phase angle controller

[sambedded]

Doesnt matter i have both readily available. The QVR/s controller says 17amp

Spec says " Max load at 20C ambient ( without extra heatsink) - 10A"

[shawn2974]

Your correct sorry i went back to make sure i read. If i used a home built box with a fan will it work like that. I dont quite understand how a heatsink works. Can an additional heatsink be added to this regulator?

[shawn2974]

I understand a heatsink draws heat away from the resistors. Would means off forced cooling work as well?

[sambedded]

Yes, heatsink can be installed on top of this unit (see spec) . You can either use a big heatsink with no fan or smaller one but with forced air-flow. Your aim to keep temperature of triak(inside a unit) below 85-90C, ideally below 65C. Otherwise triac will be burned out.

[Soggy Bottom Boy]

I understand a heatsink draws heat away from the resistors. Would means off forced cooling work as well?

You will need a heat sink, and heat sink compound goop to make it transfer heat to the heat sink. With a 3500w element on 230v, you are going to be drawing around 15-16amps. Your heat sink has to have a thermal resistance rating of less 2.5 degreesC per watt generated, one rated for 1.5 degreesC/W would be much better, and an additional fan to move the heat off of the heat sink would be a good idea too.

If you run that element on 115v, it will draw about 8 amps, but only generate 875 watts worth of heat. So, technically speaking, as long as the ambient temp isn't over 20C/68F you wouldn't need a heat sink to run it on 115v. .....but then again, you won't keep your wash boiling with 875w either.

[goinbroke2]

Ok, my turn to pester a bit more!

I'm going to order the ssr-40 online, since I'm doing that I might as well order everything.
So, can anybody link me to the exact potentiometer and 500ohm resistor I need so I can order all three at once...PLEASE?

I did a bunch of calling around today and people are completely lost. For electronic places, man, I'd be embarrassed if I was that inept while trying to sell car parts or performance stuff.

Thanks

[jholmz]

goin broke i was directed to this site when looking into going electric looks like a pretty good deal to me you get the whole kit.

stilldragon.com/diy-controller.html

[goinbroke2]

Thanks jholmz, I just ordered it!

"This transaction will appear on your statement as PayPal *STILLDRAGON."



(of course today I heard power rates are going up again, third time in three years! )

[Odessit]

I already wrote about non-stability of regulators this kind if mains power have standard deviation (+-10%).
The calculation shows that for the phase angle controller, this non-stability is greater than I thought.
Let the power of heater is 2500 watts at 230 volts.
If the potentiometer is set to 50%, at a voltage of 230 volts heating power is 1250 watts, at 210 volts - 920 watts, at 250 - 1630.
Voltage deviation of less than + -10% gives power deviation 1/3-1/4 part of needed power. That is a lot.
Calculator uploaded. To use it, press the arrow controls in blue boxes for changing of voltage, power of heater and for adjusting of potentiometer.
The results of the calculations will be show in the yellow fields.

XLS-file protected without password.
You can remove protection and see how the calculation is made or to change it at will.

[sambedded]

I already wrote about non-stability of regulators this kind if mains power have standard deviation (+-10%).
.

I don't know about rural areas but in my city I have pretty stable voltage. I 'm measuring it constantly by Fluke TrueRMS voltmeter. Usually it in 238-240V range.

[goinbroke2]

I already wrote about non-stability of regulators this kind if mains power have standard deviation (+-10%).
The calculation shows that for the phase angle controller, this non-stability is greater than I thought.
Let the power of heater is 2500 watts at 230 volts.
If the potentiometer is set to 50%, at a voltage of 230 volts heating power is 1250 watts, at 210 volts - 920 watts, at 250 - 1630.
Voltage deviation of less than + -10% gives power deviation 1/3-1/4 part of needed power. That is a lot.
Calculator uploaded. To use it, press the arrow controls in blue boxes for changing of voltage, power of heater and for adjusting of potentiometer.
The results of the calculations will be show in the yellow fields.

XLS-file protected without password.
You can remove protection and see how the calculation is made or to change it at will.

Thanks Odessit but I'll assume the power is what it says here. But even if it's not, I will have an unmarked knob to turn, I run by ear/feel so once it's up to temp and the boiling chips are rattling, I'll turn it back and watch abv and speed. My only concern would be if it was fluctuating which I doubt would be.

I like the KISS theory, I'll turn it to where it works, whether that turns out to be 50% or 40 or 60...who cares?
I could concern myself on the flow resistance of vapours on a 2" copper pipe too and investigate into whether honing the bore would improve speed at possibly the detriment of flavour.....or I can stick a 2" copper pipe on it and use it.

Thanks for the concern and possible issues I might have but I procrastinate too much as it is. I started looking into this 2 years ago! I even wired a 220 and 110 wall socket so I could plug in at 220 for heat up then switch to 110 for the run...but I know this will work better.

Once I have this puppy up and running I'll report back on it's performance.

[bellybuster]

Odessit, where are you getting that we have a 10% deviation in power from the mains?
I have audio equipment that would fry if it deviated that much. A 10% swing would be visibly noticeable in your lighting.
Maybe in the Ukraine you have that kind of lousy power although I've been there and didn't notice it.

[goinbroke2]

I just got off the phone with a guy (friend of a friend of a friend) who works in the generating station here in Halifax.
He said their mandate is less than 1% deviation because before 1% were to occur secondary bypass systems would engage.
Meant didly squat to me but the long and short of it is, the power is steady 220, period.

All I know is, I'll dial up or down to find my sweet spot. If that is at 30% or 60%, I don't care.

