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I started working on finding a source for appropriate size Lava Rock. First I bought this stainless sieve set to separate sizes that are too small, too big and sizes that are just right. The target size is 5/16"-3/8" (0.3125"-0.375") (8mm-10mm).

I started by ordering this 1/4"-1/2" Lava Rock from Home Depot , but after using the sieve, 99% of it was fine rubble. There was less than a handful of bits that were keepers. Complete garbage, not as advertised so I returned it.

I then ordered 10 lbs of this 0.3"-0.6" (8mm-15mm) Lava Rock from Amazon. After using the sieve, I ended up with approx 1/2 gallon of material that's too small, 1/2 gallon that's just right and 1/2 gallon that's too big.



To resize the bits that are too large, I clamped bolt cutters in a vise and spit each piece in half. I then ran it through the sieve again. It didn't really take long to do and was more efficient than smashing them with a hammer.



After cutting the larger bits, I ended up with just under 1 gallon of proper sized Lava Rock and 1/2 gallon of bits that are too small. So this source of Lava Rock is approx 1/3 waste, 2/3 usable size and this is about what I expected from a decent vendor.

what is the advantage of lava rocks over copper mesh packing?

would the smaller pieces work for a smaller diameter column?

squigglefunk wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2024 9:36 am what is the advantage of lava rocks over copper mesh packing?

would the smaller pieces work for a smaller diameter column?

Not all copper mesh is made the same. I have copper mesh that is extremely fine and some that is much more coarse. The only recommendation I've read for using copper mesh is, "roll it and insert into the column and as long as it doesn't restrict blowing air through it it's fine". So what's too loose and exactly when is it too tight? I imagine the performance changes (at least a bit) depending on whether it's fine, coarse, too loose or on the verge of being too tight. Copper mesh loosens up over time with use. I've had to unroll it and re-roll it multiple times over the years. I don't like inconsistency.

Stainless scrubbers are not all made the same either. I have really fine scrubbers and much more coarse scrubbers. Stainless scrubbers are REAL finicky. It's real easy to pack them too tight and cause flooding. It's also real easy to pack them too loose and get low % ABV as a result. After experiencing this repeatedly and not getting consistent performance, I stopped using scrubbers and looked at all of the different 'Random Packings' as an option.

Random packing like SPP, ceramic rings, Lava Rock, marbles, etc... are simply poured into the column and ALWAYS perform consistently from run to run. Sizing of the packing is important. I've tried many different packing materials and so far properly sized Lava Rock has worked the best. To answer your question, yes, smaller columns use smaller packing.

2" uses 3/16"-1/4" (0.1875"-0.25") 5mm-6mm
3" uses 1/4"-5/16" (0.25"-0.3125") 6mm-8mm
4" uses 5/16"-3/8" (0.3125"-0.375") (8mm-10mm) (0.8cm-1cm)

I was going to continue purchasing Lava Rock, screen it and repeat until I had enough to fill my new 4" column, but the price just jumped up another $5 per 10 lbs. It now costs me just over $20 for a little less than 1 gallon. I need approx 4 gallons to fill the column. Instead I decided to give this Hydro Crunch - Hydroton a try. It's a 10 liter bag (2.64 gallon) $22.08 free shipping, free returns and claims to be 8mm in size. I intend to screen it and see if their claim is accurate. I'm hoping for 8mm and some larger pieces rather than smaller pieces. That would make this Hydroton approx $8.36 per gallon rather than $20 for less than a gallon for Lava Rock. Hydroton is supposed to be extremely light, but also tough. It's made of expanded clay, little clay balls run through a furnace and they expand/pop like popcorn. If it doesn't work exactly as I expect, I will continue purchasing more Lava Rock and screen it to size.

I've used hydroton for years in hydroponics. I have a 50 liter bag waiting for me to finish my still. It's very light and porous. I had to soak mine in a 4.0 pH solutions first to stabilize it. Easy to sterilize in oven or 35% peroxide. I would believe you'll need 2 groups if you do more than neutrals as a rum/whiskey will soak the flavor inside. You'll also need to soak in for awhile to get rid of all the fine red dust unless you want your low wines to look like wine.

Tammuz wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2024 1:44 pm I would believe you'll need 2 groups if you do more than neutrals as a rum/whiskey will soak the flavor inside.

i had issues using ceramic media absorbing flavors for sure.

