Flaked Grain handling?

[Jimbo]

Not as good as I'd hoped, 1048 this morning when I pitched the yeast. But the mess is pretty watery with 12.5 gallons liquid in there (water and backset). I think Ill change that part, its a bit thin, I calculated 1068 for 10 gallons with that grain bill. Ill see what I can strain/squeeze out next weekend, but I think a gallon less of water would better. For the rolled barley tho, good christ glue, need that much water.

That pretty much mirrors my best experience using cracked corn as well (1.040-1.050). I find getting over that increasingly difficult. But, I keep trying .

No haven't had templeton...they were always out. I've had Bulleit Rye. It wasn't too bad. But, did have a bit more spice/tannic note than the Sazerac. I've had other single barrel, etc...$$$ ryes...and thought they were all too sharp, headsy. I had a Rye that was gov bonded that was supposed to be good and also thought it was sharp. You just have to find the Sazerac. It's one of my favorites to keep around for sippin.

Pappy Van Winkles Rye is supposed to be superb also....but it's very pricey.

Thanks Usge, its nice to know my result was in the mix with the seasoned guys around here. Not sure what I could have done much differently, I dont have a pH meter but the backset and gypsum prolly put me pretty close to the pH sweetspot. My mash temp was rock on and only dropped a couple degrees in 2 hours with the quilt draped around it. The cracked corn has quite a bit of uncracked corn in it. So i guess I could grind it finer, but who the hell wants to dick with that. At $11 a bag, Ill just just throw more in next time and chalk it up to losses, not trying to squeeze another dime out of a fifth on a commercial level. The 2 row is a bit of a mystery, I bought a bag of Cargill 2 row and teh DP is not published, but the mash passes the iodine test with(out) flying colors

I stopped at the store on the way in to pick up a bottle of Sazarac. No got, they said it flies off the shelf when they get it in. They did have 1 bottle of Templeton left on the shelf. I grabbed it

Cheers, thanks for your inputs.

[rtalbigr]

That pretty much mirrors my best experience using cracked corn as well (1.040-1.050). I find getting over that increasingly difficult. But, I keep trying .

Feed grade cracked corn is pretty hard to get above 1.050. I think it's varieties are more geared to proteins than sugars/starches. The last I mashed I got an OG of 1.048, and that's the best I could do. So when I make bourbons I pretty much limit my corn to 51-60% and rely on my other ingredients to get the OG up.

I've wondered if taking the corn with some malted grain through the Beta Glucanase and Protease rests might help, ya know, break some of the proteins down and maybe get a few more sugars. I may experiment with that sometime.

Big R

[Jimbo]

I've wondered if taking the corn with some malted grain through the Beta Glucanase and Protease rests might help, ya know, break some of the proteins down and maybe get a few more sugars. I may experiment with that sometime.
Big R

I thought about that too, but that means stirring the goop from 120 degrees on up to boiling while the fire's on. Ugh! I like my tiger striped maple mash paddle, but not that much. I'm kinda lazy and let the water come to boil all by its lonesome, and then stir in the corn and bring it back to a boil stirring for a only a few minutes. I have thought about taking a spare motor and rigging a 5gal paint stirrer to it, to let electrons power the stirring fun instead of my arm, which might be busy lifting 12 oz of something.... Anyone done a mash stirrer on here yet?

[Usge]

That pretty much mirrors my best experience using cracked corn as well (1.040-1.050). I find getting over that increasingly difficult. But, I keep trying .

Feed grade cracked corn is pretty hard to get above 1.050. I think it's varieties are more geared to proteins than sugars/starches. The last I mashed I got an OG of 1.048, and that's the best I could do. So when I make bourbons I pretty much limit my corn to 51-60% and rely on my other ingredients to get the OG up.

I've wondered if taking the corn with some malted grain through the Beta Glucanase and Protease rests might help, ya know, break some of the proteins down and maybe get a few more sugars. I may experiment with that sometime.

Big R

Yep Big R. I think you are right. Most of those feed corn (cracked corn) bags have nutritional info on it and protein is one of the main things listed. Makes sense.

