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kiwistiller wrote:Out of interest OD, have you ever tried using finished neutral (cuts already made) or have you always done it with wash?

I'm using neutral with cuts being made Kiwi. This is the thire time through old Jenny.

blanik

yeah I'm pretty convinced of the merits of using cut neutral. means you don't loose any botanicals in the heads / tails.

Va bene, Finished the run and got five litres of 40abv, using OD's recipe except that I used three Tbls of juniper and one of tasmania Pepper. I suspect that while the recipe would be fine for a wash, I reckon I should have maybe halved it. It has a bitterness which is OK but perhaps a bit too bitter. This may be the pepper berries or maybe the botanicals were to much for the volume of etho.

However, I intend working on this and still have some pepper berries, so I'll try a sugar wash and see what happens.

Funny using a bag. The first to come through was totally tasteless but as the run progressed - particularly near the shutdown point - it became really strong. Obviously the botanicals need a bit of steam to work and just keep on working. This is what makes me think that I had too much bots for the run.

Not to worry, it was a usefull exercise. Like the quote in the latest Bill Owens page, "it's more like cooking than moonshining."

'My philosophy exactly, Bill'

blanik

blanikdog wrote:Funny using a bag. The first to come through was totally tasteless but as the run progressed - particularly near the shutdown point - it became really strong. Obviously the botanicals need a bit of steam to work and just keep on working. This is what makes me think that I had too much bots for the run.

This is why I run it from wash, by the time the forshots and heads have been taken you get the full flavour.

Good point, OD. I'll do that next time.

blanik

I'm pleased to announce that my post above is incorrect. After a few hours and a bit of stirring I thought I'd try it. Distilled it yesterday.
The first led to a second and it's not a bad gin at all. I'm unsure about the pepperberry flavour. There's 'something' there and it's delightful with some ice cubes and tonic.

Great recipe OD. I didn't have oriss root, ginger powder, star anice or angelica root, but I did have fresh ginger, dill leaves and angelica seed. Seemed to work.
This is a fun hobby!!!

I might just make it three.

blanik

4

My first try at gin:

In 650ml of 66%

1 1/4 Tablespoon Juniper
3/4 Tablespoon corriander
5 Fennel pieces
1 black pepper corn
5 fennel seeds
1 small bit of star anise
1cm strip of orange peel
3cm strip of lemon peel
tiny bit of mint leaf

crushed it all up with mortar & pestle and soaked for 4 days

redistilled with pot still, tipped the botanicals in with it (i.e. not in a bag)

The general consensus is:
"it's nice, but slightly different to the gin you buy"
I really like it, but will

I think next time as an experiment i'll change a few things (take mint leaf out, more fennel)

Where do you buy your Juniper from Kiwi? I got mine from the Bin Inn on Lincoln road.

I go to the spice trader, some nice stuff there. the shop smells amazing. You might be a little bit light on the juniper for a distilled gin, I reckon it doesn't extract as much as the others compared to it's performance with vapour infusion. four days is getting long for a soak.

It's funny you should mention mint. I've just been experimenting with Nepeta cataria (common catnip) in gin. I'm digging it. Seriously. It has replaced lavender in my vapour infused stuff. I'm also irresistable to cats and aphids now. And my skin repels mossies

EDIT I'm using the petals (not the whole flower clusters, just the purple bits), not the leaves, in case someone reads this and says, wow, that's a good idea, I'll put cat recreational drugs in my gin too.

kiwistiller wrote:It has replaced lavender in my vapour infused stuff. I'm also irresistable to cats and aphids now. And my skin repels mossies

you may laugh, but it is delicious. feline affection is a small price to pay

Now that would cause me a heap of trouble Kiwi

I have enough of a struggle keeping production up for SWMBO - loves her Bombay Sapphire flavoured stuff.
If I was to add catnip the bloody persian would probably be right into it too and it would be even harder to keep ahead

It took me a long time to work out this recipe, I was trying to do the Bombay gin head thing with a tilt towards Tangeray. Some of the problems I encountered may have had to do with the quality of some of my botanicals and the distilation techniques I was using had to change. The quality of the alcohol needs to be your FINEST. I like the distilled maceration flavor better than my gin head flavor. This recipe favors the upfront juniper of Tangeray while subtle citrus and warming herbs take the edge off the gin... I don't like being hit in the face by a pine bough any more than the next guy, but a walk in a pine forest on a warm spring day, well that is what I'm looking for. This will produce a sipping quality gin, but it can stand up to a bit of tonic or vermouth as well...

