Lucky bastards meeting in Schiedam?

[Jimbo]

No in front of the leibig, before it, ahead of it, ugh, you know what I mean man, vapor. trap is probably the wrong word too kooi, val, afgeschermde box? haha fun with translator, prolly making you laugh eh, I dont even wanna know what Im 'really' saying.

I did read yoru genever writeups, very helpful thanks. I'll stick with infusing and boiling the herbs in the boiler as you say.

Cheers

[Odin]

That will really give you the best results. I used to think that fruit skins were the exception. Untill I talked to a master genever distiller. If he wants - say - orange into the equasion, he takes oranges, cuts them in fours, adds them to 60% for 3 days, dilutes to 30% with water, and then runs everything together. Fruit/fruit skins in the boiler don't make it harsh. Fruits (and other herbs and berries) in the boiler will make the drink more complex and more integrated. In genever making that is what you want. In gin making the goal is different. Gin is usually drunk together with tonic. So you actually want to flavour your tonic. Fruit notes and tones give a very nice twist to tonic. And that's probably why vapour infusion is good. It won't "integrate" the tastes as well. Au contraire: fruit tastes will stand out individually when vapour infused. And mixers with tonic want that.

Okay, I understand your setup Jim. If you vapour infuse, do it before the bridge reaches its highest point. On/in the column on your potstill. Not just above the liebig. Particle contamination.

And if you are not into gin-tonic and want to go jenever (or make a truelly great aquavit or pastis): the boiler. That's the place to be.

Just think of Pastis. What happens when you add some ice and/or water? It clouds up! Means the maximum of tasty oils got over in your drink. Just soluble at 40%. Ad the slightest bit of water of cold (ice) and the solubility deteriorates and - hoppa - it clouds. Personally I think it is not a good thing in any drink, because clouding means tasty oils get out of solution. Less of an integrated drink. But in Pastis it is part of the fun. And how do you get over most of the oils? By distilling with herbs (anise for Pastis) in the boiler. A vapour infused Pastis will never give you clouding.

Odin.

[rtalbigr]

jimdo - The real key to genever and absinthe is macerating the herbs in your distillate. Ya need a pot still with an external heat source because part of the process and getting the flavor profile involves the heating/cooking of the herbs during the distillation. With genever I put my "maltwine" and all my herbs in my pot the night before I do my run, so they macerate at least 12 hours. I bring it up to temp real slow. The pots a mess after the run but it cleans up real easy. For absinthe I've read that ya need to macerate anywhere from 18-48 hrs in 80-85% neutral, then dilute down to 40% to distill with the herbs in the pot.

Big R

[Jimbo]

Ok thanks guys. The challenge now is what to use for a nice 'neutral' for infusing? Im a potstiller. Just a simple all malt recipe and run it twice? No frills. 80-85% will be tough for me with my still tho, highest I get on a low wines run from my whiskey strippers (30%ish) is close to 70% on 2nd pass. Maybe I can run a 40% and see if I get there.

Found a great Absinthe website, recipes too, fyi. http://www.feeverte.net/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Odin]

I guess for absinte a neutral is wanted. Maybe try Wineo's or Birdwatchers. Run her three times thru your pot still. But if you have whiskey at 70% that's fine. For genever it is. Easiest approach? Bring it back to 60%, add herbs & crushed berries, macerate for 12 to 24 hours, dilute to 30%, run. Beware of first juniper oils in the first 20 mls you will collect.

Odin.

[rtalbigr]

Ok thanks guys. The challenge now is what to use for a nice 'neutral' for infusing? Im a potstiller. Just a simple all malt recipe and run it twice? No frills. 80-85% will be tough for me with my still tho, highest I get on a low wines run from my whiskey strippers (30%ish) is close to 70% on 2nd pass. Maybe I can run a 40% and see if I get there.

Found a great Absinthe website, recipes too, fyi. http://www.feeverte.net/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I get my neutral by running my collected feints and usually run it 4x. I use my thumper for this and I can get 82-83%.

Big R

[Jimbo]

Thanks guys. I will do as you both say for my base. I just ran a stripper on an all barley last night. Ill do a second run and bring it to 60 for macerating genever herbs, And I have lots of feints of assorted varieties Ill blend and run a couple more times to clean them up for the absinthe base, Some are fruit based or panela based, is that alright? I guess if run enough neutral is neutral right? haha, I figured that out all by myself, pretty smart eh.

Botanicals order is placed at Starwest, thanks Big R.

At this point I think I just hijacked Odins thread, sorry bud, Ill move these adventures to a dedicated thread when it gets rollin,

Cheers.

[Odin]

As long as you post about genever, no problems with me mate!


Odin.

[Jimbo]

Ive been studying your 'Forgotten Drink' thread. Good stuff Odin! Lots of questions. Biggest one, for now, is I cannot distill on the grain. I run a potstill with a a propane burner, them grains will settle and scorch on the bottom. And since my Barley AG is not a true Korenwijn, its more a Gerstwijn? Frustrating these things that are blocking me from making a true jenever

[Odin]

No problemo. Yes, distilling on the grain will get you over more taste. But you can take the first step and already arrive half way there: at least ferment on the grain.

A Barley wine as a base is no problem. First grain based genever was made from all malted barley. And then it was found out that you only need like 30% of malted grains in the grains bill, and that bill shifted towards rye and malted barley or rye and corn and malted barley.

