NChooch's Carolina Bourbon

[SuburbanStiller]

Yeast was Red Star Champagne, two packages, on both of these experiments

It is a small charge, I was thinking that while carrying my pot out to the shed. That corn holds on to the juice and I get bored squeezing out every last drop. Only gave up about 3.5 gal from a 6 gal mash. My sugar washes are a full 6 gallons.

I only did the single run in my long pipe pot. With a sugar wash, it will start out 65% abv and slowly drop from there to 20% when tails come on like a ton of bricks and I shut down.

The sugar washes I have put thru my long pipe pot have tasted wonderful after a single run. Some I sip white, some I am experimenting with oaking and they are coming along nicely after just a few weeks. I have to say, I am not confident that this nasty stuff could be cleaned up simply on a second run. I was just scrubbing up after I tossed this week's mess, and I caught just a tiny whiff from an empty mason jar as I was sitting it in the dishwasher. My eyes watered and I threw up in my mouth a little. The stuff I'm making over here is truly repulsive. But, I am still curious, and there was that hint of something that could be something in the corn I tasted behind the rot.

[Rargh]

are you sanitising your fermenter and anything that touches the wash once its cooled properly? Try not to take peeks whilst the ferment is going on, it can allow nasty bacteria in.

[rubber duck]

I really don't think it's a infection that's taken over the mash. It could be a catastrophic infection but I've only had it happen a couple of times. I Don't know what your ph is but if you think it's a infection you can try dropping the ph to 4 or so after mashing. You can also get a one quart yeast starter going a day before your going to pitch it. This will give you a lager does of yeast and get you a head start on the bacteria. Your fermenting a filthy pig of a wash so giving it a big yeast pitch can help.

I think the problem is your expecting to get UJSM results from a 3.5 gallon charge of 6%. That's like 1.5 quarts of 100 proof if you ring every drop out of it. It's hard to make good cuts on that. This isn't a sugar head wash, your going to have to do 3 or 4 striping runs on charges that small and then do a spirit run.

Keep at it your getting there, this run was better then the last right? Pretty soon it's going to come together.

RD

[SuburbanStiller]

Well I'm a dummy. I did all the cooking and mashing in my 8 gal stainless pot, then pitched yeast and just left it in there with the lid on. I didn't pour it into one of my fermenter buckets with an airlock. Why? I don't know.

It didn't occur to me until just now that's where I flubbed it. That's gotta be why the whole thing went sour. Next time I'll stick it under an airlock.

[Fastill]

Suburban stiller,

I do my allgrain ferments in open fermenters, only had infections in the first few and they still recovered once the yeast kicked in full tilt. Now that I have my method down I don't seem to have any infections unless I let it sit after fermentation is complete.
I run my allgrain through a reflux still at 85-90% and it has tons of corn flavor, almost overpowering. I think maybe you should try double or tripple distilling low wines to see if the flavor improves, it is definately not a sugarhead wash and the flavor is different but once aged on toasted and charred oak it can't be beat. Even on the early infected washes they distilled out with a surprisingly good flavor, very unique and tasty whiskeys.

[Bull Rider]

I use large food grade totes (20 gallon capacity each) for fermenting. The lids are not tight, but not loose either. I've done the last twenty or so mashes this way.

I've had one all grain rolled barley mash that had the puke smell. It smelled like puke in the fermenter, it smelled like puke when I ran the strip run, and smelled like puke in the low wines. I had a hard time getting the mash to convert to sugar, so I left it in the mash tun for a couple of days. That's when the puke smell developed.

I mixed the low wines in with some other stripped low wines, and the final product has no off smells or flavors.

I'm still banging away at the elusive All Grain Whiskey. I need to come up with a system, I've never ran two all grain mashes the same way twice, so I spend too much time dorking around.

I'm waiting for Rubber Duck to have a "Distilling Retreat' for the All Grain challenged. I could be to his place in a days drive.

Bull.

