20 years of aging in 6 days

[SaltyStaves]

Hi Fulls and Salty,
I have a few questions for you based on the Davis Patent. Here are some patent quotes and my questions.

My corks deform over time and I have had runs where there has been very little pressure (or none) because of the poor fit, but I don't have a separate control for adjusting it.
This usually results in some Angel's share, but it doesn't have a negative impact on the product.

Haven't done the wood washing.

[Fills Jars Slowly]

Hi, Max. I followed what I considered the "default" laid out in the Davis documents and sealed the vessel (as well as I could using materials like flour paste, PTFE tape, and binder clips) and let the pressure do what it would as temperature changed. I have not experimented with other methods of varying pressure at this time.

I also did not wash the wood staves with vinegar or anything else, though I also read about that practice from Davis. Seemed like he spoke about washing in vinegar solution as a thing to do more when aging whiskey than rum, but I can't exactly recall the details.

[Max_Vino]

I assume the jar is soda lime glass? There are gains to be had using borosilicate.

When considering which glass to use I would opt for the safest, which is Borosilicate. " Borosilicate glass is an “engineered” glass developed specifically for use in laboratories and applications where thermal, mechanical and chemical conditions are too harsh for standard, household-type soda lime glass. One of the common names of borosilicate is Pyrex" i.e. Borosilicate glass is less lightly to break under the stress of heating.

As for light transmission, Actinic lighting peaks in the 420 nanometer range, so Borosilicate is "slightly" better than Soda lime in that range.

Max

[SaltyStaves]

Agreed. Borosilicate gives greater peace of mind.

Heat from the lighting seems to be more a byproduct, rather than a desirable function (according to the patent), but in the case of having active cooling that could fail, I'd much rather have a vessel that could cope.

Mine peaks at 37C in the summer and I don't actively cool it.

[Max_Vino]

Hi Salty and Fulls.

Thanks for getting back to me. You two are leading the way and I appreciate your efforts.
The way the patent reads to me is that Davis is trying to accomplish several things, please add anything else you see.

From the patent:
"Spirits derive their distinct characteristics over time while stored in wooden containers in part by the production and presence of esters. Esters are compounds made by chemically bonding acid molecules and alcohol molecules to form new compounds, often with pleasant aromas and tastes. This process is known as "esterification." In addition to esterification, wood-aged spirits derive additional characteristics through other processes, including extraction of flavor compounds and sugar from the wood container “

1) He is attempting to accelerate the chemical reactions in the distillate by exposing it to elevated temperatures. There is the old rule of thumb that for every 10°C rise in temperature the reaction time is doubled. This would speed up the esterification process.
"Heating in accordance with the invention triggers the esterification of free volatile acids and alcohols in the distillate 2, while the headspace 3 provides for reflux within the vessel 1 allowing any weak acids to be rapidly extracted from the wood. These weak acids, in combination with elevated temperatures, appear to help catalyze the esterification of free acids in the distillate per the Fischer process, which would otherwise take many years in traditional containers."

2) He is attempting to pump the distillate in and out of the wood by varying pressure. This technique is covered fairly well in the Cleveland patent. In addition to drawing out flavor and aroma there are other favorable compounds which he defines as weak acids etc. the weak acids would aid in the Fischer process. As for reflux, theoretically maybe but when I think about Raoult's law and the temperatures involved I doubt that would be significant. There is the added benefit of the charcoal absorbing some congeners.

3) By exposing the wood to light he is attempting to accelerate the decomposition process within the wood itself. UV light carries the most energy which would explain his choice of actinic light. Exposing distillate over wood chips to sunlight is a well-known method of extracting oak flavor. There is also the weber patent, which does something similar.
"This indicates that the irradiation conducted in accordance with the process of the present invention provides for an oxidation process which is substantially identical with that of the distilled spirit which has been subjected to an aging for a period of 9 months in an oak vessel."
https://patents.google.com/patent/US3787587A/en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

4) Decomposition of the wood with a acid wash. I’m not sure if this is helpful either. So like both of you I probably will not do this.

Looking at each individual aspect of the patent I don’t believe it would hold up to a challenge but when you look at the claim of "Sequential Temperature and Light Processing" he could be right about that. So I’m going to give it a try and I’ll report back to you in a month or so.

[SaltyStaves]

Looking forward to your findings Max.

One area I deviate from the patent is allowing air into the distillate (passively) during the light treatment. I found this significantly reduces the time in which the finished spirit settles down and becomes drinkable. I later read that Davis holds back from bottling/shipping for at least 3 months after treatment, which makes a lot of sense given they don't allow for oxidation during treatment.
I imagine those licensees who were using the reactor, were probably not accounting for this rest period.