45 bucks for 50 liters. Having separate Hydroton for each base spirit is doable. I believe though they are out of business.

Tammuz wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2024 1:44 pm I've used hydroton for years in hydroponics. I have a 50 liter bag waiting for me to finish my still. It's very light and porous. I had to soak mine in a 4.0 pH solutions first to stabilize it. Easy to sterilize in oven or 35% peroxide. I would believe you'll need 2 groups if you do more than neutrals as a rum/whiskey will soak the flavor inside. You'll also need to soak in for awhile to get rid of all the fine red dust unless you want your low wines to look like wine.

What size is your still?

Much Hydroton to my knowledge is 8-16mm and many varieties can be even larger. Size matters.

I chose this brand Hydro Crunch over the Lava Rock I previously sourced because they claim their product is uniformly sized to 8mm as well as its cost by volume. I'll see if their size claim is true or not. 8mm is the smallest end of sizing for a 4" column, but Hydroton, unlike Lava Rock, is relatively uniform in shape and relatively smooth in comparison. I suspect these physical properties will allow reflux to find its way down with less restriction in comparison to similar size Lava Rock. So my thought is smaller the better as long as it's not too small. If it's too small it will cause flooding.

Crazy - where I am in Europe expanded clay runs at about 90euro per cubic metre - or 40c per US gallon! 50 litre bags go for about 5-7euro! Maybe the first time I come across something significantly cheaper here . I playes with it in a column for exactly the reason it is VERY hard to beat, price wise, here.

The 10 Liter bag of Hydro Crunch Hydroton just arrived.


At first glance it all appears relatively uniform in size. It arrived in really great shape, hardly any broken pieces and surprisingly little dust. This stuff is extremely light, but very tough. I could not crush a piece in my hand no matter how hard I tried.
After using the 12mm (1/2") screen, there was a little over 1 quart of bits that are technically too large. The rest passed easily through the screen and gave me approx 2.2 gallons that is just the right size. Only a small fraction would pass through the 9mm screen so the vast majority is anywhere from 9mm-12mm in size.
While rinsing the Hydroton I noticed that it wanted to float. That had me worried so I filled a segment of column and ran the garden hose through it full flow. Water passed right through it so I don't think there's any chance of this stuff causing the column to flood and resulting in the Hydroton to float.

My initial instinct is that Lava Rock would perform better because it is irregular in shape, each piece nestles against each other reducing the gaps which creates a significantly more treacherous path for both rising vapor and falling reflux. Lava Rock has more surface area because Hydroton is quite smooth. I also suspect that smaller Hydroton would probably perform better because it is so uniform in shape, more uniform air space between each piece causing the column to be less densely populated with packing. I'd bet smaller Hydroton would be more efficient by making the column more densely populated (smaller air gaps between each piece).

I'm looking forward to a Hydroton vs properly sized scoria comparison.

I've never tried it but wonder if stacking the column with bigger scoria on the bottom, just right in the middle and slightly undersized pieces on the top 1/4.
I'm thinking since the water/alcohol content varies from bottom to top, size the packing accordingly.

shadylane wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2024 5:07 pm I'm looking forward to a Hydroton vs properly sized scoria comparison.

I've never tried it but wonder if stacking the column with bigger scoria on the bottom, just right in the middle and slightly undersized pieces on the top 1/4.
I'm thinking since the water/alcohol content varies from bottom to top, size the packing accordingly.

Unfortunately at the moment I only have slightly shy of 1 gallon of Lava Rock which I was able to screen out of 10 lbs. Originally 10 lbs was $15.99 and now it's $23.99. I don't have enough to do a side by side comparison.

The price difference is what prompted me to get this size Hydroton. For the same price I get more than twice the volume.

I'll test this Hydroton for sure. I might shop around and see if I can find some smaller stuff to test too. More like pea sized.

Salt, did you look into siporax? It's a little spendy, but search for sera Siporax Professional. I believe they make it in a size you are looking for.

The Booze Pipe wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2024 1:28 pm Salt, did you look into siporax? It's a little spendy, but search for sera Siporax Professional. I believe they make it in a size you are looking for.

