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Re: legal threat from Jack Daniels
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:09 pm
by Uncle Jesse
I modified the text to read:
Here is one recipe for Tennessee-Style whiskey. With practice, you will be able to produce a high quality product comparable to the better Tennessee-style whiskeys on the market, such as George Dickel.
Re: legal threat from Jack Daniels
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:12 pm
by Bayou-Ruler
Re: legal threat from Jack Daniels
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:16 pm
by Uncle Jesse
I like George Dickel!
Re: legal threat from Jack Daniels
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:25 pm
by LWTCS
Uncle Jesse wrote:I like George Dickel!
Re: legal threat from Jack Daniels
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:48 pm
by Gr8brewer
I've seen this kind of letter before. Back in 95 a brewery I worked for in Boston received a letter from the city of Munich stating that we could not us the Name Munich to describe Munich Lager. They said we were implying that it was brewed in Munich. I don't think we changed the name either and i think the letter got circular filed as well.
As far as the JD formula goes is there really anyone out there who got into distilling because they wanted to make JD. I cant imagine there are too many.
Re: legal threat from Jack Daniels
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:17 pm
by Coon-ass
Gr8brewer wrote:I've seen this kind of letter before. Back in 95 a brewery I worked for in Boston received a letter from the city of Munich stating that we could not us the Name Munich to describe Munich Lager. They said we were implying that it was brewed in Munich. I don't think we changed the name either and i think the letter got circular filed as well.
As far as the JD formula goes is there really anyone out there who got into distilling because they wanted to make JD. I cant imagine there are too many.
I wanted to make Evan Willams
Re: legal threat from Jack Daniels
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:51 pm
by Uncle Jesse
I've tried quite a few products from JD and all of them give me a headache after a shot or two. I've had the "next day" headache from Evan Williams but I like it too. I remember finding a fifth of George Dickel for $14 or something and it was very drinkable.
Re: legal threat from Jack Daniels
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:58 pm
by King Of Hearts
Coon-ass wrote:Gr8brewer wrote:I've seen this kind of letter before. Back in 95 a brewery I worked for in Boston received a letter from the city of Munich stating that we could not us the Name Munich to describe Munich Lager. They said we were implying that it was brewed in Munich. I don't think we changed the name either and i think the letter got circular filed as well.
As far as the JD formula goes is there really anyone out there who got into distilling because they wanted to make JD. I cant imagine there are too many.
I wanted to make Evan Willams
Elmer T Lee to tells you how they make Buffalo Trace on their website.
http://www.buffalotrace.com/elmer.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Re: legal threat from Jack Daniels
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:00 pm
by cob
Uncle Jesse wrote:I like George Dickel!
+1
i have suffered the fickle finger of dickel....seem to remember some gallons of mint julip...and something about wrestling a black bear cub.
hope the changes settle their hackles back down, and put their wrath on some other track. cob
Re: legal threat from Jack Daniels
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:42 am
by Kentucky shinner
Coon-ass wrote:Gr8brewer wrote:I've seen this kind of letter before. Back in 95 a brewery I worked for in Boston received a letter from the city of Munich stating that we could not us the Name Munich to describe Munich Lager. They said we were implying that it was brewed in Munich. I don't think we changed the name either and i think the letter got circular filed as well.
As far as the JD formula goes is there really anyone out there who got into distilling because they wanted to make JD. I cant imagine there are too many.
I wanted to make Evan Willams
I wanted to make Uncle Robs Kentucky Bourbon ( All of my Nephews and nieces call be Uncle Rob
. Why that ever got started I dont know but it is not the name I go buy) I like making my own likker, don't even try to copy another brand..
Re: legal threat from Jack Daniels
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:02 am
by Kentucky shinner
Kentucky shinner wrote:Coon-ass wrote:Gr8brewer wrote:I've seen this kind of letter before. Back in 95 a brewery I worked for in Boston received a letter from the city of Munich stating that we could not us the Name Munich to describe Munich Lager. They said we were implying that it was brewed in Munich. I don't think we changed the name either and i think the letter got circular filed as well.
As far as the JD formula goes is there really anyone out there who got into distilling because they wanted to make JD. I cant imagine there are too many.
I wanted to make Evan Willams
I wanted to make Uncle Robs Kentucky Bourbon ( All of my Nephews and nieces call me Uncle Rob
. Why that ever got started I dont know but it is not the name I go buy) I like making my own likker, don't even try to copy another brand..
Re: legal threat from Jack Daniels
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:03 am
by father william
IANAL, but I can understand why the JD people are a bit touchy about this stuff. It's not so much about putting out a copycat formula that is or isn't accurate is a problem. It's more about property rights.