[Max_Vino]

Hi Salty,

I have had the same thoughts about oxygenation. Here is what Davis had to say about it.

"Without diving too far into the complex science, the basics of barrel aging are that with the right catalysts from the wood, acids are turned into esters, and polymers from the wood such as lingins and cellulose are broken down, interacting with oxygen all the while to further transform. As time goes on, the angel’s share also works to concentrate all of the compounds."

I don't recall Davis making an issue out of oxygenation in his patent...He does however have that part in there about reflux… Heating in accordance with the invention triggers the esterification of free volatile acids and alcohols in the distillate 2, while the headspace 3 provides for reflux within the vessel 1 allowing any weak acids to be rapidly extracted from the wood. These weak acids, in combination with elevated temperatures, appear to help catalyze the esterification of free acids in the distillate per the Fischer process, which would otherwise take many years in traditional containers."

I believe he is worried about blowing off the weak acids he is trying to preserve for the Fischer process. So perhaps oxygenating at the beginning but not durning the 2 and 3rd stages.

Max

PS I just ran across this patent.
Accelerating Aging of Ethanol-Based Beverages
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20110070331A1/en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Here is the first claim. So it would seem he’s adding energy and oxygen.
1. A method for accelerating aging of an alcoholic spirit comprising:
introducing into a container an ethanol-based solution;
increasing an oxygen concentration of the ethanol-based solution by introducing an oxygen-containing component into the container; and
increasing an average kinetic energy of the ethanol-based solution and the oxygen in the container for a designated time period.

[SaltyStaves]

I believe he is worried about blowing off the weak acids he is trying to preserve for the Fischer process. So perhaps oxygenating at the beginning but not durning the 2 and 3rd stages.

Interesting. I would assume that the transfer from the heating to the lighting vessels (and back again), is all done within in a closed system (certainly looks like it from what I have seen).

I always ensure my oak has gassed off and sunk to the bottom before I begin the process. Usually takes four days if the oak is new/dry. This may be a good time to introduce oxygen.

[oakgriff]

I was inspired by this thread to do some experimenting of my own.

I bought a simple heating pad online, and measured the temperature of the highest heat setting. It measured about 125 degrees F fairly consistently. I put my fresh distillate into a 1 gallon jar with a sealing lid. Filled it up about halfway, and wrapped the heating pad around the bottom half of the jug. Plopped two 4 inch sticks of charred oak in the jug and sealed it. I have been leaving it on the heater for 24 hours, then I turn off the heating blanket and open the top for 1 hour. After that I seal the lid, shake the crap out of it, and allow the distillate to come back to room temperature before opening again to release the vacuum and to start the heating cycle again.

After a week of this cycling the product has taken on a gorgeous dark caramel color, and the profile has been rounded out significantly. I purposely took a generous hearts cut for this, and included more of the heads and tails than I otherwise would, in order to see how this aging would affect those flavors. Where before the hearts and the tails flavors were easily distinguished from the profile, now they have significantly mellowed, and married with the flavor of the main body of the whisky (a bourbon based on Honey Bear). There is also a distinct vanilla and caramel flavor and smell from ther oak, which was toasted at 400F for an hour and given a medium char.

While the product is heating, you can clearly see evaporated liquids dripping down the sides of the vessel, meaning that reflux is occurring, and hopefully smoothing out the heads in the cut. I am hoping that my cyclic shaking after opening the vessel is introducing some amount of oxygen to catalyze (not sure if that is the correct term) some of the tails into esters. In addition, the creation of a positive pressure during herting and a vacuum during cooling rapidly brings out colors and flavors from the oak.

Anyway, the info in this thread did a great job of informing this process, and I think I have found my preferred method of aging. I wanted a straightforward and fairly bulletproof method, without having to purchase expensive equipment.

[Max_Vino]

Hi Oakgriff,
What you are describing is what I call “The Caribbean Method” of aging. It seems to be generally accepted in the industry that rum aged in hot climates ages faster. I currently have 3 gallons undergoing a similar test. I use a plant warmer hooked to a 24 hour cycle timer. This give me a nice heating/cooling cycle along with a modest pressure variance. I add oxygen daily. I am experimenting with this and several other aging strategies and hopefully in a month or two will have something to report back.

Cheers,
Max

[oakgriff]

Caribbean method, I like that!