Macerate at least 24 hours but not more than 48 hours
1 gallon of the finest aged neutral you can produce at about 75% ABV
7 oz - Juniper berries (crushed)
2 oz - Coriander (crushed)
1 tsp - bitter orange peel (minced)
1 tsp - dried licorice root (little bits and pieces)
1 - whole Star Anise (crushed)
1/2 tsp - Grain of Paradise
1" from a cinnamon stick
zest 1/2 of a sweet orange
zest of 1 lemon
zest of 2 limes
1 small clove
4 fresh leaves from a Rosemary plant.

After half the maceration time has elapsed add 1/2 gallon of pure water.

When maceration time is over distill in a pot still, no scrubbers of any kind, as they knock down flavor profiles, and catch 100% of the distillate. No cuts are necessary as the quality of the neutral you have used is beyond reproach. Run the distillate down to 10% ABV or 99 degrees C. Some of the warm mouth feel crosses over at 98 to 99 degrees so do not shut down to early or your gin will lack a certain quality that comes from the coriander, be careful not to go to far and burn the maceration on the bottom of the still as it is a bitch to remove. I have burned it twice... yes I realize... I'm a slow learner.

The distillate is likely to be a flavor concentrate (unless you like your gin really strong), I add aged neutral to the distillate until I get a flavor profile that matches my taste. I do not water it down less than 141 proof as I like the way a gin and tonic turns out at the higher proof.

S&S

Wow S&S,
That sounds very nice.
Sure do wish my wife's Father was alive today. That recipe sounds like something he could have really enjoyed before kicking off.

S&S,
I am going to try your recipe/method. It will take a little while to build up enough good spirit to run it though. Seems between the wife and me we are using it up faster than I can make it. Something like Saphire is my goal.

Braz

Over the years I have made some very poor quality gin ... and this recipe gets me a good result. Sometimes it seems the herbs and spices are more or less potent than the last batch. I have purchased juniper berries that didn't give enough flavor and two years ago I got some of the most potent coriander of my life. If the batch turns out a little off I just add some more of what tastes like it is missing and redistill after it maserates. I think it improves in flavor if stored about six months to a year but most times it doesn't last long enough to verify that claim.

S&S

in 3l of 90%

42g juniper
25g corriander
~4g fennel seeds
two arms of star of star anise
3 cardamon pods
4 pepper corns
1 and a half almonds
1cm cinnamon quills
4 sq cm of lemon skin
3sq cm of lime skin

crushed and soaked for 3 days. distilled.

This is pretty much Kiwi's recipe.
Very popular with my friends - had a test session last night.
A little too heavy on the cirtus for me, and a little light on the juniper also.
Next time i'll cut the citrus out and add more juniper.
I still like it. The first thing i've made that i'm actually really proud of - which is lucky because i'm serving it at my 21st next weekend.
Am keen to try with the mint again also. Maybe the time after next.

The undiluted spirit (90%) has a strange green hue, and when diluted to 40% gets very cloudy. - Probably too much oil from the citrus skin?

Cool! Man I miss playing around with gin. I need to make some more neutral. Basically if it louches there are more oils dissolved in the alcohol at high proof than can be supported at low proof, so they precipitate out. You can add a bit of neutral to it and they'll dissolve right back in.

As far as the greenish hue goes.... you mean after it is distilled? If its after, I'm pretty sure you must have puked the still. colour shouldn't distill over. maybe there was something in your condenser?

I just finished my first run of gin today, I stilled 50 liters of birdwatchers down to 3.5 liters of neutral. Then I detuned my essencia still, ripped out the packing and made a tube out of stainless mesh which I inserted in place of the packing, after loading it with my basic botanical mix (juniper, coriander seed, lemon zest, orange zest, star anise, nutmeg and cinnamon) I ran it through and ended up with a very respectacble drink. I am amazed at the complexity of flavours carried through, and After testing with an equal measure of tonic and a slice of lemon, (even after a couple of hours in the demijohn) it is quite drinkable. and while all my other efforts to date are aging away on the shelf, this has the ability of getting into a glass sometime in the not so distant future. And the best part about gin experimentation is the endless length of the spice aisle in the supermarket. I think that Gin is a spirit that the novice distiller should easilly eclipse the efforts of commercial distilleries, due simply to the fact that the receipe is so open to personal preferances. What a hobby...

