Nuclear Whiskey / Nuclear Rum and Spirits Rapid Ageing

[midcarolina]

JYD.............. Am I mistaken, I am pretty sure Tater said this thread is for the OP and those that are interested in this process and those that are expierementing with this process........... ant NOT for the discussion of any possible safety issue's.........or do the rules simply not apply to you!

You have made it clear on multiple posts that you do not approve of this....... you even made a post that you even tried this in the past........ I think everyone knows that's bullshit..........

FS is a fine man........ and although you may not think so he deserves to be treated with respect!!!!


But I guess since you have made this your personnal mission to discredit this method that should be ok....................

[junkyard dawg]

I am delving deeply into the research and discussion of this process. I apologize if my mention of safety bothers you. However, the safety issue is impossible to seperate from the links posted by Max Vino and quoted throughout the last page of this thread... Its mentioned in all those links...

You have made it clear on multiple posts that you do not approve of this....... you even made a post that you even tried this in the past........ I think everyone knows that's bullshit..........

Why would you say something like that? Again, this is not even a new discussion at HD. Please see the sticky in this section called Distress aging with Charred oak.

FS is a fine man........ and although you may not think so he deserves to be treated with respect!!!!

He may well be. I have not said anything about him tho... I agree, we all deserve to be treated with respect.

My personal mission?

I enjoy a good lively topic as much as the next guy. It sure doesn't rise to a personal mission. My goal in this thread is to contribute to a clear understanding of the process. Not to promote hype and questionable practices. Certainly not to personally beat down anyone.

[jarheadshiner]

I don't really see the comparison you're making with the "distress aging on charred oak" thread JYD. Two totally different methods. This is not an essence either. As far as I know essences come in a bottle all by themselves and are added to the spirit.

[Max_Vino]

JYD

This discussion brings to mind three questions.

"Does this method improve the quality by making it more palatable ?"
You say no but then there are a dozen who say yes...So this is something that is worth exploring

"If is does work is there a easer/cheaper/safer way ?"
You brought up the point that microwaving is just heating. I have to disagree. In my past I designed and built microwave resonating chambers for a project and I can tell you the way they heat is very different than conduction heating....but you may be right and I plan to test light and conduction heating if I am convinced that the process works.

"Is it safe ?"
Here I totally agree with you, safety is always a concern...but hey the world is not risk free and there are many things anyone can do to minimize the risk while the process is being evaluated.
Here is my list:
* Purchase a lab microwave. Ebay has one for sale for $65.
* Seal the container such that the gas inside is contained but can expand. I'm thinking of something like a thin latex glove over the top.
* Cart your microwave outside (which I intend to do)
* Be extremely mindful when calibrating your heating time such that the temperature does not go over 150 F. Worthwhile to mention here that a microwave can superheat a liquid without boiling....when you disturb the surface it can then boil over.
* Dilute your sample to 40%
* make sure your microwave is grounded.


Cheers,
Max

[Bushman]

Thanks Max for the tips.

You brought up the point that microwaving is just heating. I have to disagree. In my past I designed and built microwave resonating chambers for a project and I can tell you the way they heat is very different than conduction heating....but you may be right and I plan to test light and conduction heating if I am convinced that the process works.

If you do these tests hope you will share with the rest of us!

[buflowing]

I keep seeing 150°F mentioned as max temperature. Why?

[bowhunt76]

op stated that this was the temperature reached in commercial aging facilities....its on the first page

[blind drunk]

* Seal the container such that the gas inside is contained but can expand. I'm thinking of something like a thin latex glove over the top.

Is it a good idea to heat latex over our likker? Wouldn't warm condensate, having touched the warm latex glove, possibly drip back into the jar? Or am I way off base here?

[FullySilenced]

Latex is one of the recommended materials for contact with ethanol do a wiki on gloves rated VG

Happy Stillin

FS

[blind drunk]

[buflowing]

op stated that this was the temperature reached in commercial aging facilities....its on the first page

So? I've read these threads from the beginning on all three forums. I thought we were exploring alternative processes here.

I have no idea if this does any good at all, or perhaps even what it's doing, but I've been pulling a vacuum on the jar after heating. It boils and condenses in the head space. It will carry on as long as I want, just keep it warm in the micro. Seems akin to distilling on the grain in some kind of continuous reflux mode, except so far I've only used wood. I'll be trying grain after I hit the homebrew shop. I have a feeling it will cloud up.

My apologies if I've messed up terminology in the description. I'm still reading and learning.

[Doogie]

"Does this method improve the quality by making it more palatable ?"
You say no but then there are a dozen who say yes...So this is something that is worth exploring

I think, it is all relative. Everyone will have their own tastes. can this method substitute for judicious cuts and bad distilling? Can it appeal to particular palettes that prefer certain flavours?