[GuyIncognito]

I generally dough-in at 120F (temp my tap comes out) and slow rise to boil with either ground malt of alpha amalyase, and I've not found to yield any extra gravity. I hit just about the same threshold everyone has been describing. I include the malt/enzyme to cut the viscosity and make it easier to stir, but if you can get the grains to a boil without them clumping into cement I don't think you are missing a ton by not doing rests. I've never done it a different way though, so maybe it DOES help but there is something else in my process which is constraining my OG to 1.050...

Sort of interesting to read about all the bourbons & ryes coming out now and try to unravel who/what they are actually made from. I guess lots of rye's (like bulliet & templeton & high west) are sourced from the giant industrial LDI/MPG plant which produces a 95% rye whiskey that the 'distilleries' then blend and bottle. I've had Sazerac and like it a shake more, but the mashbill I think is closer to 51% rye, 40% corn 10% barley which I imagine helps with some sweetness and smoothness.

[Jimbo]

I picked up a bottle of Templeton, it is made by LDI now, following Templetons recipe. And I compared it to Redemption Rye, also made by LDI. They are COMPLETELY different. Thankfully its clearly not all the same soup with different labels on it. Also Templeton is aged 5 years and the Redemption only 2. The Redemption Rye didnt do much for me. Its good but kinda plain, no depth to it. The Templeton on the other hand, holy shit, its really good. All sorts of flavors buried in there. I went back and forth with the Redemption and couldnt even believe they came from the same base grain. In the taste test of 6 below, now 7, Id put Templeton 2nd, below the Breuckelen Wheat and above the Lions Share (Koval) Dark Oat.

EDIT: Maybe third. Further testing is in order....

[Jimbo]

Ok I picked up a sack of Red Wheat malt. Any tips on all wheat malt AG? For this Im thinking just do it up like making beer, mash, sparge and ferment the wort. Ill mash at 148 with 2 quarts of backset and 2 tsp gypsum and shoot for a fairly high OG, maybe 1060. Sound ok? thanks!

[Barney Fife]

If it helps, I've hit the same OG ceiling as everyone else when using feed corn(cracked or whole). On a hunch, I washed and cooked some of the whole corn, took it to the table and buttered and salted it as usual, and it wasn't anything close to what we're used to eating. As mentioned, it's a variety that is specifically modified for high-protein/low sugar. It works, but we just can't expect a high gravity wort from it. Still makes a fine drink, as long as we don't beat ourselves up by trying to get more sugar from it, since it isn't there.

So on that note, I've taken to adding a couple pounds(in 5 gal. mashes) of corn sugar(sold at bulk food places, sometimes labeled as "dextrose") to bring the OG up. Haven't really noticed a difference in final flavor after stillin' it, other than getting a lot more alky from the run. Much, MUCH wider hearts cut than without the corn sugar(important if you're pot-stilling and like to keep some of the hearts from the first run, as I do).

I also run my cracked corn through the mill, at the same time as I grind the malt. I start grinding at the same time as I begin heating the water(electric; 4500 watts), and the temp alarm goes-off(180f) at about the same as I'm done grinding. I'll add the corn and some malt, let it sit about 30 minutes to thin, then take it up, slowly, to a boil to soften the corn, then leave it until the next day, where it'll be down to around 150/160(I have a very well insulated keggle), then toss-in the rest of the malt. In the end, I get about the same OG as y'all do, 'cept I don't sit around and stir so much. Color me lazy!

[rtalbigr]

Ok I picked up a sack of Red Wheat malt. Any tips on all wheat malt AG? For this Im thinking just do it up like making beer, mash, sparge and ferment the wort. Ill mash at 148 with 2 quarts of backset and 2 tsp gypsum and shoot for a fairly high OG, maybe 1060. Sound ok? thanks!

I've done a fair amount of wheat and really like it. I actually prefer my red wheat whiskey to my all barley and my regular Bourbons. My wheat bourbons are wonderful. I've never done an all malt red wheat but I have done an all wheat using wheat from the co-op. Wheat really does benefit from a step mash and I recommend doing it that way. The beta glucanase and protease rests not only give a better saccrification but breaking up the proteins really helps in controlling foaming when you strip the wash.

If it helps, I've hit the same OG ceiling as everyone else when using feed corn(cracked or whole). On a hunch, I washed and cooked some of the whole corn, took it to the table and buttered and salted it as usual, and it wasn't anything close to what we're used to eating. As mentioned, it's a variety that is specifically modified for high-protein/low sugar. It works, but we just can't expect a high gravity wort from it. Still makes a fine drink, as long as we don't beat ourselves up by trying to get more sugar from it, since it isn't there.