But in the city of Diemen (close to Amsterdam) in the 17th century, and later as well, a genever was made still based on the 100% malted barley recipe. A special treat. Only bought by the VOC for their most famed captains. Too much barley (as long as it is malted) is no problem: it will give you the maltwine taste you look for. And next time, maybe try a combo of rye and malted barley: spicier.

Odin.

[Jimbo]

No problemo. Yes, distilling on the grain will get you over more taste. But you can take the first step and already arrive half way there: at least ferment on the grain.

Odin.

Thanks to you and some of your earlier posts Odin, this I already do with ALL my whiskey ferments. Very happy with the flavors that come across fermenting on the grain. I cant keep the wine thief out of the all Wheat Malt whiskey barrel, honestly. Its so damn good, and its not even that old yet. Im gonna be sad if my wine thief taps the bottom of an empty barrel before I get any bottled. All barley and bourbon, same thing, it ferments bubblin through lots of groceries

[Jimbo]

Success Senior Odin, I am in possession of korenwijn! Last night I did the spirit run on my Barley AG. After pulling a couple quarts of hearts I stopped the still and loaded it up with feints from some Bourbon and All Wheat runs. After pulling heavy on the fores, I now have a good supply of barley/corn/wheat spirits.

[Odin]

Good for you! What will you next step be? I just picked up some freshly broken rye from the windmill one city away! Will try to update some pictures/movies later on.

Odin.

[Jimbo]

The hearts of that keeping for the malt wine. The rest I'll water down to 40 and rerun for neutral to macerate at 60. And also some to macerate absinthe at 80. I'll hit 80 with a 40 start.

[Odin]

So just looking at the genever ... you have your korenwijn ready. Now you will fractionate your feints into a neutral. That neutral you will use at 60% to macerate botanicals. That will give you an essence you can then add to the korenwijn, right?

If that's the approach, you could already start ageing your korenwijn on wood. 60% and American white oak (medium toast) make a good combination!

Odin.

[Jimbo]

Yes that is exactly my intent after reading your posts. Hope I got that right?

OK, I will start aging the korenwijn.

Following botanicals you posted in another thread. Any advice there?

[Odin]

Your approach is fine.

I posted quite a few herbs bills for genever. Can I ask you what herbs bill you want to come up with? Off course I will take a look at it.

Odin.

[Jimbo]

I have extremely little experience with genever. Its not a mixer for me I drink it straight as intended. Prefer malty and subtle on the flavors. Just enough to add interest and'twinkle' on the tongue, not be front and center. I'm still planning the bill. Any advice is appreciated. I'll run final plan by you before I macerate

[Bushman]

Glad to see you are getting this tour in place so that when I visit I will get the most out of it

[Jimbo]

Clarification. The macerated botanicals I will run again. And then add to the aged korenwijn

[Jimbo]

Bush let's go visit Odin!! I'm down!

[Odin]

Now that would be fun!

Odin.

[OverEducatedIdiot]

Alright ladies and gentlemen, below are the pictures from the Jenever museum in Schiedam. I don't have as much description to add as Odin likely will. Maybe there is a way the Mods could let him edit this afterwards.

This is my first time adding pictures so if it goes wrong, or I need to resize them just let me know.

More to come...

[OverEducatedIdiot]

Second Part...

Bar upstairs for sampling.

Labels

HUGE bottle (likely 3+ gallons??? Maybe?)

If only the airlines I flew had this selection.....

Small still upstairs

[OverEducatedIdiot]

More....

Various Botanicals for smelling (Odin can comment that not all are for Jenever)

Its a baby still.... Great for teaching children safe practices, right?

Collection of old bottles (earthenware?)

Just a little old pot head.... Around 3 feet tall if I remember right.

[OverEducatedIdiot]

More...

Bottles containing what I believe to be the various stages of production

Still Model

A larger picture of the model and the jars above. Who wouldn't want this in their office?

Assorted parts 1

Assorted parts 2

[OverEducatedIdiot]

More...

Filling station?

Bottle dryer

Filling table

Another picture of two of the 8 or so fermenting tanks. I believe these were getting mixed, ready for a first run when this was taken by my better half.

That's all she wrote folks. Sorry for the picture quality, these were large files to start with. Iphones are surprisingly good at taking pictures.

If anyone has any questions feel free to ask and I will do my best to make up an answer if Odin doesn't know it.

[Bushman]

Interesting lyne arm on that old pot still! Looks like an interesting tour with lots to see!

[Odin]

Okay, great pictures, OEI! I will comment on the first post you made, since the pictures there do not have a subscript. But to start ... it might be good to add that the museum is acutally one of the left over distilleries. So it is build like a warehouse with various floors. On the bottom floor, you will find the mashing and distilling and bottling department. On the second floor the herbs and bottles. On the third floor the grains ...

1: A wooden mash tun. Open. If you look in, you see the mash fermenting away.
2. The two stills. I didn't ask, but if I would guess, I would say maybe 10.000 liters each? Not sure. Coal fired, water cooled. Usually each "burnery" would have 3 potstills like that. Over 400 distillers in Schiedam up until a century ago.
3. Cooling water tun. You can already see one on the back of picture 2.
4. Barrels holding genever.
5. Cooling water.
6.The array of mash tuns. I think 10 in total.

Odin.

[Jimbo]

Great pictures, thanks OEI. REALLY making me want to burn some frequent flyer miles and go see Odin and spend a week in Holland. I gingerly floated it by the wife yesterday. She's accustomed to this sort of madness from me, did a fair bit of flying around with another hobby of mine. She just rolls her eyes now I bet May is beautiful in Holland eh Odin?