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Ok everyone I ran my first batch of this rum Friday night, single run and I must say I'm very pleased. It makes a great tasting very flavourful rum. Can I get a lighter rum from this?

I was thinking stick to the original recipe and double distill it, or cut the molasses content in half and do a single run?

Antler24 wrote:Ok everyone I ran my first batch of this rum Friday night, single run and I must say I'm very pleased. It makes a great tasting very flavourful rum. Can I get a lighter rum from this?

I was thinking stick to the original recipe and double distill it, or cut the molasses content in half and do a single run?

Yeah, mix what you get from a stripping run with 5+ liters of water and distill it a second time.

It'll go from being quite twangy with rum oils to a much more balanced flavor.

The more water you add on the spirit run, the less flavor you'll end up with, so you should be able to find a balance you like.

We're huge fans of this stuff, Buccaneer Bob!

Thanks so much, IamWort. Glad to hear you're liking it.

Bob, how "black" is your Dunder after running? Mine wasn't that dark, I only ran it down to 30% I think may be why? When blending back for an amber rum I had to add a good 150ml of Dunder to the 1000ml bottle to get an amber color. After next run I may try to boil a gallon on the stove to condense it down see what it's like.

My dunder is dense black, almost like used motor oil, so I'm not sure what's going on with yours.

Maybe it's your molasses? What type of molasses are you using?

And are you also oaking?

I'm oaking with pieces of toasted oak (with charring around the edges) and they'll impart a fair bit of color before I even add the dark rum essence.

I don't go crazy with the oaking because I don't want my rum to taste like whiskey/whisky, but I do use a bit.

Don't get me wrong, I do likes me some whiskey/whisky. I just don't want my rum to taste too whiskeyish.

Buccaneer Bob wrote:My dunder is dense black, almost like used motor oil, so I'm not sure what's going on with yours.

Maybe it's your molasses? What type of molasses are you using?

And are you also oaking?

I'm oaking with pieces of toasted oak (with charring around the edges) and they'll impart a fair bit of color before I even add the dark rum essence.

I don't go crazy with the oaking because I don't want my rum to taste like whiskey/whisky, but I do use a bit.

Don't get me wrong, I do likes me some whiskey/whisky. I just don't want my rum to taste too whiskeyish.

I use fancy molasses.

I didn't try to oak the rum, I have a gallon of whiskey on oak now so when I pull that oak out I may put it in a gallon of rum for 6 months. Next time I run I have a few things I'm going to try.

Antler, was that blackstrap?

I've got 8 gallons rum in a once used whiskey barrel, turning 3 months old soon.
Should probably give it a year in there at least, with periodic testing of course!

nerdybrewer wrote:Antler, was that blackstrap?

I've got 8 gallons rum in a once used whiskey barrel, turning 3 months old soon.
Should probably give it a year in there at least, with periodic testing of course!

No it was fancy molasses used. Let me know how the tasting goes, for me I think a year would be ok for a whiskey but probably a little much for rum.

My recipe is very heavy on blackstrap and dunder, it will take a year even in the small 8 gallon barrel.
I've had some fine 15 year aged rum that I really enjoyed so I'm kind of going for that profile.
I figure 15 years in a large barrel is like a couple years in my small one - time will tell.

Antler24 wrote:I use fancy molasses.

I didn't try to oak the rum, I have a gallon of whiskey on oak now so when I pull that oak out I may put it in a gallon of rum for 6 months. Next time I run I have a few things I'm going to try.

Yeah, that's weird, Antler24. You should still be getting good color out of the fancy molasses.

But I wouldn't worry about it. I like getting a bit of flavor/color from oaking, but if you're not all that into oaking, you might just make up the color difference with a bit more of the dark rum essence. Or not. Either way.

Thanks for this bob I've downloaded the pdf.
It's greatly appreciated,
I will be trying it soon

Buccaneer Bob wrote:

Antler24 wrote:I use fancy molasses.

I didn't try to oak the rum, I have a gallon of whiskey on oak now so when I pull that oak out I may put it in a gallon of rum for 6 months. Next time I run I have a few things I'm going to try.

Yeah, that's weird, Antler24. You should still be getting good color out of the fancy molasses.