So on that note, I've taken to adding a couple pounds(in 5 gal. mashes) of corn sugar(sold at bulk food places, sometimes labeled as "dextrose") to bring the OG up. Haven't really noticed a difference in final flavor after stillin' it, other than getting a lot more alky from the run. Much, MUCH wider hearts cut than without the corn sugar(important if you're pot-stilling and like to keep some of the hearts from the first run, as I do).

I also run my cracked corn through the mill, at the same time as I grind the malt. I start grinding at the same time as I begin heating the water(electric; 4500 watts), and the temp alarm goes-off(180f) at about the same as I'm done grinding. I'll add the corn and some malt, let it sit about 30 minutes to thin, then take it up, slowly, to a boil to soften the corn, then leave it until the next day, where it'll be down to around 150/160(I have a very well insulated keggle), then toss-in the rest of the malt. In the end, I get about the same OG as y'all do, 'cept I don't sit around and stir so much. Color me lazy!

Believe me, it ain't lazy it's just smart. All that standing there stirin does for me is make my back hurt. I pre-soak my corn over night w/boiling backset, then an hour at 155-158F with a little amylase or malt, another hour at 185-190F is all corn needs to get good gelatinization.

I've experimented with all kinds of stuff with feed corn and I've come to the same conclusion, a little sugar to get the yield at around 7-8% has no effect on the flavors and it does save a lot of mashin.

Big R

[Barney Fife]

I pre-soak my corn over night w/boiling backset, then an hour at 155-158F with a little amylase or malt

Try adding some malt when soaking it; even at the high temps, some of the enzymes should survive long enough to help thin and gelatinize the corn. At least, it appears to, for me.

I also use a bag for all the grain(BIAB method).

[Jimbo]

I've done a fair amount of wheat and really like it. I actually prefer my red wheat whiskey to my all barley and my regular Bourbons. My wheat bourbons are wonderful. I've never done an all malt red wheat but I have done an all wheat using wheat from the co-op. Wheat really does benefit from a step mash and I recommend doing it that way. The beta glucanase and protease rests not only give a better saccrification but breaking up the proteins really helps in controlling foaming when you strip the wash. Big R

Thanks again Big R, I couldnt find wheat at our grain mills around these parts so went with the malt. Not too terribly expensive at $48 a bag. 10 lbs is reserved for my favorite hefeweizen recipe. The other 40 lbs will be split in 2 10 gallon runs of ~6%. I will do a first rest at 122, THANKS, then stir away as I raise it to 148.

Question for all: From your experiences what kind of 'drinkin' yield do you get from a 50lb sack of grain, say typical wheat or barley malt at 31PPG (AG, no sugar). The math works out to 3 gallons of 40%, ish, but of course losses in the boiler through 2 runs, and fores, heads and tails sorted out etc. Im curious what bottled yield to expect?

[rtalbigr]

Try adding some malt when soaking it; even at the high temps, some of the enzymes should survive long enough to help thin and gelatinize the corn. At least, it appears to, for me.

Hmmm...interesting idea. I only use enough liquid to cover the grains so I'm sure there's a good drop in the temps but I've never checked. I'll try this tomorrow to see if it makes a difference.

Big R

[GuyIncognito]

I've never distilled any wheat, but I've used raw wheat and wheat malt in beer brewing quite a bit. If you've got a favorite hefe recipe you're probably aware, but wheat can be very difficult/slow to sparge. Stirring in rice hulls helps, as well as heating the whole mash up to 170ish.

[Jimbo]

Question for all: From your experiences what kind of 'drinkin' yield do you get from a 50lb sack of grain, say typical wheat or barley malt at 31PPG (AG, no sugar). The math works out to 3 gallons of 40%, ish, but of course losses in the boiler through 2 runs, and fores, heads and tails sorted out etc. Im curious what bottled yield to expect?

Found an answer to my own question in this excellent online document from American Distillers Institute http://www.distilling.com/PDF/craftbook.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow Ian Smiley wrote much of it, I bought a book by him a few years ago thats also excellent and I recommend, Making Pure Corn Whiskey.