Yes, I used it with the first run using this still. I had enough for half the column and filled the rest of the column using Lava Rock that's sized for a 3" column. As suspected the Lava Rock was too small.

what is you opinion on this from the homedistiller's wiki:

"The other main drawback of a VM is it is less effective for heads extraction when compared to a good LM design. This results in a slightly higher proportion of your total run being heads."

squigglefunk wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2024 6:12 am what is you opinion on this from the homedistiller's wiki:

"The other main drawback of a VM is it is less effective for heads extraction when compared to a good LM design. This results in a slightly higher proportion of your total run being heads."

It's a wife's tale. Old, outdated info. LM collects and takes-off some of the reflux after vapor at the top of the column hits the reflux condenser. VM takes-off some of the vapor at the top of the column just before it reaches the reflux condenser. Here's another topic that discusses this. Nearing the end of a spirit run, a VM's take-off rate will automatically slow down and maintain peak % ABV right up until tails hits and you shut down. Being automatic is inherent with the VM design. The design splits the vapor to maintain a consistent reflux ratio resulting in peak % ABV from first drops until tails. With LM the take-off rate remains consistent set by the needle valve and as the % ABV drops the operator has to reduce the take-off rate to maintain peak % ABV.

It would actually seem more logical to claim that LM smears and that smearing is inherent in its design. LM literally collects & pools reflux from first drops, throughout the run right up until shutdown. Wouldn't it be more logical to conclude that the larger the zone which LM 'pools', the more it inherently smears? VM simply splits the vapor automatically (reflux ratio), condenses a fraction as product while the rest of the vapor returns as reflux.

VM is such a pleasure to operate. All you have to do is set the power, set the take-off rate, provide water and the still does all the work automatically. VM is not affected by fluctuating water pressure & flow like other still designs.

Salt Must Flow wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2024 12:40 pm

squigglefunk wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2024 6:12 am what is you opinion on this from the homedistiller's wiki:

"The other main drawback of a VM is it is less effective for heads extraction when compared to a good LM design. This results in a slightly higher proportion of your total run being heads."

It's a wife's tale. Old, outdated info.

VM is such a pleasure to operate. All you have to do is set the power, set the take-off rate, provide water and the still does all the work automatically. VM is not affected by fluctuating water pressure & flow like other still designs.

100% agree . And add it is also not affected by power fluctuations like the LM and CM are

A while back I made a VM for someone who isn't "mechanically inclined"
7ish gallon pot, 1375w element with no control, 2" packed column and a 3/4" take off without a valve.
The counter top rig had zero controls, all that's needed was to turn on the cooling water and plug it in.

squigglefunk wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2024 6:12 am what is you opinion on this from the homedistiller's wiki:

"The other main drawback of a VM is it is less effective for heads extraction when compared to a good LM design. This results in a slightly higher proportion of your total run being heads."

I think wiki is wrong about a VM and heads.
From what I've experienced there's no difference between any of the stills.
Having said that "maybe" a CM has a slight advantage for heads compression but I can't taste or measure it.

shadylane wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2024 4:10 pm

squigglefunk wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2024 6:12 am what is you opinion on this from the homedistiller's wiki:

"The other main drawback of a VM is it is less effective for heads extraction when compared to a good LM design. This results in a slightly higher proportion of your total run being heads."

I think wiki is wrong about a VM and heads.
From what I've experienced there's no difference between any of the stills.
Having said that "maybe" a CM has a slight advantage for heads compression but I can't taste or measure it.

I agree. I can't think of any reason one style of still cannot make just as quality neutral as another. Reflux ratio and packing does the job. To me, the main difference is the way they are operated and how they function. To me, that's where personal preference comes into play.

shadylane wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2024 4:02 pm A while back I made a VM for someone who isn't "mechanically inclined"
7ish gallon pot, 1375w element with no control, 2" packed column and a 3/4" take off without a valve.
The counter top rig had zero controls, all that's needed was to turn on the cooling water and plug it in.

No column equalization? I guess if the RR works out right then you're just smearing fores into heads and they're all getting dumped anyway.

NormandieStill wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2024 11:30 pm

shadylane wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2024 4:02 pm A while back I made a VM for someone who isn't "mechanically inclined"
7ish gallon pot, 1375w element with no control, 2" packed column and a 3/4" take off without a valve.
The counter top rig had zero controls, all that's needed was to turn on the cooling water and plug it in.

