quadruple condenser design

Thorin · Post by **Thorin** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:36 pm

I dont know if i can... i'm lousy at presenting my "technical" plans so they are possible to understand for anyone but myself

weel, here goes:

Im gonna use a 30l ss boiler with a 2000W acid-tolerant element.
the column wil be about 60 CM long and 10 CM in diameter, it will be openable on the top, for cleaning and such.

from the top, there will go a tube a further 40 cm, wich the condensors are conected in series to (so the vapors have to go through all of them).
(check my drawing in the first page)
there will go an reflux pipe from each collector (the big pieze at the bottom of the condensors) and an output-valve on each of them.
to regulate the reflux, i regulate the output valve. when output is 0% there is a 100% reflux FROM THAT CONDENSOR, and so on.

i plan to add valves to the water flow in each condensor too, so i can adjust what condenses in each condenser (this is my feeble attempt to make it easier to split the different compounds in the wash into different collectors).

i am pretty sure that the fusil oils, with higher boiling temp will condens first, mainly in the first condensor. the ethanol, wich boils at 78,3* can be collecter in second or third condenser, and the heads in the 3/4 condesor(s).... dunno if this will work as i intend, but as i said, its just a feeble attempt...

one thing i am SURE will work, is making a good drinkable spirit with this design....

I hope this atleast answers SOME of your questions to my design.
i am not trying to keep it a secret, and will ofc post pictures of the still both finished and under construction, so you can see what i mean more clearly....

Thorin...

decoy · Post by **decoy** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:45 am

i still think you should build a simple packed column still first...

what you will find with a pot still with a reflux column on top is that when you first start the still and when it first boils is when most of the methanol will work its way to the top of the column first.. this is called the heads.

the liquid will continue to boil and stay at the 79-82c untill the ethanol is boiled out of the wash. at which point you start geting the fusils as the temperature rises to 100c

all of this happens in the actual pot not the reflux column or the condensor..

the purification or spliting of ethanol and water hapens in the column..

it would be nice if there were a second point at the condenser that this can be controled but hey give it a try and we will se what happens ..

junkyard dawg · Post by **junkyard dawg** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:48 am

I don't understand the need for more than one condensor. If they are in series then only one is going to do anything. Can you explain the theory behind using 4?

Thorin · Post by **Thorin** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:16 am

well, u have my "splitting" idea, wich i dont have to much faith in right now, and there is security (less chance that i can overworks my condensing kapability), and the fact that i like symmetri

well... i'll try it anyways, since i get the materials so cheap...
it is possible we only get three condensors, depends on how easy it is to weld it... (none of u really wanna solder, and we get welding materials for free)

Hillbilly Rebel · Post by **Hillbilly Rebel** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:38 pm

Thorin,

I'm sure that the negative comments you have read here are meant in good faith to be of help to you by keeping you from repeating mistakes that have already been tried and made, or at least by giving you the benefit of their knowledge and experience by making an educated guess as to the probability of success of your ideas.

If you have an idea that you want to try, then do it. I don't care what anyone says, as long as it isn't endangering someone, try it. As long as it is not dangerous, then its not a matter of right or wrong, its a matter of what works or what works even better. If you fail, then you can start over or try something else. More than likely what you learn in trying will be worth the effort. Just remember, the biggest drawback is that mistakes can be expensive, time consuming and frustrating. The true tragedy would be if in failing to achieve the results you seek, you become disheartened and quit altogether.

For me, IMHO, the question that I have for you on your way to building the better mouse trap is how will you know when you get there? It seems to me that you have to have something to compare it to that will let you know if it is really any better than the old mousetrap. Why not start out with a simple pot still and condenser then work at that level to perfect your basic skills first. That way, when you have mastered the art of distillation at that level, then when you experiment with your new ideas, (be it a quadruple condensor or whatever), you will know what you can do with the old pot still and you will have something to use for comparison to see how well your new ideas performs.

Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:56 pm

Your design won't work.

The earth is flat and is the center of the universe.

Well, I gotta go. I'm late for my bloodletting.

Thorin · Post by **Thorin** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:56 pm

well... as i can see that anyone here has tried making such a design before, how can anyone be so sure it wont work at all?

and its not necesarily a improvement, i dont think that... i just want to make something that is my own and unique, and i dont feel i can acheive that by using one of the proven designs....

if nothing else that i thought of works with this design, it will atleast produce spirits, and i dont think it will do any worse than many other designs...

Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:08 am

I'm sorry. I was being sarcastic about other posters discuraging comments. I'm sure everyone means well. I shouldn't have even posted that last one. I thought it was funny up untill I hit the send button.

It seems that even if all you end up making is a work of art that is functional as a still, you have met your goal. Maybe you will discover something interesting or new. Maybe not. Why not give it a go. If you have a boiler, a column, and a condencer, you will be able to get booze out of it.

Hillbilly Rebel · Post by **Hillbilly Rebel** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:43 am

LHCB, I thought it was funny and understood what you were saying.

Thorin · Post by **Thorin** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:25 am

dont worry, i dont take things bad easily, and were pretty much sure you were not meaning to be "nasty"

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:26 am

Hi Thorin very early in this thread there was a suggestion that you may be considering building a closed system. Just incase it has not already been mentioned….

Seriously DO NOT BUILD A CLOSED SYSTEM it will EXPLODE!!!

Do not build a partially closed system it may work initially but if anything goes wrong it will EXPLODE!!!

Liquid management reflux heads are totally open with no pressure at the top. The main condenser simply condenses everything that the boiler can throw at it so the top can be left wide open to the atmosphere.

If you do not understand this please for your own safety do some more research before building anything.

My own still has a 2 inch opening at the top and gets 96-97% alc/vol.

On its own your condenser design looks very cool and could feasibly be used (open to the atmosphere) as your only condenser and would still be a very unique design. If you use that on top of say a 1.2m - 1.5m high 2 inch diameter coulomb that is packed with copper scrubbers or structured copper packing (not marbles) then you would have a unique and very capable still.

You could also possibly design your still with three or four condenser stages but initially only build it with just the one condenser. Then run it like that with one condenser until you get the hang of it. Then later on add the additional condensers, complexity and symmetry one stage at a time if you see the need. You may find after running it for some time with only one condenser that a good quality digital thermometer is of more value than the extra condensers and complexity. Time will tell.

Another idea for an original design (without the risk of reducing the stills function) would be to use one standard condenser on one standard tall coulomb but make the coulomb in four or so sections. It could then be broken down so that all the sections fit neatly in the boiler for storage. I don’t think I’ve seen anybodies still that can do that. Well it’s just an idea.

If you really want to go a step beyond average then perhaps you should also consider some research into how a Vapor Management (VM) head works. Fewer people are using them because the designs are relatively new in home distilling so virtually any VM still will be unique with or without any fancy condensers. I also personally find them easier to run and they produce an exceptional showoff quality product on the right coulomb.

Back to one of your first questions on condensers and sizes. The Book “The Complete Distiller” by Nixon & McCaw from memory had some good practical info on that subject.

Hope we can get to see more of your design ideas as they develop.

Cheers for now and stay safe.

Thorin · Post by **Thorin** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:33 am

yeah, i have allready thought of the "closed system" as stupidly dangerous, though it would be possible with security, but man... if the pressure release valves were to fail....

so i'm going to build it almost like you said.. just with shorter, wider column.. like 3-4" wide and about 1m high...

thoght about making a bubble-plate column too, but i think ill make the simpler one first.... and anyways, i'll make a pot first, just because some problems occured with getting the ss-tubing for the condensor. so itl be atleast a month until i can build this plan

canadianmoonshiner · Post by **canadianmoonshiner** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:08 pm

Longhairedcountryboy wrote:Your design won't work.

The earth is flat and is the center of the universe.

Well, I gotta go. I'm late for my bloodletting.

For most of us, sharing our ideas & thoughts on this topic can only be done on this forum. Lets face it, our spouses do not want to hear the details of our last batch of rum. They'll notice changes to your design & say things like "you're a genius" & "mad scientist". But they don't care about the details. Let's play nice guys & (as my mother used to say) if you don't have something nice to say don't say anything at all.

As far as trying new designs, go for it. True, this art has been refined over 100's of years but with the internet & other new technologies available today & the ever-increasing volume of discussion on this topic could lead to some major breakthroughs no one had even thought of.

Einstein
Edison
Wright Bros
Neil Armstrong (JFK)
Bill Gates