[bellybuster]

I did the same and my buddy says it is not measurable by the average home owner.

I have also ordered the same SSR although need to find a resistor now, might find something on an old motherboard or ill need to make a trip to the electronics store.

[WIski]

Goinbroke2 wrote,

I run by ear/feel so once it's up to temp and the boiling chips are rattling

,

I know off topic but have to ask.....If you’re using an internal heating element to heat your wash as opposed to external flame under the boiler will the chips really rattle??? Thanks......

[goinbroke2]

Goinbroke2 wrote,

I run by ear/feel so once it's up to temp and the boiling chips are rattling

,

I know off topic but have to ask.....If you’re using an internal heating element to heat your wash as opposed to external flame under the boiler will the chips really rattle??? Thanks......

..... ....good point...I guess I'll find out!
Gotta make sure the chips (1" pieces of copper pipe squished) don't touch or otherwise interfere with the element though I guess. I might run the first batch without them as a precaution.

[bellybuster]

Haha been wondering what boiling chips were, I assumed they were the glass bubbles that you float on top to keep heat in.

[jholmz]

if the wash is bubbling as in boiling it will move the boiling chips (small pieces of copper scrap tossed in the bottom of the boiler) around and they will make noisehitting on the bottom of your boiler. doesnt matter if you boil from inside or out the wash is what moves them dont know about if they will interfere with the element havnt got mine changed over to electric yet

[goinbroke2]

if the wash is bubbling as in boiling it will move the boiling chips (small pieces of copper scrap tossed in the bottom of the boiler) around and they will make noisehitting on the bottom of your boiler. doesnt matter if you boil from inside or out the wash is what moves them dont know about if they will interfere with the element havnt got mine changed over to electric yet

Exactly jholmz, I should add, the purpose of boiling chips are to start the distillation smoother/easier. Without them the liquid will come to a high enough temp before breaking surface tension to actually make a big bubble (and resulting surge). But with chips, they let off tiny bubbles which break the surface tension earlier/sooner in a more gradual way resulting in a "softer" start to the distillation.

[bellybuster]

I guess marbles would work too then?

[goinbroke2]

Yes, pretty much anything that will not be effected by heat or alcohol. I used 1" copper pipe, then squished it down after watching them work in a open pot of water on the stove. I kept squishing, bending,pinching until I got the tiniest bubbles.

Yeah, I can be a little anal on things!

[Odessit]

A 10% swing would be visibly noticeable in your lighting.

I thought so too until i started to measure voltage. Mains voltage varies from 200 volts (0-12 pm) to 240 volts (0-12 am). Slow changes do not affect the light.
These fluctuations do not exceed standards (+ - 10%). These standard deviations cause changes in the heating power at + -20% for direct connection of heating element, and more then -30-40% for phase angle control regulation.
By the way, supply voltage deviation +-10% is a norm for all countries.

[Odessit]

He said their mandate is less than 1% deviation because before 1% were to occur secondary bypass systems would engage.

Vendors support + -1% at the beginning of the line for ensure the + -10% at the end of the line.

I'll dial up or down to find my sweet spot. If that is at 30% or 60%, I don't care.

I think, this is boring - continuously dial up or down.

I just remind about phase angle controller - for same position of potentiometer, the heater can give different levels of heat.
The difference can be large. This controller is not suitable for long-term accurate heating.

I write about it because I myself faced with instability heating under the same settings. Calculations have shown that this instability is natural, not accidental ...
You can take note of it, or can ignore - everyone decides himself.

That's all, folks.

[bellybuster]

I would suggest a phase angle controller is not for you.

[shawn2974]

goin broke i was directed to this site when looking into going electric looks like a pretty good deal to me you get the whole kit.

stilldragon.com/diy-controller.html

I took the time to check this controller out and it looks like it be perfect for me. I dont understand how to get in touch with these people or look at there entire line of things for sale. I went to there web site and when i click on what i want the screen stays blank. Can u help me out with this?

[Mr Shine]

I took the time to check this controller out and it looks like it be perfect for me. I dont understand how to get in touch with these people or look at there entire line of things for sale. I went to there web site and when i click on what i want the screen stays blank. Can u help me out with this?

If you go to the last line in their "bullet points" for this, you'll see...

""***Direct contact to the builder here."

If you click on the "here," you'll be directed to compose an email to rbs@stilldragon.com. I'm thinking that's how to get in contact with them and have an of your questions answered.

I've never done business with them, by the way... so I'm not vouching for them. Just saw what the site said and thought I'd be of help.

Hope that helps.

[shawn2974]

I been looking for a simple all in one controller like this and finally found it. Do u know of anywhere else out there i can get one this simple. Im not to crazy about doing buiness with people i bearly hear about when it come to this stuff

[goinbroke2]

Actually, what I did is scroll to the bottom of the page and on the left there is a button "add to cart". I clicked that and it went to "your shopping cart". There are buttons for "check out" or "check out with paypal" or "continue shopping".
Click on paypal ...crap wait.

OK, I just realised what your problem might be. Go to the stilldragon forum (top left of page click on "dragon/forum") and get a log in. Once you have that it will let you procede.
Also, you must have a paypal account or a credit card ready.

Haven't been on the forum yet, but hey, the more stilling forums the better. Make it mainstream!

[shawn2974]

Does anyone know where i can find a simple set up for a power controller for a 3500 watt heating element?

[WIski]

The answer to your question is easily found if you read this and many other numerous threads found on this site. Please help yourself to as much information as you want. It's FREE. All you have to do is look. Good luck.....