I did not even think about a timer that would be much more convenient. Also would discourage me from taking samples every other day haha. Have you found that this method is more prone to over-oaking? That's something I'm trying to be wary of here, especially in my case with such a small batch

[goose eye]

Don't know bout 6 days but you can put some in a bulk barn with the burners off and in the summer it'll get 150 degrees inside then cool down at nite. Condensation forms inside the jugs. All this with the lids tight cause you'll have only water if not. You figure it goes through a season like this and it ages. When I first got here are argued with some that it won't possible to age in glass an
I don't know what you call but it done it.
You want to experiment put it in your trunk on a summer day . y'all puttin numbers on somethin would be interesting I here

So I'm tole

[Max_Vino]

Hi Oakgriff & Goose eye

Caribbean temperatures average 30 - 35 C. “Caribbean rum matures on average around 2-3 times faster than in cooler climates. As a consequence, a two or three year old rum can easily match the complexity and ‘age’ characteristics of other premium spirits that have been aged for much longer.” (From the West Indies Rum and Spirits Producers’ Association Inc. (WIRSPA))

So I think both of you are on to something. Most home distillers aim for 1 - 2 years aging, if that can be cut to 6 months that would be helpful….It is gentler, safer and it allows for some time to enter into the equation.

As for the oak extraction..yes, we have to be careful. I go by color and taste.

Cheers,
Max

[thecroweater]

Heat works, so does humidity and lack of. Buffalo Trace is no little rinky dink back street affair and I seen with my own eyes it's what they do. I'm not the biggest fan in the whole world of Buffy and I do think their white dog got outa the dick is atrocious but the top floor centre rickhouse gear (called Eagle Rare) is ok and fairly quickly "aged". We are still talking a few years rather than 6 days though, I'm still convinced the only thing that ages properly in 6 days is a rain moth.

[MoonBreath]

Heatn pad and freezer cycle 12hr each.
Get that winter in there makes for proper also.

For a longer aged simulation, 1wk heat freeze cycles till proper.

[Max_Vino]

I just finished my first go around using the method outlined in the Davis Patent. The results were good and the product had no trace of "new make” distillate. That said, if you’re thinking that by using this method you will produce great rum you are mistaken… There are many reasons for this but the main reason I think is that rum as we know it in the marketplace is not something that is simply distilled from molasses and then tossed into a barrel for a few years. The rums that I’ve been tasting lately all have additions to that simple formula. It may be a used whiskey or Sherry barrel, added sugar, caramel, added dunder or more likely something I don’t know about.

I’m going to have another go at it and I have several other rapid aging techniques that are in the works for a side-by-side comparison. I’m thinking another month or two should tell us the complete story.

So for those of you who have tried this, do my comments ring true to you ?

Cheers,
Max

[NZChris]

My UV light reacted experiment, that was very harsh immediately after the react, has lost the woodiness and harshness after spending nearly three years in my feints collection in a 3/5ths full demijohn with the wood. I'm pleased I never got around to recycling it, which was my intention, because it was quite nasty at first.

[pope]

I think I'm ready to dive in on this. I visited Lost Spirits about a year or so ago, my impression was they simmer their tea in sealed tanks then pump the amber liquid to their light exposure chamber. I assumed they weren't bringing the oak over and were just exposing the dissolved oak components to light. I've decided to build my own using a 5-gal sanke with a PID controller and a pressure valve. Separately I'm building a 4" dephleg that I may clamp to the top of a welded-on 4" top of my 'reactor' for some control, plus a pressure valve and release valve on top of the dephleg. Not sure how I plan on lighting this but I'm thinking suspending a light inside the chamber after simmering might be worth a go.

I'm curious about the effects of pressure, constant reflux, oxygenation (I use pure O2 on my mashes so I have a tank, regulator and air stone on a ss tube), and the light exposure. I plan on exposing the spirit to light first without oak. In the past I've enjoyed success with oak teas using a mix of Stavin convection toasted oak that I char myself. I have also made my own sugar maple charcoal from woodshop leftovers and have found it has a profound mellowing effect so that is another ingredient to feather into the experiment.

FWIW I am doing a 65/20/15 corn/rye/barley using maseca, rye flour, and a 50/50 malt blend of special and 2-row. I mash the malt a la beer brewing and add the liquid to the flour slurry, which I convert separately using Sebstar products. I can get to an 8% abv beer and still am able to pump the unfermented slurry with a chugger pump which makes me happy. Steam injection extraction. Working up to a 25% backset but fresh yeast on each ferment, I have an ekettle so I can't boil backset without scorching on my element, so I have to do a thick conversion and cut it with backset afterward.

