Our reflux still

Blueraven · Post by **Blueraven** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:56 pm

Well Mr. Guest whoever you are?????

thanks for your input..Im making mine as i speak..just got the peices cut out..(EL-2 aka Bokakob) and cant wait to use it. Fact is, ill be way way back in the wood in Ak building my wife's retirement home and i need this to keep me sane <G>!!

Well if ya cant provide pics then how abt a rough sketch..I stink i got your description but ya never know..

Thanks guest! Must be the Phantom!

Blueraven · Post by **Blueraven** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 10:59 pm

Guest,

Pls give www.?????? as links to your pics ?

The Htpp's don't work..

Blueraven

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:11 pm

http://tinyurl.com/cegbf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
follow link News/ ecco friendly still

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:18 pm

http://tinyurl.com/auq5d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
this one is in yahoo/distillers/files/ministill/design=recipe

hope that helps

Blueraven · Post by **Blueraven** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:17 am

well thats bokakob's design..

is that what youwerer revering to?

Blueraven · Post by **Blueraven** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:25 am

guest ,

your a ding-dong! YOu may be a genius but you cant communicate.

you danced ard the problem for 2 days & then gave a abstract answer with urls that didnt work..

what WE need is deifinite answers with pics and descriptions.

Try reading Caesar's "The Conquest of Gaul" and get a grip on communication..

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:01 am

Blueraven; I too could ridicule you; I think very clearly I say , yes it's Bokakob mini still.
Point I was making is that things can be simple.
Put a cross flow condenser on top of a Bokakob style LM column, with a VM off the other side. I notice in another post you are having trouble making your coil and when i look back I see I said Bokakob has a few skills you don't. Am I surprissed you had trouble. No

Well I just re read that and I'm afraid I can't say it any clearer.
Do you really need a picture.

Now if you want to heed the advice it's up to you.

Oh and by the way, use structured copper mesh.

Take care.

Brett · Post by **Brett** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:24 am

bite ur tongues boys.

in defence to blue some of the reading of how to modify this design can be a bit missleading if u dont have the still to look at the same time as reading, I understood u to a point but there were a few areas u lost me on.

A picture can speak a thousand words n we await ur picture

Now I don't want to offend anybody, I know how precious we all are about our stills, but, there is always a better one.

This quote is very true n u seem very precious about your still uv taken time to build n perfect, i cant wait to see it. But dont forget there is always a better one in someone elses opinion.

If you can explain to me the purpose of the valve that takes condensate back to the column

Better read that pdf thats around explaining the operation of this design of still, its the well known offset head design and what ur basically doing is creating a chamber in this offset head where the steam is condensed into the alcohol which then collects in the lower part of the head, you then use the 2 valves to control the amount of reflux and the collection.

Post by **Grayson_Stewart** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:59 am

I'm sure cross flow condensors work, but they look a little jenky, have many parts to solder and fit together, and I don't see how the condesor could be used in a stripping run. Some product is always returned to the column.

I need to make another double helix coil for a friend in a few days and I'll try to make a small movie clip and pics of how I made mine and place them on the internet for anyone who whishes to see one actually being formed.

I have the offset head with the double helix coil, but have made two of the El-2 designs to be used...just haven't cleaned them out yet. The EL-2 is much easier to build with the exception of getting a very exact fit of the EL plates when soldering. Soldering doesn't like gaps very much, I had to even braze one of the columns.

Noo bee · Post by **Noo bee** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:33 am

All this talk about an EL-2 design. I googled for it and found nothing. Can you guys perhaps provide a link to these plans or pics?

Sheesh there are alot of link that dont work on this thread

Blueraven · Post by **Blueraven** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:51 am

No bee,

Send me a address & Ill email it to ya..no prob

Blueraven

Blueraven · Post by **Blueraven** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:55 am

OK ok. NO ridicule from me..

Just alittle frustrated I guess..

Take Care.

Noo Bee · Post by **Noo Bee** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:17 pm

Thank you Blue Raven. You can email me the plans or pics at Eugenekumquat@yahoo.com. Really appreciate it!! Thanks a truckload!

Also, would anyone out there like to get rid of their early model stills? I wouldnt mind taking on such models for the cost of shipping

Jaeger · Post by **Jaeger** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:46 pm

Can I get the plans, or a link?
freeipodskickass@gmail.com

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:02 pm

Hi Brett;
Thanks for the reminder ,I have bitten my tounge-
Yes I understand descriptions are hard to follow with out a picture but I did post a tinyurl way back.

If there is a better way, I'm all for it, just tell me I won't be offended.

Ah the 2 valves,,,,Bret you have just repeated the mantra but haven't explained why 2 valves. Take Bokakobs mini still as an example, it provides all the functions you list but does it with 1 valve. So why complicate things with 2.