No column equalization? I guess if the RR works out right then you're just smearing fores into heads and they're all getting dumped anyway.

Thats pretty much how I look at it these days Normande
Reflux still heads are as dump-able as fore shots . I make no separation .It all gets disposed of the same way .

Sure , its nice to equalise and take off the drips and smell the nasty . But at the end of the day , by the time I’ve taken off heads , all the Foreshots are gone too , to my thinking .

I am old school, plus I like the control I have over production thus I equalize for approx 20 minutes and take the heads off slower then speed up through the hearts. Probably wouldn’t make a lot of difference but it does keep me concentrating on watching the still and not wondering off in my shop.

shadylane wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2024 5:07 pm I'm looking forward to a Hydroton vs properly sized scoria comparison.

I've never tried it but wonder if stacking the column with bigger scoria on the bottom, just right in the middle and slightly undersized pieces on the top 1/4.
I'm thinking since the water/alcohol content varies from bottom to top, size the packing accordingly.

I ordered another bag of that Hydro Crunch Hydroton and it should arrive tomorrow. That will be more than enough to fill the 4" column.

I also ordered another 10 lbs of Lava Rock from this vendor. If this source works out ok I'll order another 10 lbs. That should give me enough to to fill the column and do a comparison.

I hope to have my fermenters going within a week and testing soon to follow.

By the way, I also ordered a Spirit Hydrometer/alcohol meter from Mile Hi Distilling. In the past their meters seemed to be accurate. I accidently broke them and replaced them with cheap ones I bought on Amazon. That may be why my recent Hydrometer readings were abnormally high. Hopefully this one works as my previous ones did and I can throw the crappy one away.

Salt Must Flow wrote: ↑Mon Sep 23, 2024 6:36 pm ...
If it does, I think I'll make some Proto-Putty and completely coat the valve. Proto-Putty is similar to play dough, though it solidifies. It's made of 100% silicone caulk, food coloring and some Corn Starch. Silicone is a very good thermal insulator so it should work well. As a matter of fact, I may cover the valve with Proto-Putty even if it doesn't pool. It would help allow me to disassemble and handle that part even while it's hot.

removed text due to improper subject matter.

fzbwfk9r wrote: ↑Fri Feb 07, 2025 12:15 pm

Salt Must Flow wrote: ↑Mon Sep 23, 2024 6:36 pm ...
If it does, I think I'll make some Proto-Putty and completely coat the valve. Proto-Putty is similar to play dough, though it solidifies. It's made of 100% silicone caulk, food coloring and some Corn Starch. Silicone is a very good thermal insulator so it should work well. As a matter of fact, I may cover the valve with Proto-Putty even if it doesn't pool. It would help allow me to disassemble and handle that part even while it's hot.

would PP work to make custom gaskets?
I know some use silicone gaskets, and some use gaskets cut from silicone baking sheets.

this is appealing to me if I could use PP to make myself some gaskets for a milkcan/lid setup.

thoughts?

I personally wouldn't unless you could wrap it with PTFE tape or something like that. Aren't replacement milk can boiler lid gaskets readily available? You could wrap them in PTFE tape too.

I deleted my followup

the subject matter is not appropriate.

is a Mod wants to delete my post above, please do so.

After much testing, I discovered a silly design flaw in my original plan/drawing of the VM head. The reflux condenser currently rests only 2” above the vapor take-off port. Being so close makes the take-off rate sensitive to the water temperature & flow rate. I noticed a drop in take-off rate if the water temp drops to 135F or lower. I found that if I kept the water temp 145F or higher it remains stable.

With my 3” VM, the reflux condenser sits 3” above the vapor take-off and I never observed any fluctuations due to water temp or flow rate like I have with this 4” condenser.

I’m going to make another 4” spool long enough to suspend the reflux condenser 4” above the vapor take-off. I suspect the rule of thumb should be that the reflux condenser be at least the column’s width above the vapor take-off.

This style might be of help, it's 15-25 mm

Tammuz wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2025 10:34 am Screenshot_2025-02-20-12-29-30-55_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg

This style might be of help, it's 15-25 mm

WAY TOO BIG. The Hydro Crunch I tried proved to be 8mm-11mm.