Slow & Steady wrote:It took me a long time to work out this recipe, I was trying to do the Bombay gin head thing with a tilt towards Tangeray. Some of the problems I encountered may have had to do with the quality of some of my botanicals and the distilation techniques I was using had to change. The quality of the alcohol needs to be your FINEST. I like the distilled maceration flavor better than my gin head flavor. This recipe favors the upfront juniper of Tangeray while subtle citrus and warming herbs take the edge off the gin... I don't like being hit in the face by a pine bough any more than the next guy, but a walk in a pine forest on a warm spring day, well that is what I'm looking for. This will produce a sipping quality gin, but it can stand up to a bit of tonic or vermouth as well...

Macerate at least 24 hours but not more than 48 hours
1 gallon of the finest aged neutral you can produce at about 75% ABV
7 oz - Juniper berries (crushed)
2 oz - Coriander (crushed)
1 tsp - bitter orange peel (minced)
1 tsp - dried licorice root (little bits and pieces)
1 - whole Star Anise (crushed)
1/2 tsp - Grain of Paradise
1" from a cinnamon stick
zest 1/2 of a sweet orange
zest of 1 lemon
zest of 2 limes
1 small clove
4 fresh leaves from a Rosemary plant.

After half the maceration time has elapsed add 1/2 gallon of pure water.

When maceration time is over distill in a pot still, no scrubbers of any kind, as they knock down flavor profiles, and catch 100% of the distillate. No cuts are necessary as the quality of the neutral you have used is beyond reproach. Run the distillate down to 10% ABV or 99 degrees C. Some of the warm mouth feel crosses over at 98 to 99 degrees so do not shut down to early or your gin will lack a certain quality that comes from the coriander, be careful not to go to far and burn the maceration on the bottom of the still as it is a bitch to remove. I have burned it twice... yes I realize... I'm a slow learner.

The distillate is likely to be a flavor concentrate (unless you like your gin really strong), I add aged neutral to the distillate until I get a flavor profile that matches my taste. I do not water it down less than 141 proof as I like the way a gin and tonic turns out at the higher proof.

S&S

looks good and worth a try

not sure on your oz measurement

here 1 oz is 28.375 grams ( 1 pound 454g , 16 oz to the pound)

can you please confirm for us metric folk

Slow & Steady wrote:It took me a long time to work out this recipe, I was trying to do the Bombay gin head thing with a tilt towards Tangeray. Some of the problems I encountered may have had to do with the quality of some of my botanicals and the distilation techniques I was using had to change. The quality of the alcohol needs to be your FINEST. I like the distilled maceration flavor better than my gin head flavor. This recipe favors the upfront juniper of Tangeray while subtle citrus and warming herbs take the edge off the gin... I don't like being hit in the face by a pine bough any more than the next guy, but a walk in a pine forest on a warm spring day, well that is what I'm looking for. This will produce a sipping quality gin, but it can stand up to a bit of tonic or vermouth as well...

Macerate at least 24 hours but not more than 48 hours
1 gallon of the finest aged neutral you can produce at about 75% ABV
7 oz - Juniper berries (crushed)
2 oz - Coriander (crushed)
1 tsp - bitter orange peel (minced)
1 tsp - dried licorice root (little bits and pieces)
1 - whole Star Anise (crushed)
1/2 tsp - Grain of Paradise
1" from a cinnamon stick
zest 1/2 of a sweet orange
zest of 1 lemon
zest of 2 limes
1 small clove
4 fresh leaves from a Rosemary plant.

After half the maceration time has elapsed add 1/2 gallon of pure water.

When maceration time is over distill in a pot still, no scrubbers of any kind, as they knock down flavor profiles, and catch 100% of the distillate. No cuts are necessary as the quality of the neutral you have used is beyond reproach. Run the distillate down to 10% ABV or 99 degrees C. Some of the warm mouth feel crosses over at 98 to 99 degrees so do not shut down to early or your gin will lack a certain quality that comes from the coriander, be careful not to go to far and burn the maceration on the bottom of the still as it is a bitch to remove. I have burned it twice... yes I realize... I'm a slow learner.

The distillate is likely to be a flavor concentrate (unless you like your gin really strong), I add aged neutral to the distillate until I get a flavor profile that matches my taste. I do not water it down less than 141 proof as I like the way a gin and tonic turns out at the higher proof.

