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I like for newbies to post on what they know on what they have learned.Lets us know if they are getting it right.Old timers and staff are there for hard stuff and to correct any wrong answers by anyone including each other .I think you should post what ya know and what ya think ya know but always make it plain between the two.Id like to see all members active in posts.Post counts don't mean shi$. Anyone is 1500 posts of smiley faces away from being a master distiller.

Well said Tater. I'm very new to this hobby. Been practicing about six months now. In some ways that may make us better equipped to handle some Newby questions. Simply for the fact that it hasn't been very long ago that we were making the same mistakes and asking the same questions.

That's why I try to stick to answering Newby questions. Simply because when I was there I was scared to ask any questions at all. I get being frustrated with answering the same questions all the time. I don't get being rude or trying to run people off. Do we really want people to leave here and continue to get their info from less reliable sources? Or do we want to expand the membership and thereby expand the knowledge of this hobby we love so much?

I'd like for this hobby to be legal some day. The more people participating safely. Whether it be distilling themselves or enjoying home made product. The more likely it eventually becomes legal and accessible to the masses.

I see the point to both sides of the argument though.

Anyone coming to these forums should understand that what we talk about are adult topics that can have lasting consequences... A thick skin helps a lot because we aren't going to lavish comments with flowers and pretty fragrances... And this definitely isn't the place for someone who suffers from beaten dog syndrome... Matter of fact, in your face, comments are made for good reason - because we can't reach out and bitch slap someone to make them listen... That feeling that you've done something bad is conveyed for good reason - because we want people to be on notice that what they are doing can injure or kill if the overall craft isn't taken seriously... And we also want the next person who comes along to know our firm stance on subjects rather than being all wishy-washy... A few short minutes of feeling like you've been singled out is far better than years of carrying around mental or physical scars because nobody protected you and others from your actions and/or beliefs... Not to mention the fact that we get tired of having to constantly repeat ourselves...

It's enough to drive a person to drink... I'll have another, please...

Posted the same time as Tater...

just-a-sip wrote: but if you want to be on the subject you did suggest locking out a member until they read the new distillers reading lounge. and although i think this is required reading to get started, there is also some great info buried within all the other threads, so locking them out is a terrible idea.

Just for the record,
I didn't suggest locking them out of the forums until they read the new distillers lounge. My suggestion was to offer a list of topics they could read based on questions in their post prior to their post being accepted.

Similar to how some of the tech support websites work. (You ask a question, and it suggests a few possible topics that appear to be about the same question)

It was an idea, that implemented correctly could be really helpful. I was advised by someone that it would be a difficult thing to program, and I left it at that.

And that's all I got ta say about that.

Tater wrote:I like for newbies to post on what they know on what they have learned.Lets us know if they are getting it right.Old timers and staff are there for hard stuff and to correct any wrong answers by anyone including each other .I think you should post what ya know and what ya think ya know but always make it plain between the two.Id like to see all members active in posts.Post counts don't mean shi$. Anyone is 1500 posts of smiley faces away from being a master distiller.

Well said its easy to rack posts especially in the welcome section ( although it is important to welcome new members). I have certain members regardless of the subject when they post I'm going to read it your one of them!

Are you insinuating that I have beaten dog syndrome Rad? I'm a veteran of two foreign wars. My skin is plenty thick. I just don't agree that being an ass is the only way to reach people. I've led men and different people react to different leadership styles. Telling people "Maybe this isn't the place for you. Toughen up Buttercup" because they put a thermometer on a pot still isn't exactly saving lives.

*Steps out of the shadow for a minute*
The questionnaire idea would not have locked anybody out of anywhere. It would of prevented new users from posting a question until they have passed the questionnaire ensuring that every new user has a guaranteed amount of knowledge on the subject. For someone such as myself, it would of helped tremendously. I thought it to be a pretty good idea, and would alleviate some repetitive questions and help the mentors keep their sanity. The amount of information here is a double-edged sword. I felt I had a decent grasp on the basics after reading the 3 books that I bought but I also think after coming here I had over-read and the information became diluted, and found myself asking a few embarrassing questions as a result; wasting the mentors time where it could be better spent. If answering a few questions before making a post is too much for some people, maybe those instant gratification types need to become a little more patient as this hobby requires. If you think something like that will drive people away, I don't really see the harm in that. I don't want to drive anybody away, but user acquisition doesn't appear to be a goal here. Just my opinion.

Not to mention the fact that we get tired of having to constantly repeat ourselves...

No one is forcing you to constantly repeat yourself.

junkyard dawg wrote:

Not to mention the fact that we get tired of having to constantly repeat ourselves...

No one is forcing you to constantly repeat yourself.