[SuburbanStiller]

I just can't do it. I can't keep the stomach churning, the Damned, the wretched, and expect it to turn drinkable. No matter how many times I plan to run it. I want my product to be palatable the whole way thru. I taste the mash / wash before I cook it off. I taste it white. I've been tasting the bit that I have on oak as it ages. And the stuff I keep is all decent.

I just don't have the faith to take my crap first run and process it into a drink I'd serve to friends and family. I won't. I'll keep after this recipe until I get it figured out. Next time I will be sure to put under a proper airlock. And if that doesn't fix it then I'll try something else. Then something else. Then something else after that.

I will keep trying until my cold dead fingers can no longer turn a propane valve or cap a bottle. This is my white whale. Call me Ishmael.

[rubber duck]

Well you have the right attitude. Never give up.

I do all my ferments with a loose lid, I don't think a air lock is the problem.

Just keep saving your puke, when you have enough puke re run it and see if it cleans up.

[Rargh]

Just keep saving your puke, when you have enough puke re run it and see if it cleans up.

LOL

For what its worth
I ave now stripped all my wash, just sorting out an evening to do the spirit run.
My strip actually tasted ok. You know you wouldnt really drink it but its certainly not making me puke. In fact a sneaky half a shot right in the middle of the hearts was nice

Will let you know how the spirit run goes.

[blind drunk]

I will keep trying until my cold dead fingers can no longer turn a propane valve or cap a bottle. This is my white whale. Call me Ishmael.

Laughing out loud!

Admirable tenacity!

bd

[rubber duck]

I will keep trying until my cold dead fingers can no longer turn a propane valve or cap a bottle. This is my white whale. Call me Ishmael.

Laughing out loud!

Admirable tenacity!

bd

That's the way things get done. NEVER GIVE UP.

[rtalbigr]

SS - I'm inclined to agree w/ RD, I think you're expecting grains to be like a sugar wash. I can't relate exactly because I don't do sugar washes.

Grains can be a real pain. First time I did corn I had a one H*** of a mess!!! I learned the hard way that ya really need to pay attention to what your doing and pay attention to temps. What I do is monitor the temps in several places because the mash is going to cool from the outside in, and this stuff is really hard to stir. I've been thinking hard about rigging a stirer and have been thinking how I could use an electric ice cream maker (just rolling it over in my mind rt now).

Anyway, what I do is when the temp on top of my mash drops to 155F I sprinkle a little alpha amylase (1 teaspoon) on top and let is sit for a while. Then as the temp in the body of the mash cools I gradually stir deeper until the mash loosens up and I can stir the entire mash real well and do a temp check. If the temp is then below 155F I'll dump in my malted barley and stir it in real well. The mash really takes off then. I use a couple of brew belts to help hold the temps and let it sit over night. The next morning I'll seperate the grain off ( I don't really like to ferment on the grain) and really squeeze the strainer bag to get every drop of liquid. Sometimes I run some rinse water back through the grain and collect it, but not always. Then I add 1 teaspoon of gluco and pitch my yeast. I use Crosby & Baker distillers yeast and it works real well. It will work off usually in 4 days. I'll then put it in a glass carboy and let it settle for a few days before I rack and distill.

Rt now I've got 2L in an oak barrel and three qt mason jars w/charred oak strips aging. Haven't decided how long I'll age, but at last taste it was tasting pretty good and I'm thinking that the stuff needs to be consumed really bad!!! I'm fixin' to do 35 gal of wash over the next month, 63% corn, 21% rye, 16% barley w/ 5# inverted sugar/6 gal water.

I guess I'm sort of a traditionalist. I think grain and all copper is the only way to go.

Big R

[NcHooch]

I've read recently, that it's common for malted barley to have Lactobacillus (lactic acid bacteria) on it, and it varies quite a bit in different locations it's produced. If I'm not mistaken, the lactic acid bacteria does typically smell like puke.

When you brew beer, you don't hafta worry about it since you'll boil the wort after the mash, but the bourbon mash would be prone to a lactic acid bacteria since you just mash, cool and ferment.

