Jimbo's easy 1/2barrel Wheated Bourbon and Gumballhead

[Brendan]

Hey stumpjumper, I'm unfamiliar with ever having that puke smell in a mash so I'm not sure how dire the situation would be. In terms of the starter, it's a natural progression of bacteria (think it's in the lacto family?), which only lasts 12 or so hours and is overrun by the final bacteria which brings on the different odour.

As far as I am aware (which isn't very far), that smell/bacteria in a full mash should be overtaken by the yeast which has been added...that should be more powerful and takeover other bacteria (I think)...but in saying that, I'm unfamiliar if it means throw it out. I certainly wouldn't. If there's still sugars left, maybe some fresh distiller's yeast. Otherwise, maybe just run it and see...I can imagine it would be quite 'butery', but can be a desired flavour/character blended in and aged long term Just spit balling here...

[Jimbo]

stump, the puke smell is dire. When you get it its game over for that mash. Doesnt go away, and doesnt distill out. A healthy mash will never go through a puke smell phase. Its a butrytus infection, and very nasty. Other infections, like lacto are largely harmless. Your mash should smell good, in all phases of cooking, mashing and fermenting.

[Brendan]

Thanks Jimbo, that's good to know if I ever get it in the future, I won't waste my time pursuing it further. I have heard of distillers (Bourbon) chasing undesired aromas from bacteria which cause that 'buttery' result, which I think is the harmless lacto infection you mentioned that is often induced purposely.

[stumpjumper]

Hey Guys Thanks

I am going to continue to follow this thread and will chip in my experiences as they happen. Fortunately, I have not built a mash that smelled like that but I did get that phase in my starter experiments. (Brendan's thread). In the starter process, it comes and goes pretty fast on the corn I am using, but the final aroma is sweet!

Tim

[Jimbo]

Yeast often make sulper components as a byproduct. Thats different than a pukey infection which is created by bacteria. Lager type (bottom fermenting) beer yeasts expecially are notorious for the sulpher smell. Its why a diacetyl rest is used bumping the temp to 60F for a couple days, the yeast at that warmer temp will reabsorb the sulpher. (Lager yeast like 48F for 2-3 weeks primary then 60 for 2 days for diacetyl rest then 40 for 4 weeks for lagering). I recently bought another freezer and put a temp controller on it to use for lagering chest, its great. Real pain in the arse to make a nice lager without one, finicky damn yeasts. Anyway, Im babbling again.

[Brendan]

Anyway, Im babbling again.

Well we're learning again I don't know much about all the beer relevant stuff, so its always great to learn about anything that crosses into the distilling world

[stumpjumper]

Is the bacteria airborne? I assumed through these posts that my most likely carrier was the malted grains (in my case barley) as I am using that and corn. Does soaking corn before cooking help to reduce the incidence of bacteria? I understand the concept of a race between nasty bugs and the yeast. I am looking to give the yeast a better pair of sneakers.

[DukeBoxer]

Thanks for that sulpher tip Jimbo, every now and then on a new ferment I get that smell and it worries me but then it goes away. On my last gumballhead especially but when it was done it smelled fine.

[Jimbo]

Yes the sulpher smells from yeast go away. And if there's any residual after ferment, the copper in your still knocks it down. Sulpher smell is more like egg farts. Bad Infections smell like pile of shit someone puked on, or a loaded baby diaper.

[DukeBoxer]

Haha, egg farts is what I'm getting. Good descriptions though!!

[Jimbo]

Just finished mashing a round of this with Corn Meal instead of the usual cracked corn. Hit 1.080, usually hit 1.065 or so with cracked corn. 82lbs grain/ 28 gal water in this round. Much better access to the starch with the fine grind of corn meal. Ill be watering this down to 1.065 before I pitch yeast.

Cheers, Jimbo.

[DukeBoxer]

Jimbo, let us know what your feelings are on the cornmeal compared to the cracked corn in flavor when this batch is done. Also I wanted to let you know that I had a kid over who is a whiskey blogger and as a side job sources and bottles single casks of whiskey. He tried my AG take on this recipe of just corn and wheat and enjoyed the flavor quite a bit. I also let him smell some of the one I had just made with the saison yeast and he said how it smelled very fruity. I just went to get some more yeast the other day, I couldn't get a culture going from the beer I bought.

[Jimbo]

Ok Im an idiot, but turns out it was a fortunate mistake. I just found 12 lbs of the 35 lbs of wheat I used, still in the bucket under my malt mill. So it wasnt 82 lbs, but 70 lbs of grain total. Which makes me happy because hitting 1.080 with 70 lbs and 28 gal is the best efficiency Ive ever gotten with corn. The fine grind of the corn meal makes a huge difference. I watered it down to 1.065 to keep the yeasties happy.

PPG works out to 31.1 for the geeks out there. Never came close with cracked corn.

[DukeBoxer]

What did you pay for the corn meal? I get it for a few cents more than cracked corn...$15 and change

[Jimbo]

$15 for 50lbs at Restaurant Depot.