In the end, as long as it is safe (which under controlled conditions as explained in the original post it seems to be), then the success will be determined by the end user. Some will like it, some will hate it, and of those who hate it will realize new chip/additive combinations that yield them what they want

As long as it is safe (which it seems this is), then if it tastes good to the producer, then all is good ...

[blind drunk]

Well I finally lived up to my avatar and gave this a whirl. Seems safe enough, but like stillin itself, it's best to keep an eye on the process, lest the ball roll away from you.

[Doogie]

exactly - I never leave the nuker alone, and do it in 1-2 min shots bringing it up to temperature. I use a thermometer, and once I get to 150'F, I stop. Easy enough

[F6Hawk]

I will say that I took a jar of swill from my second batch of SF. Even after sitting for a couple of weeks on oak, it wasn't anything I was willing to drink. Too harsh. Acrid. But as I may have said, I'm not a whiskey guy. I nuked it 4 times, and I like it. A lot. Took some to a friend who makes his own, and he was blown away that it was only 2 weeks old.

So either I am already a master distiller, capable of making top-shelf stuff from the word go...

Or, it works. The aging process without nuking would have taken 2 additional days. With nuking, it took 2 additional days. (I did two heat/cool cycles per day) So agewise, it's the same. But flavorwise, it is now drinkable, and not just barely. Before, I would not have ruined a glass of coke with my hooch. Now, I don't want to cover the flavor with anything but ice or air.

Just my 2¢

[junkyard dawg]

I don't really see the comparison you're making with the "distress aging on charred oak" thread JYD.

Both threads talk about using heat to accelerate flavoring. One specifies microwaves, the other is ambiguous.
The cycling and pressure/vacuum relations and even the temperatures talked about are the same... Not sure how you could really miss the similarities.

As far as the essence comparison... keep it simple...its instant gratification flavoring... opening a bottle of essence to flavor a liter of your shine or do it yourself... nukular aging involves taking all the same ingredients for an essence and wringing the flavor out of them. You are pretty much making your own essence, its just not condensed down to a little bottle. again with the coffee analogy. nescafe and hot water resembles a good cup of coffee. (essence) Highly processed folgers and hot water might taste a little better, but its not really a good cup of joe...(nukular aging). However, taking your time and getting ahold of some good fresh beans and taking the time to roast them properly and grind them right and brew them will make a cup of coffee that knocks yer socks off. (traditional barrel aging)

Max Vino. You bring up some good points.

"Does this method improve the quality by making it more palatable ?"

I never said it does not work. It is very effective at extracting flavors. Its not my opinion about improved quality... There are thousands of accelerated aging methods and none of them get high marks from the tasters...

You brought up the point that microwaving is just heating.

I'm only quoting the links you posted earlier. They all emphasize that there is no magical microwave effect. Its only about heat. Sure, they go off far beyond our scope with pressure reactors and all manner of high tech contraption. The driver of the reaction is still heat. There is consensus on this from the scientific community to the microwave manufacturers.

I will concede that there is a huge difference between lets say, a brisket cooked in the microwave and a brisket thats slow smoked over a proper wood fire. viewed from that perspective, Yes, there is a huge difference between methods of heating.

just as an aside, Does anyone else find it curious that much of this discussion revolves around sweetfeed recipes?

Sweetfeed is not exactly top quality stuff.... its pretty much the cheapest lowest quality grains that are sprayed with molasses to make it palatable to livestock.... Its a long long way from top shelf... Not saying it doesn't have its qualities... but, just sayin....

Personally, I'll keep my all grain outta the nuker....

[BoomTown]

Lot of bru-hah-hah in this thread.

My opinion (for what it's worth) is that this may be a discussion similar to that held many decades ago about the merits of using electric heat over coal stoves to create kitchen cooking. As it turns out, the great chefs settled on using Natural gas. My guess is, the use of microwaves to extract the oak essence quickly is really quite consistent with the 'hobby' nature of this forum, generally. Just keeping to tradition for the sake of "that's how it's always been done" doesn't have a lot of technical merit, near as I can tell. Many modern innovations are liberally discussed and encouraged here, and this seems to me to be no more and no less than one of those innovations. As to the safety issues, I'm not seeing the merits of that argument. Caution yes, of course, but it's that always the case anyhow? Naturally, idiots will emerge and hurt themselves, but more than likely not to any greater magnitude that idiots normally do.

Meantime, the curious guy I am, I tried it. And the little school mom from Boston really liked the result. Seems to me, I'm not going to ever have to answer to the feds for not using brand new barrels to age my home made in, nor enter any contests with inane rules about the hows and what-for of the process used to achieve the results; I am just going to enjoy a very improved tasting product much sooner if I do a few bottles using this method.

It's about progress boys and girls, let use good judgment, have a little nip, and continue to march.

[jarheadshiner]

+1. Nicely said BT.

