sazerac wrote: ↑Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:01 pm

zapata wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2020 6:15 am

NZChris wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 6:27 pm From the bag;
Yeast
Rhizopus
A-amylase
Gluco amylase
Phytase

Thanks. And yeah, not quite room temperature, but still, time and energy savings are huge.

The yeast and enzymes are straight forward. The Rhizopus is interesting, and a bit vague.
Anybody familiar with the genus? I don't think it's commonly used as a Koji (Aspergillus oryzae). As a complete speculation though could it serendipitously be another oryzae, Rhizopus oryzae? I bet theres a Chinese patent out there somewhere.

At the risk of compounding some fear mongering on top of my speculation, I did stumble across this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhizopus_ ... hogenicity

Rhizopus oryzae commonly causes a disease known as mucormycosis characterized by growing hyphae within and surrounding blood vessels. The causal agents of mucormycosis is the ergot alkaloid agroclavine which is toxic to humans, sheep and cattle.[7] This infection usually occurs in immunocompromised individuals but is rare.[9][10] Common risk factors associated with primary cutaneous mucormycosis is ketoacidosis, neutropenia, acute lymphobloastic leukemia, lymphomas, systemic steroids, chemotherapy, and dialysis. Treatment includes amphotericin B, posaconazole, itraconazole, and fluconazole.[11] The majority of the cases of infection are rhinocerebral infections. At the same time, it has been found in literature that R. oryzae can produce antibiotic activity on some bacteria.[7]

In Indonesia, where white cakes are commonly consumed are made from coconut and fermented with R. oryzae, traditionally called "bongkerk" caused food poisoning. Symptoms included hypoglycemia, severe spasms, convulsions, and death.

Which is kind of a shit warning because it says both "commonly causes" and "but is rare".
And should be tempered by:

Rhizopus oryzae is considered GRAS (Generally Recognized As Safe) by the FDA and thus recognized as safe to use industrially

I've only just heard of this so I may be completely wrong. But it might be prudent to be a bit careful, particularly for anyone having risk factors. It's probably no more dangerous than stilling is, but I might consider simple precautions like not rinsing my eyes with the wash.

Also interesting because I'm an ester whore:

Dry mycelium of four R. oryzae strains proved effective for catalysing the synthesis of different flavor esters. For example, the pineapple flavour or butyl acetate esters was produced by the esterification reactions between acetic acid and butanol by R. oryzae.

Of course if it does that with butanol, it can probably do it with ethanol. But I wonder how it would like a dunder pit? Anybody want to feed their tails to their grain bed and see it turns into a fruit salad?

Fascinating stuff guys, thanks for getting on it and sharing. I wish instacart delivered from Aliexpress!

It is almost certainly R. Oryzae, since that has been used for centuries for traditional Chinese alcohol production, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q%C5%AB

The stuff you have is basically a refined version of Xiaoqu with extra enzymes added, and would typically be intended for making rice wine to be drunk directly rather than distilled. I have also seen a version without the added enzymes and just yeast and the Rhizopus culture (which was for sale in small sachets at my local Chinese grocery, so anyone looking for something like this sooner than shipping from china arrives should probably take a quick look around).

Beerswimmer wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:07 pm My bourbon and whiskeys were deliciuos. Not a flavorful, or estery yeast as far as I could tell. Pretty neutral. The yeast takes a back seat to the grains.

Chauncey wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:30 am How much does maize run ya there? Feed store corn is like 24kg for 9usd here but it aint the best.