DING...DING...DING
[Carnival Barker Voice]
We have a WINNER!

see here i am again saying something but not knowing how to get it across right.. (foot in mouth)

i am not saying not to post or ask questions, what im trying to say is many members (not all) come in and post advice strictly to post and have no clue what is going on themselves.

i mean how often have you seen a newb say read read read, start over then come back, only to look back about a week and see them getting the same advice and often not taking it. i was not trying to single anyone out and i guess like always im going to have to keep my big mouth shut. but i just get amazed at how often members step where a mentor should and get told that their advice is incorrect.

No one is forcing you to constantly repeat yourself.

JD,

You are 100% correct. But thank goodness there are knowledgeable people here that have taken some personal ownership and feel responsible (out of a concern for the craft and the safety of others) to constantly repeat themselves. It would only be normal human nature to get frustrated with that. I have empathy for those frustrations. Without additional tools such as RibRob suggested these frustrations will be inevitable.

My opinion only........

But thank goodness there are knowledgeable people here that have taken some personal ownership and feel responsible (out of a concern for the craft and the safety of others) to constantly repeat themselves. It would only be normal human nature to get frustrated with that. I have empathy for those frustrations

I understand that completely. That is a great reminder and important to keep in mind as you also remember that this is voluntary.

(out of a concern for the craft and the safety of others)

I have to remember... that is not a 'high horse' when I respond to questions.

Uncle Jemima wrote:Are you insinuating that I have beaten dog syndrome Rad? I'm a veteran of two foreign wars. My skin is plenty thick. I just don't agree that being an ass is the only way to reach people. I've led men and different people react to different leadership styles. Telling people "Maybe this isn't the place for you. Toughen up Buttercup" because they put a thermometer on a pot still isn't exactly saving lives.

If the shoe fits, wear it... But, no, I was not directing my comments towards anyone in particular... But over the years we have had several excessively sensitive members that went into spin cycle mode when every word directed at them wasn't absolute praise for their not knowing what the hell they were doing...

I'll keep my own shoes. Thanks. I've noticed you use that "beaten dog syndrome" and "buttercup" comeback for anyone who calls you out for being an asshole. That's why I figured you were referring to me. Keep saving the world one verbal "bitch slap" at a time Internet tough guy. Where would we be without it.

.Rule 2 applies to everyone ..There is no excuse for anyone to be rude to anyone. If ya cant respond in a nice manner I don't care who you are Do not post.

Thanks Tater. Didn't mean to be a jerk. Never said everything should be all praise, flowers and rainbows. I just don't do well with bullies. Like I said before. Probably just part of my upbringing and military background.

Id have to say I'm a relative newbie. Especially when I hear some of the things the mentors (or any other member who's been here a while) speak about. Someday I hope to have their level of expertise. And this is in no way an @ss kiss. Some of these guys are truly masters of the craft.

However, I've been around long enought to recognize, by what's posted, that the said member has done very little research. You just know they were on the net and HD came up in a search. Immediately they sign up and start asking questions that no doubt gives away who they are.

The part I find frustrating, is trying to find answers to my questions that are always buried under a mountain of repeated queries that have been covered numerous times. I've been a member here for over a year but have only 13 post or so. Its not that I'm not here cuz I am, everyday. Its just that id rather read or try and find what I'm looking for cuz I know somewhere deep in this forum its there. But that is my choice. I'm sure others enjoy the interaction and to each his own.

I guess its a double edged sword of sorts and I can certainly see both sides of the argument. I think being rude is not how to conduct your self in a position of authority, on the other hand; newbies, don't be afraid to do a little reading. After all, its some good stuff and there's truly a wealth of information buried in these pages.

Some of you boys have no idea how much blood, sweat and tears that some of the more seasoned members have invested into this site... This is a house built by a few that have contributed alot... When they have invested so much, helped so many, do you not think they might have a reason to be cocky\ head strong in protecting this site??? Try putting their shoes on,(how would you be) ???After you learn more about what all they have done to help our hobby, and really invest the time into learning who all has contributed what... Until then, maybe you should just shut he hell up.... Take another sip from what you've been lucky enough to gain here...

Rule 2 that Tater politely pointed out?

2. Be polite and courteous. Remember that nobody is perfect and nobody knows everything. We've all got our strengths and limitations which is why we share information with each other in the first place. Remember that we're all different and nothing is going to change that fact.

I think Uncle Jesse wrote that one.

Hey Unc,

With total respect, really. Thank you for your service to all here in USA. You Sir have my total respect and gratitude. Rule #2 polite & courteous..... yes common respect, absolutely! But, how do you respond to a poster that asks basic questions that could have been easily answered with only a minute or two of searching. Most of the time they say "after days of reading". Clearly not the case. A BIG LIE! Many times they post a picture of a shit still that is dangerous and clearly out of the parameters set here on HD. Again easily found with a minutes worth of searching. These people are clearly clowns or want to be held by the hand and walked through the process. Not a good match in either case to be messing around in this craft. A lot of times a member will post a reply with Rule #2 adhered to and then get a smart ass response from the OP. The old timers here have seen this HUNDREDS of times and can see it coming a mile away. These clowns will only hurt the attempt to legitimize the craft that the Masters have poured their hearts into. How would you handle these situations if you had as much invested as some of the more veteran distillers here????