As long as you're using a sanitizer like beer-brite or somethin similar on everything that's touching the mash after you boil the corn, and you pitch a good healthy yeast, you should usually be OK. If you still get that smell, I'd try putting the heat back to it AFTER the mashing session (and before the ferment) and bring it up to at least 180 to kill off the bacteria. Sadly that might not work out for ya if your batch is 30 gallons

My mashes have never smelled like that...maybe it's the 6-row grain that I use. They usually smell like beer after the ferment.

Hope that helps,
NChooch

[NcHooch]

So a few of yall were runnin this recipe ...is it still aging on oak?
.... have yall been sampling it? ...how do ya like it?

NChooch

[WeeStiller]

Yeast was Red Star Champagne, two packages, on both of these experiments

It is a small charge, I was thinking that while carrying my pot out to the shed. That corn holds on to the juice and I get bored squeezing out every last drop. Only gave up about 3.5 gal from a 6 gal mash. My sugar washes are a full 6 gallons.

I only did the single run in my long pipe pot. With a sugar wash, it will start out 65% abv and slowly drop from there to 20% when tails come on like a ton of bricks and I shut down.

The sugar washes I have put thru my long pipe pot have tasted wonderful after a single run. Some I sip white, some I am experimenting with oaking and they are coming along nicely after just a few weeks. I have to say, I am not confident that this nasty stuff could be cleaned up simply on a second run. I was just scrubbing up after I tossed this week's mess, and I caught just a tiny whiff from an empty mason jar as I was sitting it in the dishwasher. My eyes watered and I threw up in my mouth a little. The stuff I'm making over here is truly repulsive. But, I am still curious, and there was that hint of something that could be something in the corn I tasted behind the rot.

I had something similar when I used maizena (fine corn flour for thickening sauces) which contained sulfite, as I found out too late. A terrible acrid pungent eyewatering nose stinging smell in the foreshots and heads. I recognized it to be sulfite because I use that to clean my equipment. A second run, tight cuts and carbon filtering saved most of the run as a useful neutral spirit for making liqueurs. Can you verify that your ingredients did not contain any sulfite as a preservative?

[ozone39]

Kudos on the recipe NC!!! I ran a a batch through 7 weeks ago through the 'ol ponu. Been sitting in a 2 liter barrels since. Pulled a sample tonight and wow. Probably bottle up it up this week end....Thanks for the recipe NC...nicely done

[NcHooch]

'preciate the feedback Ozone, Hope you enjoy it as much as I do.
NChooch

[Rargh]

I done my second spirit run of this 3 days ago. I must say that this is the best thing white that I have made so far. Great recipe. I use 3.5kg malted barley and 6.5 kg flaked maize.

I have around 4.2 l sitting at 63% ABV. I am going to keep 500 ml white and put some nice charred oak in the rest. Will report on that in due course.

One thing/question I have around 3.3 l @ 30% that I didn't use in the blend (tails). I don't intend to make another batch any time soon as i have enough to keep me going. Do I understand correctly I can run this through the still again on its own and get something else drinkable?
I don't have a reflux still (perhaps I should build one )so I will be using my pot again.

Cheers

[Dnderhead]

you can.but 3L is not much to run.posably add these along with something else.
that would not have conflicting flavors.

[daremo18]

Hey fellas,

I'm real interested in making this recipe. I'm also REAL new. I've been reading around this site and this forum, which is filled with great info. I have failed fermenting a batch of corn I tried on my own (sounds like that is common). My question is this:

How much Yeast do I use in this recipe? I have turbo yeast that I got from the brew store (Yes I read posts on that too ).

Is this too naive a question? I am trying to read all I can and I understand the helping those who help themselves mentality, but I'd sure love to get a batch behind me!

Thanks for the good info,

Chris

[NcHooch]

Hey fellas,

I'm real interested in making this recipe. I'm also REAL new. I've been reading around this site and this forum, which is filled with great info. I have failed fermenting a batch of corn I tried on my own (sounds like that is common). My question is this:

How much Yeast do I use in this recipe? I have turbo yeast that I got from the brew store (Yes I read posts on that too ).