Grayson;
looks,,,,well I can remember when the best looking car was a 56 chevy (or something),,,, but now theres lots better. Looks is just a matter of becoming accustomed,,,so "jenky" will soon be "funky".

Yes there are a few to many peices in the presented design, but if you put your mind to it, itcan be simplified.

I presume you mean that product will drip off the tubes straight down the column. not so. As there will always be a bias(lean) to one side so the drops tend to slide to the end plates and drain via that path. (of course don't put a dip in the middle of the tubes)

Your video will be great, wish I had the equiptment and skills to post something like that. that process really causes greif as flattening the tube really restricts water flow.

Of course the easiest way to fix both plates is via the slot first method, then braze, then linish off the over hang.

Pictures of mine are certainly on the way. I have a friend coming over on sunday with his didgital and I'll get him to do the tech stuff of getting them posted. Can't get my head round all the techno stuff.

Blueraven;
No worry bout the ridicule, I appreciate the frustration this can all cause that's why I was trying to steer you down the easy path.

take care

Jaeger · Post by **Jaeger** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:06 pm

Bokakob's plans
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bokakob" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Also, the only reason I can think of for the two valves is to increase the efficiency of a stripping run.
I personally am leaning towards an offset head design, then again, bakakob's design is essentially an offset design without being offset

Brett · Post by **Brett** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:44 pm

I have to admit Bokakob's does look far simpler to build, i guess the offset head could be simplified to one valve by placing the reflux pipe a little up the side (instead of the base), without the valve and building up a resevoir controling the amount of reflux by just adjusting the output so as to not drain the resevoir.

i think the 2 valves will allow a more acurate n finer adjustment, but i do like the simplicity of bokakbob's

Post by **Grayson_Stewart** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:48 pm

You will find that the small needle or control valves are incredibly sensitive. Just the slightest turn opens the valve up to allow flow. It is a very fine adjustment from 2 drips per second to 20 drips per second. I used two valves in mine and the extra valve for relux return is a complete waste. If you place the reflux return line just above your product valve and allow it to "overflow" back to the center of the column, you will be much happier.

Blueraven · Post by **Blueraven** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 8:20 pm

Well i like the eco-friendly design on that site the guest linked to and I learned some abt constructing one at that site...

The El-2 aught to work and later maybe build a real plate still.

Can any one provide the qwikest stepts to make the elliptical plates in the design. It was suggested I cut a slot in a portion of the pipe, I guess 1/2 way thru the diameter, and make a template from that..

Seems like some swift acad expert cld sap that out. then ya print the template out.

Hmm??

Arnie_sla · Post by **Arnie_sla** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 8:45 pm

Blueraven, If you want to make templates for ellipts, just open up MS Paint on your computer. Its normally in Accessories on your desk top. There is or should be a button to the left of screen that you click on and then you just drag the ellipts to the size you need. print on to card or stick paper on to card once printed.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 8:53 pm

Blueraven; my heart warms.
Now the elip plates.
No need for templates lets just keep it simple.
Cut a slot at the angle you want just over half way through.
Trick is to get a hacksaw blade just a bit thicker than your plate.
Get a peice of plate a bit bigger than you need, slip it in the cut; braze it ;then linish/file/saw the bit left hang out off.

Now do the next on as the pipe will have regained its strength.

Take care.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:02 pm

needle valves

We've had this a few times as well.
What you buy with a lable "needle valve " for $4.99 at ace hardware is not a needle valve. Wether it has an "O" ring seat or not; it is more than likely a small version of the common old garden tap, or seat valve.

A real "needle" valve has just that in it, a needle.
This will set you back 10 times the ace or where ever, ring in. They are precission valves and hence cost $s
Now I might be wrong, because I haven't been to ace but I bet I'm not.
A real needle valve will have a graduated scale so you can reproduce your setting.

take care

Uncle Remus · Post by **Uncle Remus** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:07 pm

Anonymous wrote: My opinion of the theory behind UR's still is,its dubious. Yes it will work but why complicate it, and anything less than 95.5% ABV and you're wasting your time if you are making neutral spirit. If you can explain to me the purpose of the valve that takes condensate back to the column, or the purpose of the sight glass, or the purpose of trying to hold the resivor of condensate there at a particular level, and any of them have merit,then I will bend over.

I have only one comment. If I can take 60 litres of wash and turn it into 88-90% spirit in about 6 hours, why the f*** would I want to spend 12-17 hours and burn twice the fuel to get it up to 95% only to turn around and water it down to a 40- 45% spirit. The first time we ran this still, we did a stripping run first and and then distilled it a second time and yes we got about 94-95% alcohol and it never took 12-17 hours either. After this spirit was cut down to 40% or so, it never tasted any better than the 88-90% that we've been running since.