I ate a taco once.

I get that Wiski. I'll come at somebody the same way they come at me. No problem with that at all. If somebody asks a question respectfully I'll try and give them a respectful answer. Don't just mean here. I mean life in general. If they come at me rude then I'll be more rude. I get that. And if its a simple question that I feel is beneath me. I just won't answer at all. Not like anybody is asking ME specifically their retarded questions that are so beneath me.

What I see on a regular basis is a simple question being attacked. Has it been answered here somewhere before? Probably. Has there been any question asked yet that hasn't been answered here somewhere before? Probably not many. So should we just shut the place down and move all info to the Wiki page?

It wouldn't be hard to give examples but its pointless I guess. Any message board is going to have people who feel like they've got enough street cred that they can be rude and act in ways they never would to a person's face (not without a strong case for an ass whooping at least) and enough people will suck up to them to reinforce this.

Fuck it.

PrairiePiss. Tacos are delicious.

God I love tacos....

(yep, gratuitous post count boosting post....)

Unc,

I'm far from a suck up. Thanks for that. My point, this is not a forum about baking pies. It is a forum involving an activity that could be prosecuted as a felony. The goal would be to get a large active membership acting in a responsible way to legitimize the craft and prove it should not be a crime. Members NEED to operate just enough under the radar as to not draw bad press but at the same time gain enough interest to grow. The clowns will KILL this effort. The actions of a few will hurt the aspirations of many.

So what do you do with the guy in your combat group whose actions could destroy the group’s mission or worse????

PP & JD.....What’s the deal with tacos?????

Sorry Wiski. Absolutely didn't mean you. There are plenty of newbies that have been here less than a month like me who are already taking that example and trying to berate any new poster. Probably just trying to be like the old timers they see act that way? That'd be my guess. Just-A-Sip touched on it earlier.

I get what you're saying. I want there to be as many people doing this safely so that it's some day legal too. That's why anytime a friend or family member shows interest I point them here. Like I said before though. Telling somebody who had a thermometer on their pot still that this may not be the place for them when they were curious about their take off temps isn't exactly saving lives.

Sorry again for the misunderstanding Wiski. Like I said. You were polite and respectful. I wouldn't turn around and call you an ass kiss for that.

My favorite tacos are from Fuzzy's Taco Shop. Home of the fish taco. And yes that's a place. I'm not being dirty. Google it.

Something many don't get. There are so many different types of people that come from so many walks of life here. And because you think I'm rude. Doesn't always mean I'm rude. Or trying to be rude. Many take my to the point attitude as being rude. It's just my nature. That's how I am. I'm not trying to be rude. I'm trying to point out something. But some people take everything personal. Don't realize that not everyone in the world is just like them. And get their feelings hurt.

I make stupid posts every once in a while. Probably more then I should. And I get a slap in the back of the head from someone. Tater is good for that. I take it as a learning experience. If I don't fully understand why. I ask why. I learn my lesson and say thank you. Move on to the next one.

Hell I have even been called rude for simply posting something like this.

This would be a good thread for you to read. Insert link here.
Or
That is covered in this must read section.

This is my way of trying not to be rude. More then likely its not what I really wanted to post. But if I was to post what I wanted to. Then someone would end up butt hurt. So I point them to a thread that can explain it a lot better then I can in one little post. If they don't want to take it upon themselves to go read the info I pointed them to. Now who is being rude?

This forum is no different then the rest of the world over. You get this many different people together talking about the same subject. Someone is going to get butt hurt.

Now where was i? Oh yeah. Tacos are gooder stuffs.

And just to be clear on the combat group thing. I served in two combat/imminent danger zones but was never in a combat role. Don't want to take credit for something I didn't do. I have too much respect for the guys that did. I spent nearly a year and a half between two trips deployed to the Middle East but was never under fire.

Somebody has to support the guys that are though.

I did carry a side arm though in a cool leg holster. So that's gotta' be worth some kind of tough guy points right? Of course. The cute 105 pound female hospital corpsman that gave me my flu shot did too so maybe not.

And seriously. Look up Fuzzy's Tacos. If there's one near you get some. Then thank me later.

I thought we all agreed to never talk about tacos again that after that last 'incident' with a newbie? All that goats blood and ostrich feathers, not to mention the big red fire extinguisher and the blonde Carmelite nun from Tijuana with the polished leather appliance that she...

You know what I'm talking about.

Don't make me post the pictures. I swear, I'll do it.

::smack:: Oh yeah forgot about that. Forget I ever said anything. Thanks for the reminder Hook.