S&S

Slow and Steady ,

why do we need to redistill the macerated spirit

what do we gain

what do we lose ,

we take out the scrubbers so as not to knock down the profiles etc etc

why not just filter

three main reasons, clarity, astringency and bitterness.

clarity sounds OK

I assume the astringency and bitterness would go into the water phase

thanks

ps it's good when somebody over the ditch can help

Sorry for the delay in my responce. Rod it is just as Kiwistiller sez. The distilation gives an essence flavor without all the crud flavors coming across.

S&S

Thanks to bgrizzle for the link to BulkFoods. There is a section on spices and herbs. Looks like they have some of the gin botanicals.

BulkFoods

Hello all,

Wondering what you all do for still cleaning run after running Gins...A juniper flavoured bourbon (next run) does not really appeal that much.

Plain steam run suffice?

Also any one found a source (Local for me is Aussie) for

Cubeb berries
and
Grains of paradise


cheers
dave

Holy shit so I was running a gin today, from clean neutral, and when I hit 55% the stuff starts coming off the worm piss-yellow. No puking or anything like that, heat was down very very low. The yellow faded somewhat as the run progressed, but stayed right through to slow drips under 20%.

Thoughts, ideas? Never seen anything like this before. Normally I'd expect to start seeing pale white milkyness in a gin run around maybe 40% or lower, but I've never seen coloured liquid like this straight off the condenser. It's a clear yellow as well. Just weird.

The gin, by the way, smells awesome.

Bloke,
You clearly know what your doing so no point going over the basics.

I had an issue early winter kinda same...stored a leibig that was still wet and cold got a mildew in the what i could see down the inner tube. it was kinda initially greenish on a run some 3 weeks down the track.
btw stuff turned nasty after airing and 2 weeks down the track so threw it.

learnt my lesson there...

only other thought...long shot ...any signifcant ingredient or supply change..but in that qty i doubt it could be the botanicals.

cheers
dave

I think I wrote this elsewhere, but for continuity I'll repeat my results of playing around with the yellow gin, and share the botanicals blend.

The yellow distilate did not precipitate or stratify when chilled in the freezer to -10C, nor did it clear when mixed with a sample of higher proof from earlier in the run. The clear, higher proof parts of the run didn't precipitate anything unusual (i.e. coloured) when watered down to similar or lower ABVs, but rather had the expected louche when diluted and chilled - cloudy with a faint blue blush.

I couldn't repeat the yellow distillate by running some feints off at similar ABVS. I've checked the equipment and botanicals for unexpected stuff, and couldn't find anything.

This satisfied me that the 'yellow' was contatined within the later bottles of the run, and I simply cut them out. I have no desire to experiment with consuming strange distillates. The gin suffered a little in complexity by losing the tails early, but as it was a 'top heavy' sort of gin (those of you who have tasted the flavours coming off in succession during a gin run will know what I mean when you see the botanicals), the damage wasn't too bad, and I actually got some pretty good reviews from it. I'll certainly be repeating (with tweaks, of course) this blend, and watching closely to see if I get yellowed again

Botanicals:

• 100g juniper (wasn't very fresh, so upped it from my normal recipes)
• 2 heaped teaspoons of corriander seed
• 1 heaped teaspoon of oris root
• 1/2 teaspoon of dill tips
• 5 black peppercorns
• 1 green cardamon pos
• 1/4 teaspoon caraway seeds
• 1.5cm x 1cm of cinnimon bark (the thick stuff, not the quills)
• 1 teaspoon nepita petals
• 1/2 teaspoon of rosmary petals (probably equal to a leaf or two if not in flower)
• 1 sweet basil leaf (will use lemon basil next time)
• 1 lemon balm leaf (probably won't repeat that one)

I used 10 litres of fruit based neutral, mainly apple and persimmon.

This botanicals blend, with everything cut below 55% (due to yellow ) gets a nice louche on it when chilled down in the freezer, even though I've left it bottled at 45%. I'd hazzard that the amount of botanicals used would be good for a strong outcome on a 12 to 14 litre charge if the tails were included , which of course they weren't for me.

Cheers guys
Kiwi

I started a sugar wash a few days ago with the express purpose of gin. Hopefully it'll come out great. I"ll be sure to post my results!

GM