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punkin wrote:I believe from memory that it's already discussed in the thread here, may have to take a leaf outa you're own book, so to speak, Rad.

It's been brought up here, but there has never been a definitive answer nor discussions about comparisons between the two... I rarely ask questions here and when I do you can rest assured that I've done my research... This was brought up for continued discussion, not criticism...

Allow me to quote you out of context...

I've done my research...

Maybe you researched the wrong thing or used the wrong research method... If you had done side by side batches and ran them yourself, you would be telling us rather than asking us

pintoshine wrote:Allow me to quote you out of context...

I've done my research...

Maybe you researched the wrong thing or used the wrong research method... If you had done side by side batches and ran them yourself, you would be telling us rather than asking us

Thanks, pintoshine... That was exactly why I was asking... I was checking to see if anyone had actually done that already, before buying the natural raw wheat germ and wasting time... If I'm going to do a comparison I'll need to fetch my hydrometer and alcometer out of storage... Gotta wait for my current batches to finish first, though, because I have limited space here... Been winging it for the last few washes here in the apartment...

I am glad you took that with good humor, MtnWalker/MtnWalker2 did a side by side but I never heard the results. He just reappeared on New Distillers yesterday, I'll ask him for a follow up.

pintoshine wrote:I am glad you took that with good humor, MtnWalker/MtnWalker2 did a side by side but I never heard the results. He just reappeared on New Distillers yesterday, I'll ask him for a follow up.

Thanks... I'll wait to hear back on this before proceeding... After checking both sites and not seeing any final determination I figured it was worth asking... I think knowing would be very beneficial to all, which is why I asked here... While the issue has come up on both sites I doubt that I'm the only one left wondering... I'd even go so far as to wonder whether boiling times would come into play with raw wheat germ... Oh geez...!!! That would require more carbouys... Looks like a good enough excuse for me...

Hi, Pint,

Yes indeed did several side by sides, 3 i think.

I found very little difference in flavor, though i kinda thought I liked the toasted better. May have been prejudiced by the fact that the untoasted, organic was way harder to filter, much more gummy at the end. I fermented both on the grain though, so maybe wouldn't be so hard if I had strained before ferment, as I seem to recall you do.

Really, there were very little differences in the flavor profile of either the beer, or the distillate. But then again, it all tastes good to me!!!

mtnwalker2 wrote:Yes indeed did several side by sides, 3 i think.

Thanks, mtnwalker2... Do you recall there being any difference in fermentation times or were they pretty much equal...??? That's the one piece of the puzzle I'm looking for, and perhaps others here...

ALL HAIL DEATHWISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well I have just finished my first DWWG and I am a convert. This has to be the best recipe in my cookbook.
Except of my Rum Recipe (Of Course)

Thank you DW

RR

Has anyone considered that the effect of boiling is perhaps not making nutrients bioavailable to the metabolism of the yeast, but rather its beneficial effect is that it casts nutrients into a uniform/homogenized suspension? This would have the effect of radically increasing the surface area upon which yeast populations could feed and reproduce. That is my theory anyway. Unless there is really some chemistry that says yeast can't assimilate the nutrients in raw wheat germ...

If my idea is right, I would be interested in finding another way to cast nutrients into suspension than the prolonged application of heat...

Thanks for the thought. Killer recipe, either way!

I suppose my question above has already been covered in the discussion on pressure cooking WG in a strainer bag. Still I think that the benefit comes from suspension and surface area as opposed to cooking or breaking down.

I have never found surface area of suspended solids to have any affect on fermentation. Yeast floats free and does not have the ability to attach itself to any thing. I have fermented nearly clear sugar washes with a good balance of nutrients and the only visible solids in the wash was the yeast itself.
Besides that I filter most of my washes through a 2 micron strainer before fermenting. There aren't many solids left.
So what other explanation do you offer?

Im sorta curious on what you guys think the dwwg tastes like. mines diluted to 40% abv. I pot distilled my first batch and i must say after its diluted it smells like apples or somthing. Kinda sweet. I have it on oak now but will this aroma go away? will the flavor grow to more of a scotch then a floral type flavour? its only on its second day of aging.

Sounds like you collected the heads along with the hearts.

I thought i got most of the heads out, i have half a pint of heads i collected. maybe i didnt get it all, i was sipping with a spoon every so often.
I guess i'll be throwing this in with the next batch then to redistill it.

atjones44 wrote:..., i was sipping with a spoon every so often.

That could be part of the problem... Not so much the possibility of excessive sipping as sipping without diluting... Diluting with water can actually make the off tastes and smells more pronounced... It's a common misconception that because the spirits are more concentrated that the smells and flavors are more readily noticeable... Food for thought...

OK, Newbie alert. Please don't flame me, wise ones.

Just run my first DWWG through the still, mmmm is it tasty or what?!

Here's the newbie bit. I when I first pitched my yeast (at 30C) it did nothing for a few hours, so then I re read the thread and found the bit about aeration. shook the hell out of it, then made the mistake of leaving to get into the rums. came back about 7 hours later (4am) and crikey does this thing ferment quickly! It filled my airlock with foam then actually blew the whole lid of my 25l fermenter clean off (about a 17l wash), then vomited wheatgerm all through my garage Not what you want to find after you're into the second bottle of rum.

