Home Distiller

Interesting stuff, Barney.

The "Barney Column" works for me. Paint it purple and the kids will love it, too <lol>

I had 3 plates, added two more this evening, and still have three! Wha? I decided to hack up my trusty, but largely unused, Bok, and sat it onto the two new plates, giving me 3 plates, but I had to cut out the three earlier ones for now the column would have been too long and no longer fit under the ceiling. I did this to gain more column for to add more plates for testing, as my short column/lyne arm was maxed out for plates. I also gain the thermometer and a drain(the former product output line) from the Bok. I've now sat my pot column on top of the hacked up Bok which sits on top of the new plates. This puts me back where I was, in plate numbers, but I'll run it(didn't have a chance to run my wash through today) like this to see what effect the taller column has, if any. No packing, except for right at the top as before. I also carefully measure what each plate holds, and they come in at exactly 1/2 ounce each.

Here's a shot of where the old Bok meets the new plates; note how the plates are oriented/staggered/spaced to each other, and to the lower one on the Bok. It's a 2 inch column, so use that for size reference; the dark part to the right is some of the condenser showing, so don't measure that. The Bok's upper plate now does nothing but direct any reflux to the first plate. All future plates will be added in the same staggered orientation, above and below these, as space permits. Y'all should be able to follow from here forth without further photos, so don't ask for more; it's very simple.

Finally ran my strip, with a few liters of feints added, as usual. I decided to go without packing; just the tall column and 3 plates. First 2 liters were each at 74%, next one was 71%, then slowly tapered to 45-50% at 6 liters. 7th liter was a bit cloudy/oily, but it cleared completely on the 8th, telling me I was done, and sure 'nuff, it was below 20%. This is very different and higher than my pot still ever ran at, without packing, and without the fan.

Interesting notes: I took samples off the old Bok output at 5-10 minutes intervals, now a drain, and all were well below 20% ABV, and all were very oily and tasted like late tails. So oily my hands felt greasy.. Yet, if I left the valve open, the ABV was much higher(didn't collect enough to measure, but by taste, it was well above 40%) and clear. There is no question in my mind that the little plates are re-distilling, to the point that they end up with nothing but late tails in them. Drainage is now my next task, and i think what I'll do is run 1/4'" lines from each plate to a common valve, and have a controlled "bleed off' from there, where I can collect the late tails from the plate pools, letting the pools do their thing.

Looking good! More plates to come!

I just read through this for the first time. Good stuff, Barney!

Thanks; I haven't done a run in a couple weeks, and I'm getting antsy <lol> . Have another generation of the same corn and barley wash ready to run, hopefully followed by a rye experiment, so I'm now thinking of what my next changes will be. Two more plates, for sure, but I'm considering tapping off each one with 1/4" line to a common valve, so i can do some controlled testing of drain rates. My last run showed that the plates' contents end up at very low ABV and very oily, suggesting that plates are in fact stripping out the tails -during- the run; I'd like to drain the plates and collect the stuff externally.

Thoughts, anyone?

Man I got to pay more attention in class. Great stuff, I may now ditch my inline thumper design as prety as it would have been. Please keep the R&D going and let us know how the flavor is affected with each change.

UPDATE

I did a spirit run(corn/malt barley) tonight. 12 quarts strip, to which I added roughly 3 gallons water. Came out to roughly 30% ABV in the still. Heated up at 4500 watts, and I ran it at 1500 watts, and collected roughly one quart per 30 minutes. I would collect a quart at 15-20 minutes with my old pot still. The first 3/4 quart was heads, and nasty, and all below 183°F in the column, but she suddenly stabilized at 184, and I switched jars, after tasting what was coming out. I've collected 6 more quarts, and had to quit because I got tired. Will resume on the weekend.

Of those 6 quarts, ALL were between 71 and 73% ABV! Amazing, to me. More amazing is I cannot detect heads in any jar. From that first one(after the throw away jar) to the last, the flavor and smell is consistent. Tonight is the first time I just let the still run, and didn't mess around testing this or that, and I didn't take samples from the old product valve. I just let it run. I did add the packing back to the top of the column, but I didn't put a fan to it. Otherwise, no changes. After I shut her down, I cracked open the valve and what came out was oily as hell! Slickr'n deer guts on a door knob!

