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Shawn you make an old Hillbilly Blush.

I think this deserves a little more testing over time. I drank some of mine last night and here is what I found. I used the JD chips about a 1/3 of a quart jar and then filled with 100 proof white. heated in micro for 3 - 1 minute increments and checked temp at 150 set aside and let cool on it's own and did this process 4 times throughout the day. Though when tasting it straight it didn't have the full body of JD it did have a nice light Bourbon taste similar to a George Dickel. Last night I mixed me up 2 fingers on ice and filled the rest of my glass with Pepsi for an 8 oz mixed drink. I noticed that though it did taste like GD and was a nice mixed drink, it did have a little woody taste and not quite as much vanilla taste as commercial stuff. Now I am wandering is this because the JD chips have been used up before or is the process what creates the taste. I am going to go down to a local specialty lumber company that we have here and get me some good white oak pieces including some good heart wood and do some testing. Try different toasts , charring, different proofs of product, etc. and see what happens. Even going to heat up a couple quarts with the oak, then seal and let set a couple weeks and see what we have. I currently have about 3 courts of UJ left at 100 proof and a 3rd gen run that will be ready tomorrow or so. I'll do a little testing. I won't go over a 65% ABV product due to the volitility of higher proofs and from what I have read 65% is where your supposed to oak in barrels anyway. Let's see what happens.

I myself want to do the same type test . I want to know if fresh toasted and charred (after a water soaking) and nuked would give a great start to a great product. I personally think aging with new toasted and charred sticks will render in a better bourbon. It would give off fresh vanilla flavors.

shawn2974 wrote:I myself want to do the same type test . I want to know if fresh toasted and charred (after a water soaking) and nuked would give a great start to a great product. I personally think aging with new toasted and charred sticks will render in a better bourbon. It would give off fresh vanilla flavors.

My thinking exactly. I have also been mulling over Mash Rookies input of boiling off heads as another thing that is happening. When I think of what brought me to this, is making whiskey with a reflux column by Odin's other thread, I have to use heads and tails from my previous runs to even get a whiskey. So my way of thinking is a whiskey is made by smearing of a % of heads and tails, then I don't want to remove them so I won't go above 150 on temp as to not take a chance of boiling off the heads. Then my other thought that if good whiskey is made with fresh oak then we probably need to use fresh wood in order to get the full effect of the vanillas and such. MR also mentioned tannins, which I don't know what these are but I will study up and see what their effect would be. Since FS started this thread I have seen some very nice discussions and different threads started on types of wood and the aging and oaking processes. Very good reading and lot's of good learning for everyone.

Edited to add: I also think the microwaving is just heating up and swelling the grain of the wood that allows it to soak up more product faster allowing the natural process to speed up. I am by no means a scientist just my opinion and way of thinking.

@WV_cooker
I am not a botanist or scientist either (not by a longshot). Someone correct me if I'm wrong but the way I understand it is that tannins do play an important role in the aging process. However it takes time for the chemical reaction to take place. The nuking process does not allow for this to take place so what you are left with is oak soup. Tannins are very astringent and bitter. This is why MR is trying to get everyone to find a way to lessen the tannins in fresh oak to rid it from some of the tannins. The reason JD chips work so well as opposed to fresh oak is because most of the tannins have already been removed from the long term aging process. I tried some oak staves with a medium plus toast and ended up with a very "woody" result. Using JD chips now and results are %100 better. I may be way off base here but that's how I see it.

JD chips in the broiler till they darken a little, 20g/liter of 160 proof and 3/4" of a vanilla bean nuked 3 times @ 150degF is pretty damn good. I'm planning to blend the rest of the batch as normal, do the microwave thing to half (with 15g/L), half plain with 20g/L, VB in all and leave them alone for a while.

Well jarheadshiner I am going to have to get a lot smarter to understand the readings that I have found, but it seems you are correct in what you say. Seems that American White Oak of several different species are the recommended woods for oaking and curing whiskey. The tannins are phenols that react in many ways with the congenors, esthers, oils etc. in whiskey. They add to some a remove others until the proper flavor is achieved. The toasting process brings out the tannins and vanillins etc. and the charring is mostly for filtering according to what I have read so far. Then if I am understanding correctly that you have to have a certain amount of heads and tails to make whiskey and the tannins and vanillins and such are what react with these to create taste and color, if I am correct in microwaving swells the grain speeding up the process some what. I should be able to get the correct species and make a drinkable product in a shorter amount of time than spending years aging in a barrel. Now I am not thinking that speeding up the process will make a perfect product but a palatable product for sipping in a pinch. I'll run down see what oak I can get and try some to see.

Ok I'm crazy, all my hootch is on long term aging. Got no white dog. I asked about 40abv vodka but no one responded. So I hit the liquor store and found an old friend.... Everclear....lol. This state will only allow 75ABV, which is perfect for this test. Why not I'm only out 15 bucks. First thing I found out is my microwave is alot more powerful than the OP's. The stuff started to boil at 1:30 mark. YIKES. Took it out, sealed it up. Hey for the purists out there i found a loophole, don't use your own hootch. Use Everclear lol

I don't have the equipment for making high abv so the torture test tomorrow will be done with everclear. Got all my ducks in a row so hopefully I will have some results to post tomorrow evening.