Is this too naive a question? I am trying to read all I can and I understand the helping those who help themselves mentality, but I'd sure love to get a batch behind me!

Thanks for the good info,

Chris

Chris,
the process goes like this:
cook corn (to release starch)
cool to mashing temp (150)
Add malted barley for mashing (contains enzymes that convert corn starch to sugar)
cool to 70-80 degrees
add yeast (a single sachet of ale yeast is OK) to ferment

If you just boil the corn and cool it down and toss in a load of yeast, you'll just end up with yeasty corn puddin'
There's some good reading in here: http://homedistiller.org/grain/wash-grain/mashing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow that should help make some sense of the instructions I posted on the first page of this thread.

I hope that helps,
NcHooch

[rubber duck]

Chris there's a lot more to this recipe then just the grain bill. This is more of an advanced project that you should study but trying this one right out of the gate is just stetting yourself up for failure. If your intent on doing it I'll help you out but I would suggest starting with the UJSM or deathwish recipes, that will get you some experience and then you can move on to this.

[daremo18]

Thanks for the help boys. I'm dead set on this for now, once it humbles me I might change direction...at the very least I"ll give you some funny and nostalgic stories to laugh at.

Have good weekends!

chris

[Texas Jim]

Chris there's a lot more to this recipe then just the grain bill. This is more of an advanced project that you should study but trying this one right out of the gate is just stetting yourself up for failure. If your intent on doing it I'll help you out but I would suggest starting with the UJSM or deathwish recipes, that will get you some experience and then you can move on to this.

The instructions seem very easy - where are the downfalls?

Also, if you have to run several batches to get enough wash to distill, how long can you store it in carboys?

[rubber duck]

Jim go try it and you will see what I'm talking about. It looks pretty easy and it is sorta, but not for a first timer.

You can store your striped low wines indefinitely, I've stored them for more then a year. Be careful with glass 5 gallons is a lot of booze if you drop it.

[blind drunk]

Why don't you try a half mash just see what comes up? Duck nailed it, it reads easy, but there's a lot of fumbling around at first and everything doesn't always fall into to place in the orderly way of the recipe. My first all grain was pretty funny to watch, but not so funny being there. Half mash just to get the hang of it, if you're really enthusiastic about it. Good luck.

[NcHooch]

Chris there's a lot more to this recipe then just the grain bill. This is more of an advanced project that you should study but trying this one right out of the gate is just stetting yourself up for failure. If your intent on doing it I'll help you out but I would suggest starting with the UJSM or deathwish recipes, that will get you some experience and then you can move on to this.

The instructions seem very easy - where are the downfalls?
Also, if you have to run several batches to get enough wash to distill, how long can you store it in carboys?

If you've ever brewed an all-grain beer before, it should go real smooth.
If you've ever watched your buddy brew an all-grain beer before, it should go fairly smooth.
... the downfalls would happen when you don't have all your gear lined up and ready for the the next steps ...or you try and take shortcuts in the process. Honestly, It just helps a lot to be familiar with what you're doing, why you're doing it, and what's happening next, and that just takes a little studying, and some experience.

NChooch
PS: you should run your wash as soon as it's done fermenting

[thepatchworkdoll]

Hi Nchooch you say you should run your wash as soon as its finished. Do you not let it clear first or how doi you remove all the trub thats present even after straining.
Regards
Patch

[NcHooch]

I strain out the grain when fermentation's complete (I use a 5 gal nylon mesh paint strainer) and fill the boiler with the wash, and run it dirty....I think it adds to the flavor.

NChooch

[Texas Jim]

I strain out the grain when fermentation's complete (I use a 5 gal nylon mesh paint strainer) and fill the boiler with the wash, and run it dirty....I think it adds to the flavor.

NChooch

Are you using propane or electric?