My conclusion so far is that this outfit is stripping off the nasties big time, while not stripping off flavor and creating high ABV alky. I'll finish off this run, then do a full taste 'n sniff evaluation, but I suspect I'm done messing with this sucker! She's about all I could ever dream of.

Great work BF. You've put quite a bit of enthusiastic work into this effort and it appears you have gotten back considerable gain. It will be interesting to see, as others cut away at their columns, what new morphs will emerge.

Pulling off the tails during the run has hit on an interesting thread. I would think some of the retained flavors you are referring to would be enhanced by the tail collections, so to this you would not want to remove too much tails as the run progresses (?) yet at the same time tail removal over a long run would be beneficial I would think. (You will produce a manual on optimization for the new design, right?? )

by Fester » Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:02 pm
On a 2" copper column there will surely be an optimum height and number of slant plates for an all purpose (strip and spirit) still .

I am quite interested as well to see how this new "Barney Column" design progresses.

WalkingWolf

So, do you have a sketch/rendering of this new design, Barney Fife...??? This is starting to sound like a very intriguing design... I've kicked around the idea of multiple slant plates for a reflux column but not for a pot still... If it works well for high ABV stripping I'd be tempted to build one...

Sketch? Think Bokabob slant plates, but all of them oriented to capture and old. I'll take a photo of my rig as soon as I can find a backdrop large enough to hide the background.

Barney Fife wrote:Sketch? Think Bokabob slant plates, but all of them oriented to capture and old. I'll take a photo of my rig as soon as I can find a backdrop large enough to hide the background.

I'm familiar with your design as I eluded to in my previous post... I was thinking more along the lines of detailing it for others, including distances between plates, the number, etc... Unless the design is a trade secret...

what the over an under before one of the outfit makers use your design for profit


so im tole

Barney you got the wheles turnin. What if you put your collumn on a 45 with your plates 90 degrees to the collumn all on the lower side? All the reflux would run straight to the plate below? I think that would stop all distilate from dripping back to the boiler as it probbable would be redistilled before that point Then you could also put a drain valve on each plate and run it to another jar when done to collect the tail oils.

Instead of angling the entire column, I keep the column vertical, but use the angled(slant) plates instead. Same result. And yes, I have considered placing all the plates on the same side as you did in the drawing, but I'm afraid the vapor may take the easiest route and go up the side of column which has no plates, and not heat the upper plates as much, and not enough to keep them re-distilling. As I have it, the vapor must snake its way up, so it comes into direct contact with each plate, and each plate overflows not into the next one below, but the one after that, with the last two simply overflowing to the column's sides where it flows back to the boiler.

Hmmmm, a thought just occurred to me. My column is offset from its mount, so I could put a tee where I now have a 90° elbow, and add a valve at the bottom of the tee. The final plates' overflow would run into the bottom of the tee, collect there, and be drained off at whatever intervals is necessary, never reaching the boiler. Damn!

Very interresting.

If I get it correctly, you currently hae 3 plates. If more plates are added and tuned correctly, is it possible to have the top plate collect the head (methanol acetone etc...) and collect the etho from a second, lower plate.

No. The condenser is separate from the column. Besides, we can't separate and collect fractions like that, anyhow.

Great R&D. I have an 18" long 2" pipe I thought I would make a good practice piece. I cut up some 3/4" pipe and began to cut and hammer out to make a plate. I left the tabs on to help with the cooling of each plate. I started with the first plate (plate 1) about 2 in from the top of the pipe and spaced out approx 2.5 in. After the first plate was in place I then turned the pipe and placed another plate perpendicular to the first plate (this is Plate 2) and so on for a total of 5 plates in a 12" part of the pipe. Each plate should overflow into the plates below. (Plate 1 will overflow into plate 2 and 4) (plate 2 will overflow into plate 3 &5) (Plate 3 will overflow into plate 4 and wash) and (plate 4 will overflow into plate 5 and wash). It has been to cold to ferment and the wife does not like buckets in the wash room. So I have a little time to clean the column and do a couple of water and vinegar runs to make sure it has no leaks. Looking forward to see what it will do with a wash. Hope you understand what I am saying and if you have any info would love to figure this out. Thanks Barney.

Ah, finally a partner in crime! <lol> Keep us posted as you find things.