So what I'm interested in is preventing the explosion. Don't really want to buy a bigger fermenter as I'm a little pressed for space, and while I could scale down the wash further, I don't want to unless I absolutely have to, because I like drinking this stuff, it seems to disappear real quick round here! So aside from the obvious, is there a technique for preventing the yeast volcano I ended up with?

Thanks in advance.

not sure what your fermenter is, but if you stick one 20l pail on top of another and duct tape it, it give lots of barf space...

Ugly wrote:not sure what your fermenter is, but if you stick one 20l pail on top of another and duct tape it, it give lots of barf space...

ah-ha. I like your style. cheers.

Somehow get it to 28*C and it will slow down, or shake the water before putting it in the fermenter.

My DWWG behaved itself up to 30*c and it's really good. Now I'm doing UJSM and Pugirum, the rum is beating the UJSM 2:1 in speed, it's all go and the still can hardly keep up...can't wait...mmm rummm..

Just finished up the first run of this recipe. The only thing I did different was that I added an equal volume of flaked rye and used red star bakers yeast. It fermented in about 5 days. I did a double batch and held back 1 liter of the wash to add to the spirit run. The spirit run was cut at 80% and 50% going by taste and smell. I got 4 liters and kept one white, one on light oak and one on dark oak for several weeks. They were all aired first for 2 days and were distress aged while on the oak for the first week. This consisted of 12 hours in the fridge and 12 hours at room temp. After 3 weeks the white was awesome and it just got better from there. This is the first recipe i have done where everyone who has tried it has liked it. The oak was the liquor quik swish bag type sold by mile high. Next time I'll try some of my own toasted sticks. The 4th liter??? well it never made it till oaking, It was just too good.

Great recipe, this is definately a keeper,

Tony

i made this and the final product came out smelling a bit like dirty feet. a couple things i did differently, i used 24 oz of wheat germ and i put it in a pressure cooker for 2 hours at max heat. i also used lemons instead of citric acid. it did make alot of alcohol though.

Dirty feet is an infection.

If you want a less violent fermentation, try boiling the germ for less time.

If i recall the thread correctly, some suggested the violent fermentation would not be acheived without the ninety minute boil.


Try a thirty minute boil.

I seem to recall simmering, just shy of a boil... Damn, 2 hours at full tilt in a pressure cooker is a bit extreme... But, hey, if it works and doesn't effect the overall end product, who cares... Still sounds a bit excessive... You can only get what the sugar has to offer...

punkin wrote:Dirty feet is an infection.

I had alot of the wheat germ bubble out in the first 3 days so I topped it off with tap water. would that cause an infection?

southpaw wrote:

punkin wrote:Dirty feet is an infection.

I had alot of the wheat germ bubble out in the first 3 days so I topped it off with tap water. would that cause an infection?

Let's take a step back... Is it the finished wash or the final spirit that smells...??? You've got me wondering now...

the final spirit

A week has passed since the "Big Run" (100L batch) A small change was made from my previous post in that I added 1.5 times the rye as wheat germ. The rye I think adds a really distinctive flavor and is much better at this level. All else was done the same, airing, distress aging etc... Very good white, better after a week on oak (mine this time).

T.

After trying several different variations of the DWWG recipe I think I have some information to share... It appears that you can shorten the fermentation time by simply boiling the wheat germ by itself, in water, rather than boiling it while inverting the sugar... I have tried both boiling with the sugar and separately and my shortest ferment times have all been with the wheat germ boiled separately for only 15 - 30 minutes... It's quite possible that this allows more of the nutrients in the wheat germ to be leached out into the water because it isn't coated with sugar syrup... And for all of these washes I have only inverted the sugar for 30 minutes...

Using this method I have been able to ferment wheat germ washes to dry in approximately 36 hours to about the 12% range, consistently, and even higher (14%) whenever tried... By the time I get around to checking the wash the yeast has already dropped and the SG is below 1.000... And while I have also tried using 20-20-20 for additional nutrient, I get the same result without... I have also noticed the same effect with other cereal based washes, Gerber for one, so it's definitely worth some experimentation to confirm my findings...

Perhaps this isn't DWWG specific but, considering its popularity and the fact that I have seen significant improvements when used with this recipe, I figured this would be a good place to post... I'd be very interested to hear whether others have the same results... I should also note that all of these results were obtained using Fleischmann's dry active yeast bricks purchased from Sam's Club...

First off, newbie here. This recipe looks great and I cannot wait to try it. I already messed up a blueberry brandy because it didn't ferment properly (I suspect). So I'm really looking forward to seeing the heavy action described here. This really does look like a great recipe for the unexperienced.

Two questions, before I start.

1. If I half the recipe, do I still keep the 90 minute boiling time frame? After reading everything, I suspect that I do (I don't think this has been mentioned on these 14 pages).

2. It seems that it takes anywhere from 3 to 10 days to ferment. I get how to tell when it is done (SG and non-sweet taste). However, I am wondering if I am supposed to stir the wash daily? Please keep in ming that I'm still a virgin distiller (nothing has worked yet for me). So please forgive my naivety if this is a basic question.

Thanks!

I shake mine every now and then after the volcano phase is over. not sure if you should or not, I just like to the the airlock go crazy and blow out the top. Cheap thrills . can't see it harming it?