Anyway the answer to my question comes from a step by step walk through in this link for processing 2000 lbs barley, mashing, fermenting, distilling and barreling. The short version is 2000 lbs barley makes 53 gallons of 60%. Which works out to 2 gallons bottled yield of 40% for 50 lb sack of malt. So for production enterprises they get 2/3 yield against calculated theoretical using 31ppg for barley (80% efficiency).

Also, 2 gallons = 10 fifths for $43 bag of barley or $4.30 a bottle for 100% Malt AG Whiskey (assuming you have piles of harvested yeast dregs to use). I like that

Sláinte

[Jimbo]

Im running the cracked corn right now. Smells incredible in here, like corn bread. Im running really really slow, fast drip, on the 2nd quart now into hearts, which Ill keep, its tasting mighty fine. Then I'll crank it up and strip the rest to save and accumulate for a spirit run. Im hunting down a 1/4 barrel to make a spirit still. Seems working with 50 lb sacks of malt and cracked corn etc, the first runs should give me roughly 5 gallons of low wines, nice for a 7.75 gallon quarter barrel, not great for a half barrel. Anyone done this?

Anyway, the cracked corn took 2 weeks to ferment out to 0.998. It went really dry for S-05 beer yeast, surprised. Works out to 6% for the 10.25 gallons I squeezed out of the mash described below (16.6 lbs corn, 5 lbs barley malt).

[Jimbo]

Good yield on the corn mash. I had 10.25 gallons wash from the corn mash and yielded 1 quart hearts at 45% and 7 quarts stripped feints at 28%. This works out to 2 gallons at 30.1 %, or 1 gallon at 60%. Starting with ~10 gallons means the wash must have been something over 6% allowing for losses in the backset. Im guessing my OG might have been something north of the 1.047 I thought. The FG was 0.998, it went really dry in 2 weeks fermenting. Any thoughts?

Next step is do 2 more runs to use up the rest of the cracked corn and then run the works (~6 gallons 30%) a second time in a smaller spirit still. Gonna do the next 2 batches back to back so I can run them and the spirit run over the holiday break. Still have a sack of wheat malt staring at me too! And back online for another barrel! Im loving how this years brandy is turning out in a 5 gal barrel, a month+ and already wow. Life is good! Loving this!

[Jimbo]

I dont know if anyone is reading this babble, not a lot of responses, but Ill keep prattling on with my All Grain mashing and distilling escapades here in this thread. Hopefully someone who's considering AG mashes gets something out of it and feels motivated to give it a whirl. Its really not hard, at all. Did another corn mash tonight, just like the one below but with 2 changes, I ground up 1/2 of the corn into something looking like corn flour (we were discussing the low efficiency below with corn mashes), and I used 6 Row barley malt. I bought a sack of 6 row for these corn and barley experiments ( higher diastatic power (DP) (conversion power) than 2 row, and to save my Rahr 2row for BEER.

We'll see how the yield turns out compared to the run below. Of the apple, rolled barley and corn based spirits Ive done so far, corn is the easiest seems, and the most fun, the warm corn bread smell is incredible. But the apple is the most flavorful, so far anyway (the corn and barely are still very young), holy shit this years apple brandy is crazy good, 43 days in a 5 gallon barrel at 104 proof and already to a point I cant keep the wine thief out of the barrel, I dont know if you can see the legs in the glass below, but thats my apple brandy, I could make a habit of that. Its just flat out stupid good. 1425 lbs of apples I picked this year and turned into brandy, 16th year and I think brandy Ive finally figured out. Corn and malt whiskeys are a new challenge.

Cheers friends. -jb

[Usge]

Been following along jimdo....thanks! And Congrats!! Looks good. Always interested in others methods/success and insight. The only thing we are missing is being able to taste things over the internet .

Also, you mentioned looking for 1/4 barrel to make a spirit still. I use 8 gal pot from brewhaus and it's great. Mile-hi and others sell something similar. The lid is 8" and the clamp goes all the way around it. It has a proper 2" ferrule on the top so you can use a regular ridged PFTE or etc..gasket that centers itself. Brewhaus also does custom work (tig welding) that's reasonable and well done. I had a 1/2" threaded coupler welded on the bottom of mine for a drain. They also make custom lids (like you could get a thumper lid) so you could use this as either a spirit still, or put the other lid on and use it as a thumper to your keg.