For example, when a copyrighted word like 'Xerox' becomes commonly used to describe a generic process ("Hey Fred, go Xerox 50 copies of this"), copyright protection is lessened for the holder. If you're familiar with the real estate concept of adverse possession, failure to assert property rights results in loss of property rights. There are other examples.
If y'all want to get in a pissing contest with them, go ahead, but my advice would be to retreat gracefully and move on. The board is a lot more important than one knock-off recipe. Frankly, I think it's pretty cool they know we're out here, trying to make better product than they do.
Just my $0.02.
Re: legal threat from Jack Daniels
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:26 am
by King Of Hearts
Uncle Jesse wrote:I've tried quite a few products from JD and all of them give me a headache after a shot or two. I've had the "next day" headache from Evan Williams but I like it too. I remember finding a fifth of George Dickel for $14 or something and it was very drinkable.
Check this out, yer right UJ.
http://tastings.com/search_spirits.lass ... oreForSort" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Re: legal threat from Jack Daniels
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:28 am
by Husker
The references claiming to be able to replicate a trademarked product have been scrubbed.
The changes were to a couple java-script menu files, and a couple htm pages. These have been sent to Dave. He will have to install them, but I figure that will happen shortly. The 'static' menu has been fixed for a while, all that was left was the dynamic java-script menu.
I have not read the pdf request in depth, but I believe this is all they were wanting. That claim to it being 'their' secret recipe to that commercial product has been removed. It is now just listed as Tennessee Style Whiskey.
H.
Re: legal threat from Jack Daniels
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:15 am
by ScottishBoy
Their claim was that there were several mistakes and omissions...so I'm thinking we left out the part where they keep the heads and the tails and pee in the maple charcoal before they "mellow" it...
Oh wait...I was advocating for pro social behavior...nevermind.
Re: legal threat from Jack Daniels
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:09 pm
by rad14701
In all honesty, it isn't a list of ingredients that makes a product as the recipe is only one piece of the puzzle... Now, if the entire process had been posted, fairly close to the steps they take, then they would have more of a case... But it's still better to not tempt fate and just remove what little they find threatening...
Re: legal threat from Jack Daniels
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:19 pm
by SuburbanStiller
http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl122.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Copyright law does not protect recipes that are mere listings of ingredients. Nor does it protect other mere listings of ingredients such as those found in formulas, compounds, or prescriptions. Copyright protection may, however, extend to substantial literary expression—a description, explanation, or illustration, for example—that accompanies a recipe or formula or to a combination of recipes, as in a cookbook.
I would be interested to know if Mr. Jack Daniels' copyrighted his formula. If so, it would be in the public domain by now.
As an aside, our poor Copyright Office gets enough inquiries to answer this question in its FAQ:
How do I protect my sighting of Elvis?
http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-protect.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Re: legal threat from Jack Daniels
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:36 pm
by Husker
I do not think copyright has anything to do with it. Trademark is the issue.
We had "Jack Daniel Black label" as the recipe. The recipe is not the problem. It is CALLING it the recipe for a trademarked product.
H.
Re: legal threat from Jack Daniels
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:00 pm
by King Of Hearts
I don't think recipes are or can be copyrighted. You sort of let the cat out of the bag if you do. Names and labels are. KFC allegedly keeps their recipe in a vault, and only a few people ever seen it.
Re: legal threat from Jack Daniels
Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:24 pm
by Mr.Spooky
Re: legal threat from Jack Daniels
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:28 am
by father william
I don't think recipes are or can be copyrighted. You sort of let the cat out of the bag if you do. Names and labels are. KFC allegedly keeps their recipe in a vault, and only a few people ever seen it.
Trade secrets can be kept indefinitely if they are indeed kept secret. KFC is one example, the formula for Coca Cola is another. They abound in the booze world, the recipe for Chartreuse is one example.
Patents are awarded for disclosure, not for invention. It's a common misconception.
Copyright in the US has been extended far beyond any reasonable lifespan due to the lobbying of large corporations like Disney. Mickey Mouse should have entered the public domain years ago but probably never will.
Re: legal threat from Jack Daniels
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:41 pm
by Husker
This issue should be put to bed now. There is no reference to "this is the JD Black Label Recipe", or flavoring technique, etc, anywhere on the site. The recipes are still there, they simply are not named JD like they were before, and the shortcuts both on the static and dynamic menus, and page 'hyperlink' names, do not reference JD.
This was their problem. It has been addressed while the contents of the site have been preserved.
Hopefully, this will be the last on this issue.
H.