But I wouldn't worry about it. I like getting a bit of flavor/color from oaking, but if you're not all that into oaking, you might just make up the color difference with a bit more of the dark rum essence. Or not. Either way.

I'm not too worried about the colour to be honest, it will pick up more colour from oak when I have a chance to get some more. My biggest thing was clearing the dunder, it's been 2 weeks and the jar of dunder is still very cloudy.

Antler24 wrote:I'm not too worried about the colour to be honest, it will pick up more colour from oak when I have a chance to get some more. My biggest thing was clearing the dunder, it's been 2 weeks and the jar of dunder is still very cloudy.

Are you talking about the dunder for your dark rum essence or for your dunder pit?

The dark rum essence will never clear completely. It will eventually look like black glass, but light won't really pass through it.

But there is a thin layer of whitish sediment that will settle at the bottom of your essence bottle, and it's nice to get rid of that stuff if you can, because it adds more temporary cloudiness, starting off.

Either way, though, your rum should clear like glass.

And the dunder pit will be murky for quite awhile since there will be a lot of active microbes working in it until they have done all they can do with your dunder. But microbes in your dunder pit are a wonderful thing. So no worries there.

Buccaneer Bob wrote:

Antler24 wrote:I'm not too worried about the colour to be honest, it will pick up more colour from oak when I have a chance to get some more. My biggest thing was clearing the dunder, it's been 2 weeks and the jar of dunder is still very cloudy.

Are you talking about the dunder for your dark rum essence or for your dunder pit?

The dark rum essence will never clear completely. It will eventually look like black glass, but light won't really pass through it.

But there is a thin layer of whitish sediment that will settle at the bottom of your essence bottle, and it's nice to get rid of that stuff if you can, because it adds more temporary cloudiness, starting off.

Either way, though, your rum should clear like glass.

And the dunder pit will be murky for quite awhile since there will be a lot of active microbes working in it until they have done all they can do with your dunder. But microbes in your dunder pit are a wonderful thing. So no worries there.

I'm talking about Dundee for the dark rum essence, I didn't pour it off the sediment so that's something to try next. I haven't looked at it lately either it may be cleared up by now, I'll check tonight and let you know.

Just did a large batch last week and it's still fermenting. Maybe I have more fermentable sugars in the molasses. 42lts (30kg) of molasses, 18lts dunder (not live), 315g yeast, 3 tbl spoons of Epsom salts, 2 vitamin tablets.

Has anyone else had longer ferments? It's not heated. Just ambient temp. About 18*C.

Rum likes it hot, 18C is pretty cool it will ferment but will take a long time.
Can you use a heating blanket or something to get it up around 26C?

Does that effect the taste?

Using bakers yeast? Of course you don't want to get it too warm but too cold will make it take forever.
Where is rum made commercially? What's ambient temp there?
80F works great, this isn't a Lager you're brewing.

pochine wrote:Just did a large batch last week and it's still fermenting. Maybe I have more fermentable sugars in the molasses. 42lts (30kg) of molasses, 18lts dunder (not live), 315g yeast, 3 tbl spoons of Epsom salts, 2 vitamin tablets.

Has anyone else had longer ferments? It's not heated. Just ambient temp. About 18*C.

Yeah that's a little cool, my basement runs around the same temps and it will ferment but will take a long time. I use bakers yeast and a 50w aquarium heater to keep the ferment at a minimum 25*, heater cost $20 or so maybe works like a charm

pochine wrote:Does that effect the taste?

Remember, the yeast is responsible for pooping out all of your alcohol.

Keeping your yeast happy arguably has more effect on the taste than any possible combination of still variant, bubble plates, perforated plates, packing, lava rocks, charcoal filters, dephlagmators (shotgun or otherwise), etc. etc. etc.

I've seen a lot of people saying that they use aquarium heaters, which look to be ~$15-30, depending on how big your bucket is. Use the HD Google Search up there to look for aquarium water heater if you're interested.

pochine wrote:Just did a large batch last week and it's still fermenting. Maybe I have more fermentable sugars in the molasses. 42lts (30kg) of molasses, 18lts dunder (not live), 315g yeast, 3 tbl spoons of Epsom salts, 2 vitamin tablets.