OK, on and off topic, but here goes. Been reading about this for DAYS now. Don't have any of my homemade hooch. Buddy had a handle of some bottom shelf LTD Canadian whiskey. Kinda crappy stuff. He said it gave him a headache after one drink. So, I told him I had an idea that "MIGHT" help, at worst I told him it would evaporate some of his LTD crap. Also, since his hooch was already "colored", we left out the wood. So, quart mason jar, microwave, and ideas on here. Well, we heated his LTD up to 150F, swirled it a bit, waved off the nasty odors emanating for about 1-2 minutes, capped, and let cool at room temp. Took about 2 hours to cool. Lather, rinse, repeat. Repeated till we had done it 4 times. (One extra because no wood, and low quality hooch.)

Well, the results are in. VAST IMPROVEMENT!!!!! Now, it didn't make this top shelf, $100/bottle fine sippin' whiskey, but improved taste considerably, and took the headache away! I didn't drink enough "before" to to experience the headache, but I did (ahem) taste test. "After" was DEFINITELY better.

Now, I'm just your average moron, but here's what I think is PARTIALLY going on. I think the heat is taking some of the heads/fusels out of it. Heat in and of itself did something in my case. Now, this is only one test, but when I get my own hooch, I WILL try it. Had we put wood in it, results may have been better.

BTW, a handle of LTD is $15 + tax here, so no big investment. (It wasn't ANY investment for me though...) It really is fairly nasty stuff.

Went 3 cycles of heating/cooling last night and this morning. Ended up with some yellow looking hootch. Didn't taste test it yet. I like more color so I may try a small piece of charred apple wood for more cycles.

just for giggles,, try nuking/alter sonic fores in a open container.
use a exact amount,the same way, so you can tell if it evaporates.

Dnderhead wrote:just for giggles,, try nuking/alter sonic fores in a open container.
use a exact amount,the same way, so you can tell if it evaporates.

I'll give that a go today Dnder.

An accurate scale might be best for measuring loss... volume will be meaningless unless its at the same temperature for every comparison.

junkyard dawg wrote:An accurate scale might be best for measuring loss... volume will be meaningless unless its at the same temperature for every comparison.

Good point, also take an ABV before and after although I suspect very little change if it is covered immediately and not allowed to evaporate.

Hmmm I still have a half quart of UJSSM heads on my work bench, any ideas for an experiment?

jarheadshiner wrote:

Dnderhead wrote:just for giggles,, try nuking/alter sonic fores in a open container.
use a exact amount,the same way, so you can tell if it evaporates.

I'll give that a go today Dnder.

Please be careful, them fores are super high proof flammable stuff

Please be careful, them fores are super high proof flammable stuff

I will. It will be outdoors in a controlled enviroment.

Bushman wrote:

junkyard dawg wrote:An accurate scale might be best for measuring loss... volume will be meaningless unless its at the same temperature for every comparison.

Good point, also take an ABV before and after although I suspect very little change if it is covered immediately and not allowed to evaporate.

Ok so how should I go about this to get the info you guys are after? What temp and such?

i though to brake down the proses to have some idea what its doing.
without test equipment the only way is by proses of elimination.?

heartcut wrote:JD chips in the broiler till they darken a little, 20g/liter of 160 proof and 3/4" of a vanilla bean nuked 3 times @ 150degF is pretty damn good. I'm planning to blend the rest of the batch as normal, do the microwave thing to half (with 15g/L), half plain with 20g/L, VB in all and leave them alone for a while.

Now this is the kind of testing i wanna do. I was sure thinking about toasting JD chips a couple shades darker and follow ur exact instructions except maybe a little more chips, then age this stuff on the shelf for about 6 months. I have no dought its gonna be great. I like the idea of the chips simply cause the tannins are used up. I also have another experiment going now with a gerber wash . Im gonna fing out which is the best spirit for the nuke process

If you really want to make a study of it then you should follow some basic outlines.

Pretty much, start small... keep the variables the same, except for the one you are testing for. record everything. times, temps, proof, volume or even better, weight. save the destructive tests for last be careful and have fun

Id be curious how much product is lost following a standard nuking procedure. If you have a scale then make up couple or few small canning jars with 100 or so grams of likker in each one. record the weight before you nuke them. and after they come out and cool off. The difference in weight will be how much is lost. It might be worth trying this same experiment with oak chips vs without oak to see if there is a difference. It would also be interesting to do this test with 125 proof vs 195proof.

I'd also be curious about the potential for superheating. This is supercommon with water. (fun way to burn yourself) Heat up a very clean glass container with good clean water and it can look still, not boiling... but as soon as you touch the water with a spoon or teabag or whatever, it violently boils out of the container. pretty much a small watery explosion. That would suck if your hi-test did that in a kitchen with pilot lights or maybe a burner is on... or a candle or a cigarette. or on your unprotected eyeballs.

