Home Distiller

+1 on electric. Do you know what ADD is in moonshining terms? I does not mean attention deficit disorder it means Accidental Death or Dismemberment.

Ethanol vapour is heavier than air, so if it comes out of your still, it flows down the column right into the fire, where it ignites and sets on fire the vapour coming out of the top of the still. The amount of ethanol vapour coming out is more than you would think. One day, I intentionally set afire the vapour coming out of my pot still, just to see what kind of danger I was facing. The still had 2kW going into it with a 10%ABV charge, so the vapour was about 55%ABV. A flame about two feet long came out of the 1/2 inch inner tube of the Liebig. It was not a wimpy flame either, but a forceful flame-thrower scary monster. A reflux still charged with 30%ABV low wines will be producing almost pure azeotrope vapour. The reflux condenser is the only thing preventing it from escaping.

Again, consider the use of a flow switch. The number one danger in distilling is vapours escaping from your still. The most probable reason for their escaping is loss of coolant. So the most basic safety device is a coolant flow detector and power cutoff in event of loss of coolant.

M

Yes it sinks. Alcohol vapor specific gravity is 1.6 (air is 1). Carbon dioxide is also heavier than air, it will form a layer over your mash if undisturbed by air movement. Water vapor is lighter than air (thats why it rains from above not below,...wouldnt that be cool.).

The heat required for stripping runs is more than during the spirit run. I use Propane as well, and during my first spirit run I heard gurgling, and I also noticed the boiler and column was rocking ever so slightly (my burner doesn't sit perfectly flat on the concrete). After a little bit of this, I started getting liquid out of the top of my column (I guess you would call that puking). I have a LM offset (nixon/stone). So I learned that when you're doing a spirit run on 40%, you need less heat to maintain the boil. I've read a number of books, and I've read a ton on here, even the instructions on how to run an LM still in the new distiller reading lounge, and I never saw anywhere where it was stated that you MUST use less heat during your spirit run than you do during your stripping run or you risk boiling over. It just says that you CAN turn your heat down once you boil, but doesn't mention the difference between stripping and spirit.

I run mine outside on the open patio, hose nearby, but now I will also bring the extinguisher out there too. I'm glad it all turned out well for you.

Does anyone know where the numbers are that state that electric actually costs less to run than propane? On a single $16 tank, I did 2 cleaning run, and 5+ stripping runs. Most of the stripping runs were 2 to 3 hours, or even more. So I can run for about 18 hours on a single $16 tank. Does anyone know how much it would cost to run electric burners for 18 hours? If it's a lot cheaper, I'm switching to electric.

About $0.12 per kilowatt-hour So a 2200 watt electric rig running balls out will cost you about 26 cents an hour. Or $4.75 for them 18 hours.

wildernessmedic wrote:Now i'm not calling anyone here a liar but does everyone really sit within arms reach of it staring at it not taking their eyes off for a second?

I mean if that's what's needed to maintain safety consider it done, but that even puts sitting in front of it reading a book out of the question...

Yes. I do read, but I am in the exact same location as the still, within several feet at all times. Almost any problem will be alerted to you through a change in the sound of the run. I think sound was the first thing that informed you.

H.

I ain't sayin I don't take my eyes off for a second,,,,,but I sit (and stand) right there with it.

Maritimer wrote:Ethanol vapour is heavier than air, so if it comes out of your still, it flows down the column right into the fire, where it ignites and sets on fire the vapour coming out of the top of the still. mount of ethanol
M

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, now that has got me to thinking as I run propane. Wondering if a gentle breeze provided by a fan may be a safety benefit to move the vapors away from the heat source.


FMH.

I can see my running still at all times... I am never more than 10 feet away, in the same room... Most of the run I am within 4 feet of the still so it would take less than a second to shut the heat off... There is a charged line within reach as well as a container filled with water and a wet rag... I've never had an accident yet still use due diligence during every run because the odds are against me considering the number of uneventful runs I've done over the years... I've been known to piss into a container and would shut down if I were to ever need to take a dump... I guess you could say that I do, in fact, practice what I preach...

FreeMountainHermit wrote:Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, now that has got me to thinking as I run propane. Wondering if a gentle breeze provided by a fan may be a safety benefit to move the vapors away from the heat source.

If there are vapours either you have a leak somewhere or the condenser is overburdened or the coolant has stopped flowing. But there shouldn't be any vapours. When I first started distilling, I was wondering whey I could smell the ethanol. When I disassembled my still (which is insulated with 2" thick blue foam insulation) I found that there was a volume of the foam that had been melted away by a pinhole leak. If I were to smell vapour now, I'd immediately shut everything down.

