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kiwistiller wrote:A very conservative lower cut for, say, a mild whisky, might be 70%. for a full bodied spirit like rum, you may go quite deep into the tails, even as low as 50%.

Is that the instantaneous ABV or the total ABV of all the distillate from the current run?

I mean, if I take 100ml off and measure the ABV of that 100ml at 70% is that my cut for mild whisky, or do I continuously measure the ABV of all the collected distillate until it drops to 70%?

Ta.

There's a HIYOOJ difference between cutting at 70% on a run using a 12%abv wash and a run using a 5%abv mash and spirit runs with low wines.

How such a blanket statement could be made, I don't understand.

Jesus turned water into wine, we turn wine into shine.

Hillbilly Popstar wrote:There's a HIYOOJ difference between cutting at 70% on a run using a 12%abv wash and a run using a 5%abv mash and spirit runs with low wines.

How such a blanket statement could be made, I don't understand.

Jesus turned water into wine, we turn wine into shine.

That statement was made some years ago with caveats, things have come some way since then, but, the basic idea of it is still very very valid

Well I am still learning. But it's funny that making cuts via abv is acceptable yet making cuts via temp is so frowned upon cause for each still the two go hand in hand.

Jesus turned water into wine, we turn wine into shine.

Hillbilly Popstar wrote:Well I am still learning. But it's funny that making cuts via abv is acceptable yet making cuts via temp is so frowned upon cause for each still the two go hand in hand.

Jesus turned water into wine, we turn wine into shine.

,
I mean that is not the end all and be all, depending on the type of still and the product.

For example, I am using a pot still at present, and I have thermometers all over it. After 15 runs of the same ferment, I kinda know that if my temp is in a particular range and my ABV is also, then that is pretty much where I will make the cuts, because I have repeated it so many times, as, I suspect KS had.

OKay, but what are we measuring when we talk about cutting by ABV? Is it the instantaneous ABV of the spirit as it comes out the still, or is it the total ABV of all the condensate from the current run?

eStill wrote:OKay, but what are we measuring when we talk about cutting by ABV? Is it the instantaneous ABV of the spirit as it comes out the still, or is it the total ABV of all the condensate from the current run?

On this occasion I think they were reading the parrot. Don't quote me on that although.

I concur

Jesus turned water into wine, we turn wine into shine.

aduckyfour wrote:

eStill wrote:OKay, but what are we measuring when we talk about cutting by ABV? Is it the instantaneous ABV of the spirit as it comes out the still, or is it the total ABV of all the condensate from the current run?

On this occasion I think they were reading the parrot. Don't quote me on that although.

You are correct about that, aduckyfour. BUT...one has to correct for temperatures. That means, if your alcoholmeter is calibrated to 20 C, and your product is coming out at 35 C, you'll have to correct for the last 15 C.
You can read about the alcoholmeter if you click on the link in my signature.

My personal opinion is to make the cuts by taste and smell, not depending on the reading of your alcoholmeter. (it can serve you as a guideline, though)
I also don't use a parrot, but that's another subject.

Edit: How would one know the total ABV of the current run, if it's still in progress and divided into several jars..?
So if you want a reading you will of course, take a reading from the parrot (if you use one).
In my case, I use a graduated glass cylinder and take a sample of product. I have a correction table at hand, for the temperature at any given time.
It also gives me the opportunity to water the sample down and taste it. By watering it down, some of the flavours will come through.
For this purpose, I use a shot glass and pour some product into it. Nosing and tasting the product will determine what to do and indicates how far the run is at any given time.

Danespirit wrote:How would one know the total ABV of the current run, if it's still in progress and divided into several jars..?

By knowing the volume and ABV of the contents of the jars.

Danespirit wrote:So if you want a reading you will of course, take a reading from the parrot (if you use one).
In my case, I use a graduated glass cylinder and take a sample of product. I have a correction table at hand, for the temperature at any given time.

Yeah. That's what I'm doing.

Danespirit wrote:It also gives me the opportunity to water the sample down and taste it. By watering it down, some of the flavours will come through.
For this purpose, I use a shot glass and pour some product into it. Nosing and tasting the product will determine what to do and indicates how far the run is at any given time.

I hope to get there: I don't quite have the "nose" for it yet, though!!

eStill wrote:

Danespirit wrote:How would one know the total ABV of the current run, if it's still in progress and divided into several jars..?

By knowing the volume and ABV of the contents of the jars.

So what about the amount still left in the boiler...?
Measuring what you have already got and calculating something from that, won't get you there..

Danespirit wrote:So what about the amount still left in the boiler...?

That's largely irrelevant to my question: what do we measure when taking cuts? Do we measure the instantaneous ABV, or the total ABV to date of the current run. What's left int he container doesn't give us any indication of the ABV of the total which has already evaporated.

Danespirit wrote:Measuring what you have already got and calculating something from that, won't get you there..

I don't understand. Evaluating what you've already distilled is the only thing you can use to make your cuts. What's still in the pot is inconsequential.

eStill wrote:That's largely irrelevant to my question: what do we measure when taking cuts? Do we measure the instantaneous ABV, or the total ABV to date of the current run. What's left int he container doesn't give us any indication of the ABV of the total which has already evaporated.