You can go all mythbusters on it and try to get fire. I think mash rookie posted that link to some fun microwave experiments earlier in this thread. I'd read that if you haven't. I think you'll really enjoy that link...

did I mention be careful?

Ok JD that's what I'm talking about Thanks for taking the time to spell it out for me like that. I've never been much on keeping notes but I will do my best to record everything accurately. Then I will do the torture tests. I will take every precaution that I can, I ensure you, because I hate getting burned. I do have to say that I'm looking forward to the torture tests though . Haven't blown anything up (not even sure if this will) since I was in the Marine Corps!

you'll need to account for how much the wood absorbs

After 3 rounds of the JD chips, did a taste test. Not bad. Decided to go for broke so I charred up a small chunk of apple and did it again. Found out the stuff would not get above 120 degrees with the chunk of wood in there even after 3 minutes. Took the wood out and it hit temp after 30 seconds. Interesting the wood soaks up all the juice from the microwave. Two rounds with the apple and its a little bit darker. I'm gonna go one more round then see what I got.

Ipee7abv,

Good point... I don't remember how you account for a situation like that...

Maybe someone else will have an idea on that...

Jarhead, Best of luck with your experiments. I wish I could do some of this myself, but not right now. Whatever you find will be a great contribution to the discussion... especially the torture tests... remember that an alcohol flame in sunlight is pretty much invisible... be safe.

Fullysilenced, this is your thread. We got off sideways from the beginning. You reckon we could bury the hatchet and talk like decent adults?

Just for fun I ran a jar of 110 proof with 100 grams of Chinese cinnamon in it, for 3 cycles, I deviated from the original post by chilling in a ice bath until cold in between heats. Having aged on Chinese cinnamon before i can say that this tastes lust like the stuff that has been aged 3 weeks but is much smoother with a interesting citrusy woody flavor on the finish, which none nuked samples dont have.
Its kinda like Fireball but with notes of citrus, flowers and none of the nasty sweetness that fireball has.

Well guys unfortunately the everclear here is only 151 proof so that's what I've got to work with. Got a digital scale and a free 650 watt microwave. Not exactly ideal but I'm gonna get on it within the hour.

Well just like eveything else I try Murphy showed up and cut the experiments short. Microwave died on me (will explain later). So here's what I got which is better than nothing.

All tests were done with fores that proofed at 151.
1st test: 100 grams spirit/total weight in 1/2 pint jar 283 grams
starting temp 70F
no lid for 3 minutes
end temp 135F
end weight 230 grams
Nothing unusual happened with this test

2nd test: 100 grams spirit/total weight in 1/2 pint jar 283 grams
starting temp 70F
no lid for 3 minutes 30 seconds
end temp 150F
end weight 221 grams
Nothing unusual happened with this test

3rd test: 239 grams spirit/total weight in pint jar 496 grams
starting temp unknown (just poured the first 2 test jars in with what was left of my pint jar of fores)
lid on and tightened for 3 minutes 30 seconds
end temp 180 degrees
end weight 455 grams
In the last minute of heating you could hear a hissing sound coming from the microwave. When I removed the jar the lid was bent from the pressure
and causing the hissing sound. When I started loosening the band the liquid began to boil. I removed it slowly, relieving the pressure. When the lid was
off I got another flash boil when I inserted the thermometer. Nothing too violent but it did occur.

4th test: 100 grams spirit
starting temp unknown
no lid for 10 minutes
end weight 0 grams
Nothing at all happened with this test except my microwave quit working at this point

So that's all I got at this point. The microwave I had was very old and you could not see through the glass so video would have been pointless. I think that when I boiled it dry and there was no liquid left to heat and it fried it. Or it just may have decided to quit after 20 years. I had planned on letting the everclear cool and taking some more measurements but unfortunately I never made it that far. The only excitement I had was with the lid on test which probably wouldn't have happened if I hadn't started with such a hot spirit. If you do let your spirit get too hot though be careful for the flash boil. I'll be gone for the next few days but I promise I will get another microwave and continue the tests when I get back home.

it appears to me ,its as i thought,its "cooking off fores/heads".thats why the improvement.it mite be a more efficient way? dont know.
I tried experimenting some years ago.it was with high voltage electric. all that seemed to do was "oxidize" or that was my conclusion.

Dnderhead wrote:it appears to me ,its as i thought,its "cooking off fores/heads".thats why the improvement.it mite be a more efficient way? dont know.
I tried experimenting some years ago.it was with high voltage electric. all that seemed to do was "oxidize" or that was my conclusion.

From the amount of loss in weight in such a short time period I would definetly say that the fores/ heads are being removed/ evaporated. Anxious to see what the comparison in loss is with some hearts with relatively no heads.

How do you know the fores/heads are whats evaporating, and not just the hot ethanol, which evaporates at lightening speed when hot. Thats why its called 'rubbing' alcohol. Rub it on your warm skin and poof its GONE in a flash and all you feel is the cold from the rapid evaporation.