Has anyone else had longer ferments? It's not heated. Just ambient temp. About 18*C.

Am I to assume that you used some water, too? Or is that it: 42 liters of molasses, 18 liters of dunder, 315 grams of yeast, 3 tbsp Epsom salts, and 2 vitamins?

If that's everything in your ferment, your wash would have an insanely high starting gravity and be insanely acidic. And I doubt it would ferment at all, really.

So did you use some water, too?

And your ambient temperature of 18C (64F) should be great for your ferment. Some guys say that you need to duplicate a Caribbean climate to make rum, but I'm not really sold on that idea, myself.

Yeast are still yeast, after all.

I have fermented rum with my average ambient temperature as low as 10C (50F) and as high as 28C (82F) and still managed to make some great rum. I only see a difference in how long it takes to ferment.

With an average ambient temperature of 10C, it will take 20+ days to finish a ferment, and at 28C, the ferment will complete in 7 days or less.

Buccaneer Bob wrote:

pochine wrote:Just did a large batch last week and it's still fermenting. Maybe I have more fermentable sugars in the molasses. 42lts (30kg) of molasses, 18lts dunder (not live), 315g yeast, 3 tbl spoons of Epsom salts, 2 vitamin tablets.

Has anyone else had longer ferments? It's not heated. Just ambient temp. About 18*C.

Am I to assume that you used some water, too? Or is that it: 42 liters of molasses, 18 liters of dunder, 315 grams of yeast, 3 tbsp Epsom salts, and 2 vitamins?

If that's everything in your ferment, your wash would have an insanely high starting gravity and be insanely acidic. And I doubt it would ferment at all, really.

So did you use some water, too?

And your ambient temperature of 18C (64F) should be great for your ferment. Some guys say that you need to duplicate a Caribbean climate to make rum, but I'm not really sold on that idea, myself.

Yeast are still yeast, after all.

I have fermented rum with my average ambient temperature as low as 10C (50F) and as high as 28C (82F) and still managed to make some great rum. I only see a difference in how long it takes to ferment.

With an average ambient temperature of 10C, it will take 20+ days to finish a ferment, and at 28C, the ferment will complete in 7 days or less.

ha, no definitely water in there. Its about 1/2 full now. I tested the SG and i calculated an ABV of about 9.2%.

Is that a little high for the first stage (mollases).

I have attached a heater to the fermenter now. It bubbling away at about 26*C now.

I picked up 20 kgs of Fancy Molasses from a food service company in town in anticipation of trying this recipe. But of course I have no dunder. Hearing references to "live" dunder, microbes etc, I'm wondering if one can shortcut this differently on the first time. Would the culture from Kombucha work in kickstarting a dunder pit? I'm thinking about getting a small ferment going with bakers yeast, boiling it to kill it and adding to some molasses and water with a Kombucha "Mother". My neighbour makes his own and grows these larger tissue like floating growths, which he either discards or leashes them and takes for a walk. Thoughts?

pochine wrote:ha, no definitely water in there. Its about 1/2 full now. I tested the SG and i calculated an ABV of about 9.2%.

Is that a little high for the first stage (mollases).

Yeah, if your potential alcohol for the molasses started off at 9.2%, you should be fine. Once your fermentation slows down, go ahead and add the sugar.

Maxximus Flavius wrote:I picked up 20 kgs of Fancy Molasses from a food service company in town in anticipation of trying this recipe. But of course I have no dunder. Hearing references to "live" dunder, microbes etc, I'm wondering if one can shortcut this differently on the first time. Would the culture from Kombucha work in kickstarting a dunder pit? I'm thinking about getting a small ferment going with bakers yeast, boiling it to kill it and adding to some molasses and water with a Kombucha "Mother". My neighbour makes his own and grows these larger tissue like floating growths, which he either discards or leashes them and takes for a walk. Thoughts?

It sounds to me like it would make about as good a dunder starter as anything. I say give it a go and let us know how it works out for you.

It took about 7-10 days to fermente out just the molasses. That was fine. i disolved half of the suger in hot water and let it cool. Through it into the fermenter and nothing. I measured the sg and it showed about 9.5% before i put the suger in.