Get a 20" long piece that's just 2" straight pipe with two 90s on the end with ferrules. You use that to just go straight from the keg to the thumper lid of the 8 gal pot. Then, just mount your standard potstill head/liebig on the output side ferrule of the thumper lid. Viola! I kept mine 2" all the way. The downtube is welded to the bottom of one of the ferrules and extends to (just off) the bottom of the pot, and has holes drilled around the skirt. The output side ferrule has no tube (doesn't need it). I've been using this pot for a couple years now...and it still looks brand new. (heavy duty). It also makes a good spirit still..for 5 gal or so charges. If you don't want any mods for it...I think they are about 160.00. If you find a 1/4 keg somewhere...even if it's cheap...by the time you pay shipping...you might end up in similar ball park. Just a thought.

Here's the setup: with it used as a thumper:

And here's the thumper "lid" (the 2nd ferrule on output side is barely visible, but it's there). This is mainly to show the 2" through tube.

I still have the original lid for the pot that has one ferrule. So, depending on whether I want to use this as spirit still or thumper..I just change the lids out.

[Durace11]

Looking good Jimbo, brandy is something I can't quite get to doing, I always drink the cider and skip on distilling it. I'm sure if I could rustle up 1400+lbs I'd figure out a way!

[Jimbo]

Thanks Usge, Im having fun with this. Tripping over assorted sacks of grain in my brew room, haha, Wife just shakes her head when I walk in with another 50 lb sack over my shoulder.

I hear ya on the internet tasting invention that is way overdue

Edit: That is one sweet looking setup Usge. And great idea for the dual head designs. With the thumper running do you do single runs for your spirits, instead of doing a seperate spirit run? how does it compare with seperate spirit runs, plus/minus's? What and how much do you charge the thumper with? Sorry for the barrage of questions.

Durace, LOL, funny. I do have 5 gallons of cider kegged up too

[Usge]

Jimdo, I find if you run wash...it pretty much acts just like a potstill run, only the flavor is a bit different. When I charged the thumper with low-wines, and ran 8 gals of wash, 2 gals of low-wines, I tossed the first quart (didn't measure it) of fores, and then stuck the parrot under it. My first reading on it was 85%. The run went like this at a flow rate of about 1 qt every 18-20 mins:

qt 85%
qt 84%
qt 83%
qt 83%
qt 82%
pint to 80%
qt 79%
qt 77%
qt 74%
1/2 qt to 70%
1/2 qt to 65%
qt to 60%
qt 50%
qt 40%
qt 26%
1/2 qt to 20%

Observations: it starts a little higher proof mostly due to the low-wines in the still charge. It tends to try and "Hold" that proof. It still falls, but at a much slower rate at first. Then falls dramatically towards the end. You'll find running wash is not that much different than a regular pot still run..just slightly higher proof. The flavor however (taste) is somewhat different.

You'll still end up double running if you want to really get the most out of it. The main difference is the flavor/taste. And that also depends on what you put in the thumper. If you put water in it...it will take longer to bring it online (it has to fill with alc first from main boiler, then heat until that mixture starts to give off vapor. This lowers the proof, but also makes cleaner tasting.. If you add wash/mash, it tends to add more flavor, but it's kind of a tails side flavor..smeared. Sometimes it's good! Sometimes not. Just depends. If you use feints (low-wines), it will raise the abv slightly more...and hold it longer. You can also mix low-wines, water, and or wash to tune it a bit. That's mainly to tune the flavor. The make up of the run is mainly going to depend on your still charge...with a minor role played by the amount of alc you start with in the thumper. It fills itself. There's a thumper thread in potstill forum at the top (stickie) that has lots of info in it.

So, I don't usually even bother with the thumper unless I've got a keg full of low-wines and want to do something with the flavor. Lots to play with. But, the main thing is..the way it's set up....is completely modular. That's my potstill head on the output side of the thumper. Take the thumper and the connecting pipe off...and just attach the same potstill head and liebig over ontop the keg for a straight up pot run. I can use it, or not use it. I can use the keg or the thumper for spirit runs by just changing the lid on it.