I added 3 plates today, for a total of 7 now. Here's a picture that shows 5; the other 2 are a good ways above these.

Here's my main column, which was once my Bok. On top of this sits another 14" or so of 2" copper before it turns down to the condenser.

Barney yours looks alot better than mine. I must have had one to many when i put the first plates in. I did not rotate as i intended. It is a little short but that is the story of my life (golfing of course). I’m going to start cleaning it tomorrow and hopefully start a wash. What do you think of a rum run for the first time? I have not done rum yet and debating on waiting on ujssm. I'll get some more pic when I have it together. date is wrong on the pics

I'v got a commercial plumber buddy that may have some 3" pipe to donate to the cause. That puts a smile on my face

Barney yours looks alot better than mine.

Thanks! I can get a bit anal with the small details at times, and I have to stop myself from doing the full-on polish-the-copper deal <lol> But mostly, I just don't want to have any edges to cut myself, and filing the plates smooth like that is a sure way to see that there won't be any leaks.

I've done one strip run with rum, and it came out with plenty of flavor, and i have more rum nearly ready to run now. Rum making is this beast's main goal! I hope to get the cleaning run done tomorrow, to be ready to run my rum on the weekend.

Did my cleaning run today, and just ran it with my Bok condenser instead of the liebig. Which brings a point; it's still 100% usable as a Bok, also! I ran it without packing, and wide open, at 750 watts to the boiler, she pulled 82% ABV throughout the hearts! It was just a gallon of heads and tails and junk(diluted to around 30%ABV) that I had saved for just such a use, but still gives a good indication of efficiency. This same Bok column, when unpacked and run wide open for rums, would never go over 70-75%(if that) before, and I think she ran in the mid 60's most of the time. No clue about flavor, as this was junk anyhow. But my rum's ready, and should go through in the next day or three. Stay tuned; Don't touch that dial...!

I was inspired by your plated column, and I have been looking at using the same principle to create a sort of Coffey still.
I have completed the rectifier, which consists of a 2" column with six plates and plate drains set a 3/8" above the plate.
I have currently built this to test on the Frankenstill, by removing the condenser from the thumper and attaching the new column to the condenser outlet on the thumper, the condenser is then attached to the outlet of the new column.

Damn! I hereby pronounce thee as the official "Home Distiller's Coppersmith"!

damn!! Ok I'm not going to put any more pics on here until i get the grinder and polisher out . I check my ugly a$$ column last night for leaks and looks good in progress no leaks just ugly. Its to cold for me to start a ferment. I run some water and vinager again this weekend and i have some nasty heads I will run some time next week to see how it reacts to alcohol and help get ready for a real run If it ever warms up. 34 F in the shop now and want to start a rum. Ive got a heater blanket, just dont think it will keep it warm enough.

ct, 'perty' does not make any better shine. Who cares wtf it looks like? It is how it runs. If it is clean, and runs well, then who cares? Most of my copper is passable, but hell, I insulate just about everything anyway, so you pretty much do not see it after it is built anyway. The inside, I never 'clean' hard. Just flush. I WANT it to be old, and have a nice patina. Shiny copper attracts attention, AND causes a metallic taste to ride over in the distillate. A good brown patina job, hidden under cheap black pipe insulation is what I prefer.

H.

Husker wrote:The inside, I never 'clean' hard. Just flush. I WANT it to be old, and have a nice patina. Shiny copper attracts attention, AND causes a metallic taste to ride over in the distillate.

I totally agree, the inside of my still is a dark chocolaty brown, it only ever get washed out with water. I like to work clean, as its easier to spot leaks etc and easier to fix one.

BTW I have not fully cleaned this yet, you can still see the work markings on some of the joints. I will post a pic when fully cleaned and mounted on my still. Also I cannot see how a clean outside would cause a metalic taste to your likker

Olddog, I'm going to move to Australia, it seems to impart magical coppersmithing powers. Seriously, that looks awesome. Can't wait to hear how she runs! any theory behind the amount of space under the drains, or is it guess and check at this point?

kiwistiller wrote: Can't wait to hear how she runs! any theory behind the amount of space under the drains, or is it guess and check at this point?

No calculations for the drains, I thought 3/8" on a plate angled at 45 degrees would create a nice pooling.