But I do have to leave my still unattended now and then, and I return urgently. That's what motivated the flow switch. If WM had had a flow switch he could have posted a thread on how he didn't almost burn his house down, whew!

Maybe my flow switch design is too hokey to be taken seriously. Yes, time to start a thread inviting HDs to brainstorm a low-cost, cool, manly flow switch.

M

There's a drain in the atrium where the still runs. Think I'll add a removable funnel urinal to it and try to remember to take it down afterwards (like the household supervisor would prefer). Would be funny if the grandkids figured it out, however...

My current setup I'm switching out collection jars fast enough I can't leave the still. I sit the chair up next to it. And if I need to take a piss break. The better half takes over.

I at times smell the mash when I'm distilling? Does that mean I definitely have a leak?

Theoretically, if you have a closed system (which ours is not, I know), and you had a raging boil going on, and all of the steam hit a cool enough surface to condense them back to a liquid, then you would never have an increase in pressure. Or at least the increase would only be as high as the expansion of the coolest liquid. I guess this would be like any closed loop system containing steam, such as a closed steam heat source for a still, or a steam turbine, the cooling system in your car, etc.

That would also mean that once the still is up to a full boil, and your condenser was knocking down everything, then you should be able to cap it off and make it a closed system, and it would not build up pressure. Of course I'm not suggesting this.

So does that mean if I have no leaks, then I shouldn't smell anything at all when I'm running the still? Nothing, not even the mash, zero smell? And if I smell anything at all, then that means I have a leak? This would not include anything I spilled on the boiler when I filled it, but that would be gone very quickly.

No you will smell it. You have to look for leaks. A mirror does a food job. If you pass it by a leak. It will fog.

Hi aaa,

Ethanol vapour has a definite smell, and a cool sensation in the nose. There is a smell when distilling, for sure, but ethanol vapour should not be in the bouquet. The amount that evaporates from the distillate is negligible compared to what my pinhole leak produced. (My distillate is cold because I run a VM; if the distillate were hot maybe there would be more evaporation).

There must be pressure gradients within the still because there is moving vapour. I like to think of the condenser as an exhaust sink. There is a stream of vapour coming into the condenser where it suddenly turns into liquid, so its volume has basically disappeared. It would be an interesting exercise to figure out the pressures within a closed still. If the condenser is knocking down all the vapour, its energy is removed in the coolant. If the vapour builds up pressure, there would be more vapour for the condenser to knock down, which would lower the pressure. Sounds like it should reach a steady state without exploding.

M

A pinhole leak is one thing but flooding high proof alcohol out the top of the column due to choking in the structured packing is yet another... A flow switch wouldn't detect anything until the overflow of high proof alcohol had already ignited and eventually burned the hoses, at which point a lot of other things in the surrounding area would be burning...

I monitor the outflow of coolant for temperature and flow... If the temperature rises I check everything instinctively and increase the flow rate if needed... I don't need high tech equipment that could falter or fail... I even go so far as to put my finger in the cooling water just to second guess the thermometer... You have to be right at the still to do that which means no possibility of wandering off and getting distracted...

Damn it WM! There is MUCH about that on here. Go find it. You may just stumble across something else you need. Yes, go a head, call me an asshole, dont hurt my feelings none I do that for a living. Shouldnt hurt yours either to be given good advice. Now go look that up.
Ga Flatwoods

All I can say is if you can breath though it, it depends on how hard you breath.
I could breath through mine but my still could not!

I will add that if you ever change the density of your packing, watch it like a hawk!
Flooding on a boka or an offset can be a hazard. We are not talking about ruining a run, we are talking about starting a fire that can do much damage.

wildernessmedic wrote:

ga flatwoods wrote:call me an asshole
Ga Flatwoods

Asshole.

Just gotta laugh at that Ga, You ask for it!

Gotta go with flatwoods here. Honest approach, honest answer.

LOL! if i didnt give a shite I wouldnt answer at all like the rest who didnt Richard/WM. Silence is golden it is said. Mine is rolled loosely just enough to stay in the tube of its own friction. Hose pressure while squirting will move it when cleaning, if desired.
GA Flatwoods

wildernessmedic wrote:True. I was just kiddin. But. I don't like browsing trough a bunch of crap to find one answer someone can just take 5 seconds to type...I've used the search and it normally either says too many similar results or bring up pages o the wrong thing. I remember reading about it. Don't pack too tight. Not too loose. Very broad there.

use the HD google search:
- button top left of the top right bar
or here:
http://www.google.com/search?rls=en-us& ... 8&oe=UTF-8


Just add your key words after the string that is already in there

I have been using google for years to search sites by using the "site:<site domain name>" right on the google page

I also use it to find things from different countries
say I look for something from Poland I would use "site:pl"

really helpful feature

Try the Google Toolbar, too. It has a whole bunch of features, including spell-check and translate, search for images, search site, autofill, etc. Also try Google Desktop, which will search your hard drive as though it were a Google site. You won't believe what you'll find on your hard drive.