[heartcut]

Did 3 cycles on 159 proof corn (jar 3) with 20g JD chips. Heads carryover went away, flavor is good, drink it neat or on an ice cube. Doesn't have the depth of flavor a full run blend has, but it made feints shippable, Still use the N2 purge (insert chicken sound effects), but I'm going to try setting up a LEL detector on the vent fan outlet and see what concentration of EtOH is actually in the air being pumped out of the microwave. Should be interesting.

[Bushman]

Just purchased an ultra sonic cleaner as I have tasted some ultra sonically enhanced aged liquor from a commercial distiller that would not share his secret but personally I thought the liquor was great so in following Odin's experiments I am going to use an ultra sonic cleaner.

Will update and post results once I am sure I am running it properly.

[jarheadshiner]

Both threads talk about using heat to accelerate flavoring. One specifies microwaves, the other is ambiguous.
The cycling and pressure/vacuum relations and even the temperatures talked about are the same... Not sure how you could really miss the similarities.

One post mentioned heating neutral in a water bath with an essence added and BD mistakenly heated some on oak, also in a water bath, on a suggestion from WW. No ambiguity at all. The methods were plainly stated. The majority of the rest of the posts deal with the in/out of the freezer method and a few random methods of traditional aging (under the house/in the garage/up in a tree). Unless I missed something.

[wv_cooker]

+1 Boomtown

Very graciously said, I am not making drink to please any tasters or win any contests am only here for self satisfaction. Now off to the kitchen with my new bag of JD chips and safety equipment. Thanks FS for starting the thread, and thanks HD for allowing it!

[junkyard dawg]

+1 more.

Boomtown wins best post

[BoomTown]

aw shucks guys, that was so nice of you...thanks

[Max_Vino]

To get to a answer to the question "Does this method improve the quality by making it more palatable ?" I have some suggestions:

1) Does anyone out there reading this have access to a gas chromatograph ? I suspect that extracting oak sugars and other flavors isn't the only thing happening here. What I think is happening is that some of the fusels are being absorbed...in particular Propanol and isobutanol. I would love to see a test of this (compared to a untreated sample)and put the question to rest. I would also be happy to contribute to sending a sample out for testing.

2) This is for FS. There are so many people trying this method have you thought about organizing a poll ? These might not be the right questions but something like this. The responses could then be summarized in their own thread. It would also be very interesting to hear from those who have tried it and didn't like it.
Results: scale from 1-10
General:
Overall Judgement compared to untreated sample
Overall Judgement compared to "Top Shelf" brands
Flavor:
Nose/Aroma
Mouthfeel
Taste
Finish
Comments:
Cheers,
Max

[Bushman]

Just purchased an ultra sonic cleaner as I have tasted some ultra sonically enhanced aged liquor from a commercial distiller that would not share his secret but personally I thought the liquor was great so in following Odin's experiments I am going to use an ultra sonic cleaner.

image.jpg

Will update and post results once I am sure I am running it properly.

So as not to derail this thread I just tested with side by side bottles of vodka and was impressed how much smoother it was, now doing the same to try and infuse my gin herbs. To continue discussing this process refer to Odin's thread on the technique and how to use it below.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... c&start=12

[jarheadshiner]

I haven't exactly worked out the logistics yet but I am gonna try to do a safety test out in an open field soon. Any suggestions on what tests should be done? It will be in an environment where I can try almost anything you can think of ie... metal/boiled dry... anything else you can think of that would be helpful.

[heartcut]

Jarhead, I'd be interested in what you find. An LEL detector calibrated to ethanol would help in that type of test. You would know when the lower explosive limit was being approached instead of having an explosion tell you. I intend to do some basic testing with one but not as comprehensive as what you're planning. The detectors are available at boat and RV supplies or industrial surplus. 100% LEL = lowest concentration in air that will explode.

[mash rookie]

Since my recent post that offered humor to the thread was deleted I guess I should swear to be taken sweruiously. DAMN IT!
There is no room for humor around here. We are a swerious site DAMN IT!

I offered early here that I personally can attest to successfully microwaving neutral to reduce lower BP alcohols.
And…. Since I was the one that pioneered and encouraged using JD chips, I want to know? Has anyone has done separate tests with and without oak chips on the same product?

This thread has gone so long now I really don’t remember.

In other words, Are you getting the same product you would have if you microwaved it to reduce heads then allowed it to sit a couple of weeks on JD chips?
I am not saying that reducing two weeks down to two hours is bad. I am asking do we know what we are looking for when doing taste comparison tests?

My personal experience leaves me with no doubt that microwaving is sucessful at reducing heads. My experience with JD chips leaves me no doubt that you can oak whiskey faster then typically done in a barell.

NOT FLAVORED. OAKED. DAMN IT!

[blind drunk]

I've only tried it once, with a white off cut brandy, and it did reduce some of the unpleasant headiness of it. One of the results is I can now taste the tails, whereas before the heads were most pronounced. In way, although it was not a silver bullet in my case, I can see me aging the post-nuked distillate with some wood. The process kinda revealed what could be developed with a bit of real time and wee bit of oak.