[DukeBoxer]

Hey quick question about your mistake. What do you think about doing only 2 pounds of grain per gallon with the corn meal? On a side note I ordered a bag of rye flour from RD to make some rye. I'll post weight and price when it comes in. They said Tuesday so we'll see...

Did you run the cornmeal one yet? I'm wondering what your thoughts are on any difference in taste between that and cracked corn.

[Jimbo]

2 lbs for corn meal should be fine. I hit 1.080 with 28 gal and 70 lbs. Too high had to water down. Two pounds for all malt also. For cracked corn go up to 3 pounds. No I haven't ran it yet it's still fermenting

[NattyBoh]

First time trying this recipe and first time trying an AG (also...only my second ferment ever...probably my first mistake). Made 8gals and it took forever to get the temp down to below 80. I had a fan blowing on the keg (BAP) and had a modified wort chiller and it still took 6 hours to go from 145 down to 80. Pitched the yeast 2.5 hours ago and put the airlock on. No bubbles yet. I realize the long time to get the temp down opened up the opportunity for infection but how long till I start seeing some activity in the airlock? I ran AllBran recipe 2 weeks ago and the airlock was bubbling within minutes (smaller amount...4 gals).

[Jimbo]

6 hours is not too bad, some folks let it cool overnight. that gets dangerous. Bubbling in airlock can take 1-2 days depending on the size of the pitch and wort, and gravity.

[NattyBoh]

Thanks Jimbo. Great thread by the way. It's varsity and I'm JV. Hopefully it works out. Will update soon.

[Jimbo]

haha, Just keep your eyes off the cheerleaders and pay attention and youll be fine.

[NattyBoh]

Bubbles in airlock. Just impatient, I guess.

[NattyBoh]

Bubbling like crazy now. Assuming this ferments out... A few questions
1- should I air out between strip and spirit run?
2- how long to air out from spirit run to aging/bottling?
3- I'm using spiral oak... Should I still charr to make this a true bourbon?

[NattyBoh]

4- Jimbo, do you mind a private message/email or two for some run specific questions? Thanks.

[Jimbo]

1. no
2. I never air out. AG's and Brandy's sans sugar are fine going right in the barrel. IMO of course, do as you wish.
3. yes Id char. Char'ing burns and dark caramelizes some of the wood sugars, I think its important in the flavor. Char then soak in water for a couple hours then drop them in your hooch.

note: spirals expose tons of end grain. Barrels have none. Some feel end grain may add some harshness. I dunno, never used spirals, but between chips, cubes, sticks and barrels. My least to most favorite based on how stuff turned out is in that order shown. Dunno if its because chips have the most end grain, or because its hard to get a char on them since they arent deep enough to get a gradient on the caramelization or what. Dont get me wrong, Ive made some nice stuff with chips, mostly apple brandy before I got inte AG's and more serious oak chunks. But there's a definite difference between them 4 oak methods.

4. no I dont mind. But if its something you think others can benefit from post it here. If not fire away.

[NattyBoh]

Thx x4.

[Fills Jars Slowly]

Hi Jimbo, I am still here, though I have not posted in a long time. Been honing my distilling chops silently. I am interested in your experiments with cornmeal. Looks like the average PPG with cracked corn is something like 26 or so and you report 31+ with cornmeal. Now, given cracked corn is about 2/3rds the price of cornmeal in my world, there isn't a question of which is cheapest, though with good enough efficiency gains cornmeal comes within spitting distance of paying for itself. My questions are about results and the mashing experience.

Overall in your opinion, how is cracked corn to deal with in the mash vs. cornmeal and do you have any thoughts at present over the difference in product using one for the other?

The siren song of efficiency (setting aside cost) is a strong weakness of mine, and if I can make a gallon of whiskey with fewer pounds of grain, it isn't necessarily a deal breaker that I pay 10 cents more per pound for meal or even 1 or 2 dollars more per mash. Whataya think? From the perspective of dealing with the mash, squeezing the grains, etc. does cornmeal work ok, or is it a case of, "forget the efficiency, throw in a few more pounds of cracked corn and have a drink?"

[Jimbo]

FJS, if youre after efficiency then for sure go with the meal. Its a nice small grind, clean, higher grade food corn and much better ppg numbers. A win all around.

[Shine NOLA]

Thanks for this Jimbo
I will be trying this ,my 1st. AG today.
and would love to hear you play
http://homedistiller.org/forum/download ... &mode=view
here's a lil gem i picked up recently for cheap
more fun than my Epi wildcat

[Jimbo]

Hope its going well for ya NOLA.

Im switching gears on yeast here from US-05/WLP001/Wyeast1056. There's another American Ale strain 1272, I think from Anchor Liberty. I love whats its doing to my beers. It finishes softer and fruitier, which is a nice balance to the uber hoppy high ibu of my typical ales and IPA'S. I think the fruitiness will add a nice dimension to these bourbons. Gearing up for winter stillin season with several bags of grain and 3 liters of yeast sediment.