[Jimbo]

Thats brilliant. So it sounds like running some feints in the thumper is really the way to go, or water if looking for as clean as possible. Thats some high proof when charging with low wines and having a low wines spiked wash. How much low wines do you add to the thumper to get started? Just enough to cover the bottom of the input tube? Does the qty change much by the end of the run? Thanks

Also, you said the taste is 'different', different how? better or worse or?

[Usge]

Damit jimdo...there you go again wanting to taste things over the internet . It tastes "different". Bad/good...I dunno. Sometimes I like it. Sometimes I don't.

The thumper fills itself as the vapor bubbling through the cooler liquid in it (whtaever you put in it) condenses. It's also (the vapor) heating the mixture/thumper at the same time. So, now...the abv is rising in the thumper (boiling point is falling) and the vapor temp coming in drives the heat up. As the vapor comes in..and bubbles out the bottom of the tube..it makes a thumpity, thumpity, thumpity rhythmic sound. Sort of like somebody farting in the tub..only it smells better.

So, to answer one question you asked..it fills itself. Low-wines and a little water. All you need to do is cover the inlet tube. I put a little extra in. Don't rightly remember exactly how much it was...like 1-2 gallons. Somewhere in there. Way I did it...was to pour in low-wines. Then just place the lid on without clamping it down. Lift out the thumper lid and check the downtube to see where it was wet (like a dipstick). I just made sure it was good and above the vent holes on the bottom. It was about an inch over them or so. If you put too much (whatever) in your thumper...it will take a lot longer to heat up. During that time, the main pot will be going through it's run...pumping vapor into it..smearing fractions. That can turn out good or bad. So, you can play with that. But, start...with it just above the tube. If you fill it too much, and it takes like 2 hours to come on line..and is condensing vapor the whole time, filling it with liquid...it could easily puke.

I think the key to it is to run "low-wines" as your main still charge (or mostly low-wines). This keeps the thumper "fed" so that it maintains proof. You can mix wash in there, but the more low-wines you feed to it...the more impact of the thumper you'll see. As to the thumper itself...so long as you are running low-wines in your main pot...you can put just about anything you want in the thumper and it will work. Water/cleaner. Mash/wash/more flavor. Low-wines/feints..more proof. There is some cross over there...but you get the idea. You can also "mix" things ..ie., put water and feints. Or mash and low-wines, etc. You get the idea.

[rtalbigr]

Thats brilliant. So it sounds like running some feints in the thumper is really the way to go, or water if looking for as clean as possible. Thats some high proof when charging with low wines and having a low wines spiked wash. How much low wines do you add to the thumper to get started? Just enough to cover the bottom of the input tube? Does the qty change much by the end of the run? Thanks

Also, you said the taste is 'different', different how? better or worse or?

To me the difference in taste is that no matter what I charge with it's just cleaner. It seems like the thumper filters a lot of the tails. I did an experiment with mine when I first started using it by running some pot still vodka I had. I filled both my pot and thumper with some 5x diluted to 40% and when I opened the thumper at the end the charge was really cloudy, so I know it filtered out a lot of stuff.

I run an 8 gal pot so when I do a spirit I'll charge with 5 gal. Normally that consists of 4 gal low wine and 1 gal wash giving me an avg abv from 35-40%. My thumper is 3.5 gal and I'll charge it with 1 qt wash and 2 qts low wines. Ya want your thumper charge to be right around 1/4 full. Too much and it takes too long to heat up, too little and you loose a lot of that filtering effect.

I typically get about a 5% boost in abv with my thumper. At 40% and straight pot best I ever get is 78% and with my thumper I'll get 82-83%. I never have gotten the 85% that Usge gets. With my thumper I'll actually get a slight increase in abv after the run gets going. My fores and heads will come out at around 78-80% and then when I get into hearts the abv will jump a couple of points. It'll then hold at that abv for a good half of the run, so it really extends the hearts. The drop off from there mirrors what I'll get running straight pot until I get into tails and then it's like going over a cliff, the abv drops really fast.

Does the qty change much by the end of the run?

Typically, the volume at the end of my runs is a little over double my original charge, another reason to just start with about 1/4 full.

Big R

[Usge]

I edited my last post since Big R chimed in to put my "flavor" difference comments here.