Anyone have any ideas why it is not continuing? Is the abv too high for the yeast? I used bakers yeast. I thought i may have killed the yeast so i through some more in and still nothing.

Another thought would be the ph is too low now. I havent checked it yet but will do it yomorrow. I have thrown in some oyster shells but not sure if its too late for that.

Any feedback would be great.

pochine wrote:It took about 7-10 days to fermente out just the molasses. That was fine. i disolved half of the suger in hot water and let it cool. Through it into the fermenter and nothing. I measured the sg and it showed about 9.5% before i put the suger in.

Anyone have any ideas why it is not continuing? Is the abv too high for the yeast? I used bakers yeast. I thought i may have killed the yeast so i through some more in and still nothing.

Another thought would be the ph is too low now. I havent checked it yet but will do it yomorrow. I have thrown in some oyster shells but not sure if its too late for that.

Any feedback would be great.

You never did say how much water you used in your recipe, other than to say that you used some water and "Its about 1/2 full now", which really doesn't tell me much.

So I'm not really sure, but I'm guessing you may have had your starting gravity too high and the yeast either didn't survive or they did all they could before giving up with your potential alcohol still in the 9.5% range.

Anyway, given where you are on this, my best recommendation would be to go ahead and run what you have, see what kind of alcohol you come up with, and then fix your problems on the next go-round.

If you don't get much alcohol out of it, you could have overdone it with the dunder and had the wash too acidic for the yeast to survive, or you might just need to find better yeast for the next go-round.

There is plenty of information here on the forum about yeast brands, so I won't go through that. But also look for an expiration date on your yeast and don't use it if it is out-of-date.

Now then, if you DO get a reasonable amount of alcohol out of this batch, that means that your yeast did their thing, and that wasn't the problem.

So then you'll have to look at your calculations and not use so much molasses and/or sugar on the next go-round.

Buccaneer Bob wrote:

Maxximus Flavius wrote:I picked up 20 kgs of Fancy Molasses from a food service company in town in anticipation of trying this recipe. But of course I have no dunder. Hearing references to "live" dunder, microbes etc, I'm wondering if one can shortcut this differently on the first time. Would the culture from Kombucha work in kickstarting a dunder pit? I'm thinking about getting a small ferment going with bakers yeast, boiling it to kill it and adding to some molasses and water with a Kombucha "Mother". My neighbour makes his own and grows these larger tissue like floating growths, which he either discards or leashes them and takes for a walk. Thoughts?

It sounds to me like it would make about as good a dunder starter as anything. I say give it a go and let us know how it works out for you.

I started this as a new topic.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 11&t=57616

Maxximus Flavius wrote:I started this as a new topic.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 11&t=57616

I have subscribed to your topic, and I'm really looking forward to seeing where it goes. Yeah, there has been a whole lot of research into the microbes that play a part in rum production, and I am sure your experiment with the Kombucha culture will add to the discussion.

Started a similar batch up tonight after reading this whole thread last night when I couldn't sleep. Here's how it went together:

~93 ounces Plantation Unsulphered Blackstrap Molasses from a health food store
6 Tbsp Real Lime Juice
100g bakers yeast (to sacrifice for nutrients)
4 tbsp bakers yeast

Mixed 31oz molasses with 1 gallon water and 100g yeast and brought to a boil. While waiting for it to boil I mixed the other 62oz molasses with water to about the 3 gallon mark in 5 gallon bucket. Added lime juice and mixed. Boiled the initial mixture for 15 minutes and added to the fermenter. Stirred well and brought it up to ~4.5-4.75 gallon mark. Let it cool to 90F. Mixed up 4 tbsp bakers yeast with 8oz water to rehydrate yeast. Pitched the yeast into the mix. Prior to pitching I checked the OG with my refractometer and had 1.063. I'll check on it here later to see how it is going but I imagine it will kick off soon.

So long story short, recently moved and don't have all my stuff yet. This is mainly to get something going to start a dunder pit and along with the added benefit of some rum on the side! I have 5.5 pounds of turbinado (raw) cane sugar for the exit step. I am not sure how much I will be putting in yet, if any. The extra lime juice was to counteract the EXTREMELY hard water I have. I wish i had all my stuff, I will soon enough but had to get something going after reading through last night. I'll keep you posted.