Most here "measure", "decide" being a better word, cuts using smell, taste, and feel... How much we've collected, what the vapor temperature is, what the %ABV is, are irrelevant and inaccurate indicators...

rad14701 wrote:Most here "measure", "decide" being a better word, cuts using smell, taste, and feel... How much we've collected, what the vapor temperature is, what the %ABV is, are irrelevant and inaccurate indicators...

Heh! I get it. I'm a noob, though, and haven't yet developed my "palette"! Can we take decent cuts by temperature, then? I'm very good at measuring temperature. Trouble is "cut points" seem to be a very subjective thing, and the vapour temp is going to be largely dependent on the mix in the wash.

Taste and smell will work best, ABV and temp don't tell you what the flavor's like.

Have a couple of cuts parties, even alone, and take notes on what you taste as you move through the jars. You'll be amazed at how different each and every 200ml tastes.

You'll learn what's good and what's bad pretty quickly. You may make mistakes and allow too much heads or tails in sometimes, but you can always re-run your mistakes.

In everything with distilling, Patience is your best friend.

I have a question: folk here talk about producing a run of 40% ABV vodka. Does this mean that the'y just run a lot of (arguably) "tails" into their distillate until such a point that the overall ABV happens to be 40%? I must have misunderstood because my tails below about 40% smells like something I wouldn't want to put in my mouth, although it does have a lot of flavours.

For the most members here vodka is a grain spirit distilled to 95%. To distill down to 40% total abv either direct from mash or in a double run would have too much taste, probably bad taste.

der wo wrote:For the most members here vodka is a grain spirit distilled to 95%. To distill down to 40% total abv either direct from mash or in a double run would have too much taste, probably bad taste.

See, I would agree, based on the smell of my "tails". Yet, the advice from some is to not water down the vodka (not with tapwater, anyway).

Could you post the link?
I would like to read the context.

eStill wrote:

der wo wrote:For the most members here vodka is a grain spirit distilled to 95%. To distill down to 40% total abv either direct from mash or in a double run would have too much taste, probably bad taste.

See, I would agree, based on the smell of my "tails". Yet, the advice from some is to not water down the vodka (not with tapwater, anyway).

I dilute my refluxed 95% neutral spirits down to 40% using plain old tap water for use as vodka... Don't confuse vodka with flavored spirits... If you're pot stilling then do at least three runs, diluting to 35% - 40% with water for each subsequent run...

rad14701 wrote:I dilute my refluxed 95% neutral spirits down to 40% using plain old tap water for use as vodka... Don't confuse vodka with flavored spirits... If you're pot stilling then do at least three runs, diluting to 35% - 40% with water for each subsequent run...

That's the kind of definitive response I wanted. I shall continue to dilute my 80% ABV refluxed single runs down to 40%. Thanks.

Awesome read, the answer to every possible question in regards to cutting is here.
Extremely informative.

raketemensch wrote:Taste and smell will work best, ABV and temp don't tell you what the flavor's like.

Have a couple of cuts parties, even alone, and take notes on what you taste as you move through the jars. You'll be amazed at how different each and every 200ml tastes.

You'll learn what's good and what's bad pretty quickly. You may make mistakes and allow too much heads or tails in sometimes, but you can always re-run your mistakes.

In everything with distilling, Patience is your best friend.

Taste and smell do work best, I'm starting to learn more into cutting.
High ABV's don't mean it tastes right.

Essayons wrote:

raketemensch wrote:Taste and smell will work best, ABV and temp don't tell you what the flavor's like.

Have a couple of cuts parties, even alone, and take notes on what you taste as you move through the jars. You'll be amazed at how different each and every 200ml tastes.

You'll learn what's good and what's bad pretty quickly. You may make mistakes and allow too much heads or tails in sometimes, but you can always re-run your mistakes.

In everything with distilling, Patience is your best friend.

Taste and smell do work best, I'm starting to learn more into cutting.
High ABV's don't mean it tastes right.

Exactly..! You can make a piss poor whisky on a reflux still and get 90+% ABV.
High ABV ain't a scale for quality.
The quality starts with the ferment. If you ferment low-quality products, you'll distill low-quality spirits.
Your senses should determine where to make the cuts, not a thermometer neither a hydrometer.
They could be used as a help and rough guideline, though...

+100 to what Danespirit said

Also I find as things go on I like tighter cuts for my whisky if drinking it white or younger.

B

Attached is a link showing my Boka running in pot still mode. You can see the oils being collected which is telling me I'm running deep into tails.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ehD5hQVqiQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Thank you for this - trying to learn on a 3gal pot still!

Deerhunter wrote:Attached is a link showing my Boka running in pot still mode. You can see the oils being collected which is telling me I'm running deep into tails.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ehD5hQVqiQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Thanks for posting - that's really helpful. I set a sample of my tails next to the rest of my run and sure enough it was cloudy and full of oily thingies. Highly recommend anyone starting out like me use all five senses to "feel" the difference in the cuts!

Dunderwear wrote:Thank you for this - trying to learn on a 3gal pot still!

Dunderwear welcome! I also run a small pot still and wrote a post on how I run it. It's in my by line. The most important thing I've learned in cuts, is the touch,taste and feel.

Lots of great information here.

Thanks from a newbie!