There's a lot here in this thread already and I'm hoping I can eventually add to it, but I know that I need to cook up my own control and variable product to even get a sense of the good and the bad so that I can taste and smell any progress/regress for myself. Thanks to everyone on the thread who has so far done some considerable legwork!

[SaltyStaves]

I visited Lost Spirits about a year or so ago, my impression was they simmer their tea in sealed tanks then pump the amber liquid to their light exposure chamber. I assumed they weren't bringing the oak over and were just exposing the dissolved oak components to light.

Doesn't sound like you've read the patent.

[pope]

I'm just sharing the impression/information that was given to me when I was there (that portion of the tour was given by the woman who operates the system). Patent goes back to 2015 I was there in 2018 - maybe they left out that info at the time, maybe they do things differently? I just know I want to try both ways for the hell of it.

Also for the record that place gives one hell of a tour if you're ever in LA. Spirits aside it is entertaining as hell.

[SaltyStaves]

I'm just sharing the impression/information that was given to me when I was there (that portion of the tour was given by the woman who operates the system). Patent goes back to 2015 I was there in 2018 - maybe they left out that info at the time, maybe they do things differently? I just know I want to try both ways for the hell of it.

No need for you to repeat my mistakes, but that is entirely up to you. The purpose of the light treatment is to degrade lignin, which bonds the compounds in the oak that we want to extract. I only use a fraction of the distillate for the light treatment stage.

If you want to experiment, then start small. A 5 gallon vessel has the potential to make a lot of unpalatable likker.

[pope]

Part of it is getting a $30 pony sized sanke. I’ll use a high watt density rod-shaped element to get my minimum liquid level as low as possible so my minimum volume is reasonable (hopefully 3 qts or less). I’ll be re-reading the patent and this thread before I make anything, I’m just stockpiling, airing, and welding for the time being. Do you think the head space of a mostly empty keg will introduce too much oxygen?

[NZChris]

I wouldn't use an element in the vessel because the Watts used only need to be tiny, but still need to create convection currents through the wood for efficient extraction.

[pope]

My original thought was to suspend the oak in a stainless steel basket over the element, but maybe I try and get my hands on a small Bain Marie and weld a triclamp top on it. 500w is still overkill I know, but I could get a 500w hot plate. Sorry if I missed it when I read through the thread yesterday but what do y’all use for heat?

[SaltyStaves]

Sorry if I missed it when I read through the thread yesterday but what do y’all use for heat?

100W PTC element heating the aluminum hot plate of an old coffee pot warmer. But then again, I'm only heating half a gallon...

[NZChris]

Less than 50W, barely enough to get it up to and hold it at, temperature. Convection only happens while it's heating so I want the element on as much as possible.

[pope]

I could wire a psr instead of a pid and use a 500w or 1500w 120v element (already have the 1500), that way I could throttle it down. But the psr will also generate enough operating heat I could probably set a jar on top of the control box (joking FYI that sounds hazardous).

[NZChris]

I use a simple on/off controller set to a 0.3C differential.

[pope]

I did a lot of reading this weekend and poured over the patent finally. If I understand the thrust of it correctly we're using heat and ultrasonic energy >20kHz (okay in a range but the threshold is >20kHz), >3w/L, for a period of time. With the forum down I spent a lot of time looking for ultrasonic sources of energy (I was thinking light with an electronic ballast like a flicker-free LED with an appropriate frequency). What I found on ebay was a stainless ultrasonic cleaner in various volumes. Intended to clean things like antique coins, it can heat 0-80C and has a 1-30 minute timer for an 24W/L 'ultrasonic power'. Essentially it looks like kind of slow cooker with an ultrasonic timer. Price was right, certainly less complicated than what I'd been cooking up, figured it's worth a try. There are other posts on here about ultrasonic aging so I have more reading to do.

Also, the more I read the patent, and once I tracked down an off-the-shelf device that can process fluid to the specs of the patent, the more I thought it seems a bit grabby to publish a patent for a process that already exists.

[cayars]

I've tried UV via salt water UV devices (aquarium) where the fluid runs through it in a glass pipe. I tried all kinds of flow rates down to a drip, I've tried Ultrasound as well.

The only thing I personally still do for neutrals is microwave without wood to 160 F to blow off the heads.
Microwave can be used on whiskeys as well but sometimes you want the heads to remain to properly age and give the complex tastes that these "methods" remove to age faster.

I personally feel that heads in neutrals isn't so good while some heads in rums & whiskeys is a good thing that develops over time.