I do find that it can be somewhat cleaner as Big R says..but that's mainly from the proof. As a secondary boiler..it makes perfect sense that you are leaving the worst of the tails behind in the thumper. What's coming out of the thumper is garnered from what has already come before. Therefore, to me...it seems to be more "blended" with tails side flavors earlier in the run (ie., through the hearts). This is also a common occurrence in plated stills. This can be a good thing (ie., adding grain/corn taste). Or it can be a bad thing depending on what you are running. If you hit on it just right...you get clean distillate..with a real corn/grain taste to it.

If've also had blanked runs...when I overfilled my thumper..where the main pot ran half through the run before the thumper ever heated up.

Oh, and beyond the still charge, I would attribute my proof to the 2" pipe ..which brought my thumper online in 14 mins after the vapor came over and it started thumping. (14 mins till it started dripping). A lot of people add the thumper later and do so by sizing the input and output from their thumper to match the size of their last reducer before the condenser. (*ie., they put it in between the reduced end of their potstill head where it attached to condenser and size both input and output to that). I found that to be counter productive (restricted) and it makes it hard to heat your thumper..as well as increases velocity for given heat..which tends to smear things more. So, my goal was to keep it open as possible.

As to the output side, most people just make it the same size as the worm or condenser so that it attaches readily. I thought of it no differently than a standard pot still (ie., you've got vapor coming off). You wouldn't attach a 1/2" pipe to your keg to use as a take off?? So, why do it on the thumper? So, I just used my standard 2" potstill head. I've seen old designs...that had liebigs on that side (ie., reflux condensers). I think the connection from main pot to the thumper should be "direct" as possible to drive it. But, the output side, you could play with in the same way as you could on any pot. I think it should still be open (2" for this size). So, I use the same potstill head/liebig that I would use on the keg if I weren't running the thumper. Didn't have to build anything extra just to run the thumper. And it allowed me to keep everything open.

[Jimbo]

It tastes "different". Bad/good...I dunno. Sometimes I like it. Sometimes I don't.

BAHAHAHA! Thanks for the clarification.

Lots of good info, so what it seems youre both saying is the thumper adds most value during a spirit run, to clean up the final take. Not to take the place of 2 runs. Sounds good. Ive read a lot of distilleries do essentially the same, they first do a fast stripping run with the plates all open, then they drop one plate (not more) for the spirit run to clean things up and get the character theyre after (for whiskeys obviously not neutrals).

You guys have me geeked up to build a thumper. Ill post pics when its done. And I took notes on fill type/qty etc from what youve said, THANKS! Cant wait to experiment.

Does the thumper backset (thumperset?) have any value when youre done? Add it to the next wash or spirit run?

[Usge]

Does the thumper backset (thumperset?) have any value when youre done? Add it to the next wash or spirit run?

I just toss it.

[Jimbo]

Here's my wrap up on the cracked corn and rolled barley runs in this thread. I posted this in 'what did y'all make today' forum, but repeated here to close this story out. Cheers!
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I did the final cuts of cracked corn and rolled barley runs in this thread.

50 lbs cracked corn, 20 lbs 6 row and 15 lbs rolled barley yielded 2 gallons diluted to 57% dumped in an oak barrel, and 48 ounces at 66% aging on some charred sticks in a jug. The rest is solvent for the workshop.
My yield is lower than reported by some distilleries (2 gal 60% per 50lbs grain), but I dont have a plate to drop and clean up the spirit run, and the tails outta my crude potstill just didnt tickle me. I did go slightly wide into the heads tho. I like that bite. Some straight hearts run I took off a while back that is sittin on oak is already 'too' smooth. If that makes sense?

Now I start in on a 50lb bag of wheat malt.

Cheers, and thanks for all your inputs along the way!

[MichiganCornhusker]

I dont know if anyone is reading this babble, not a lot of responses, but Ill keep prattling on with my All Grain mashing and distilling escapades here in this thread. Hopefully someone who's considering AG mashes gets something out of it and feels motivated to give it a whirl.

Just stumbled onto this old dusty thread today. Lots of great info, really helpful for what I'm doing right now with enzymes and 100% grain experiments. Thanks for continuing to prattle on, Jimbo, you never know who, or when, someone will benefit from it! Thanks to everyone who contributed to this post!

[Halfbaked]

Most excellent find.