I think people get way to anal about trying to achieve the max alc/vol.

....but I guess THE GUEST KNOWS BEST!!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:18 pm

Brett.

good reasoning, but why do you still want a resivour of condensate.
Seems to me that the less held there the better, you will still be able to draw what ever ratio you choose by setting that one valve. It's not as though a resivour will let you draw of any quicker.

If you have a valid reason I'd like to know

just asking,
take care

Blueraven · Post by **Blueraven** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:19 pm

Guest,

Yeah you got it..thats what ill do and i just got thru drawing an ellipse for a template. HA!.

But your method is better so ill try that first..

Thanks Guy..I guess the Guest is a guy..Cld be a ahh no way..Not many Sheilas here.

BAYL...

Blueraven · Post by **Blueraven** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:21 pm

Also,,

I see the wisdom of a metal cutting blade for the miter saw..Bad news is they are about $100+ here.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:35 pm

Uncle remus, why so offended,glad i keep the shades for you !

Yes your plan of doing a stripping run is spot on.
Infact if you do 2 stripping runs and then combine them and run that to max % you will save even more power and time.

Now the reason I prefer to distill to 95.5% is because I'm not just taking out water, I'm taking out all the other (excuse me ) crap.
I then add water to 40%abv, or just put less in the coke.

If your line of thought was carried to the rediculous; why not just do a stripping run in a pot still to 40% and put that in your coke.

I do like your idea of running your product through a liebig to cool it so you can get an accurate SG reading. Seems to me that hot ethanol that comes out of a LM still must evaporate quite a bit.
Ofcourse I wouldn't want to suggest seeing you have the liebig just to run vapour into it via a gate valve and have the easiest to control VM still.

mmmmh, need to think about that.

And by the way I never said i knew it all, but I am interseted in learning as much as I can. I suppose I could just make crazy posts about the first lame thing that came into my head,, but what's the point.

So slow down brother, relax.

take care

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:47 pm

Well blueraven you're a smart one,cause i am more than just a pretty face.

I cut all my copper/aluminium/brass on my radial arm saw (just need a good back stop and hold it well as the blade wants to over run, and that's just with a tungsten blade. Infact I use all my hand tools with tungsten blades, planner/ routerdrop saw etc on those materials.

see you later blueraven

Brett · Post by **Brett** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:58 am

guest

The resevoir was to mimick the bokakbob but in an offset head design to simplyfy its use, because by adding the little dam (slot with metal in it) near the output as in the bokabob you are creating a resvoir of sorts.

by resevoir im not talking about ltrs, more like a small collection of liquid that is allowed to build up and overflow back into the colum.

the resevoir has nothing to do with the rate of collection but is to create the reflux same principle as the bokakbob.

Post by **Grayson_Stewart** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:41 am

Yes there are seat valves and needle valves. I have used both and I did pay alot more for the needle valves. I still found they were poor for adjusting in drips. Anyway....

For making the EL plates:

I found it was easier to follow a cut line if I wrapped a piece of string around the column on a slight slant, then maeked a line with a sharpie pen along that string. The line you mark needs to be slightly more than half way through the pipe. Then repeat for the upper plate. The plates really need to overlap so the column can be used for stripping runs without any loss back down the column.

The reason the plates are slanted is to allow product to roll from the upper plate, fall to the lower plate and roll towards the take off tube. A resevior effect is a by product of trying to get the product to the take off tube. There is no reason to create a resevior.

I got my plates by cutting a 2" piece off the end of my pipe....then cut through the 2" piece along the pipe wall so it can be rolled out flat. I've tried the method of forming the plates that was mentioned earlier (soldering in place then grinding/filing excess) that method is alot of work. If you have access to a slow revolution bandsaw it works great. Take the flattened pieces, place them int he slots you've cut in the column and mark them again with the sharpie pen. Then cut along the edge of the marked line....be sure not to get inside the marked line because your cut would then fall within the wall of the pipe.

The problem with drawing an ellipse on paper to make a template for an elliptical plate is that the ellipse you produce with the computer may not be the same ellipse you cut into your pipe....in fact I'd just about guarantee you it won't be unless you are using cad software and know a little about drafting you that you can project the correct slanted angle to repoduce the same elliptical shape. Use the above method and a monkey can't even screw it up.

As I said before, the only hard part about making one of these columns is keeping the slanted grooves you cut into the column as close as you can to the thickness of the plates you use.

Unless you are tryin to win a column beauty contest, there isn't even a reason to trim these plates. Not grinding them down and leaving them exposed will even allow your friends to visualize how the column works.

Home Distiller

Our reflux still

Links if you got them.....

Ellipts