M

wildernessmedic wrote:True. I was just kiddin. But. I don't like browsing trough a bunch of crap to find one answer someone can just take 5 seconds to type...I've used the search and it normally either says too many similar results or bring up pages o the wrong thing. I remember reading about it. Don't pack too tight. Not too loose. Very broad there.

And somehow you have managed to start a thread about every noob question there is. Or asked them in one of your threads. That with simple searching would have found you the answers to all your questions. And more. You have racked your thread and post counts up. And still have a ton to learn. Because you are only getting spoon fed specific info. While if you had done the suggested research. You would be learning so much more. And possibly not almost burned your house down.

Think about it. You have a 7 page thread. About electric heating. Most all of your questions could have been answered by reading 7 pages of the heat controller thread. And there would be one less thread popping up in a search for the next noob coming along. So you just created crap others will have to wade through.

At some point you have to search through all the crap. Otherwise you will just keep asking simple question and only getting simple answers. Leaving you with more questions. That have all been answered over and over again.

You don't have to call me an asshole. I already know I am one.

wildernessmedic wrote:Wow cool thanks. So you enter it like that and any page will work?

just try on a few sites and find out

but the spoon feeding answer is yes,
if the site has not blocked the google bots that is

Most all of your questions could have been answered by reading 7 pages of the heat controller thread.

I have a couple of questions about the amount of heat to use. I used the Google search looking for "the heat controller thread" and I got a few hits:
"Electric Heat Control Questions" - 1 page long
"What kind of heating control should I use?" - 4 pages long
"Question about heating element controller" - 2 pages long

I can't find one that is 7 pages long and none of the ones I found talk about the amount of heat and how to determine how much to use.

I'm using Propane and find it difficult to measure the amount of heat energy that I am producing other than making marks on the dial and observing results. I can see where using electric has a definite advantage because you can use the wattage of your heating elements, a variable power source, and a current meter to determine the exact amount of energy you are delivering. When using propane, you can only apply an amount of heat and watch to see what happens. If you never reach your target temp, then you need to add more heat. If all of a sudden your column starts puking and boiling over, then you cut it back. But then, if you cut it back too much, then your heat drops too much, then back and forth, back and forth.

Has anyone tried using a gas flow meter (like you see on Tig welders)? I like being able to calculate the amount of heat energy I'll need, and then being able to at least know I'm in the ballpark without so much trial and error. When you're producing a flammable substance, using an open flame, it would be nice not to use the trial and error method.

rad14701 wrote:A pinhole leak is one thing but flooding high proof alcohol out the top of the column due to choking in the structured packing is yet another... A flow switch wouldn't detect anything until the overflow of high proof alcohol had already ignited and eventually burned the hoses, at which point a lot of other things in the surrounding area would be burning...

I monitor the outflow of coolant for temperature and flow... If the temperature rises I check everything instinctively and increase the flow rate if needed... I don't need high tech equipment that could falter or fail... I even go so far as to put my finger in the cooling water just to second guess the thermometer... You have to be right at the still to do that which means no possibility of wandering off and getting distracted...

Well yes, a flow switch senses flow. Losing coolant flow is not really all that common, but having a device to counter it gives one a little reassurance.

What is the mechanism of flooding? Is it something that can occur out of the blue in a still that has been operated in the same way many times before? What would be the signature of a flooding still? Obviously, overflowing liquid. Excessive coolant temperature? What are the precursor symptoms, what happens just before disaster?

Thanks for calling this http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p7099554 high-tech!

M

I also agree that you ask a lot of questions that with just a little searching you could find the answers to on your own. Why this isn't a good thing is that you aren't getting a well rounded education here. Just an education on specific questions. What happens when people are spoon fed it never ends. People here are trying to teach you to be a fisherman so you can feed yourself instead of someone having to feed you a few fish a day. When you take the time to do research , which I know can take time, you will find more answers to other questions you didn't know you had or if nothing else a more in depth understanding of the knowledge you seek. That's why everyone is so animate about read read and read some more. Then when you have a question read somemore. You got to get off your mama's tit sooner or later.

drinkingdog wrote:I also agree that you ask a lot of questions that with just a little searching you could find the answers to on your own. Why this isn't a good thing is that you aren't getting a well rounded education here. Just an education on specific questions. What happens when people are spoon fed it never ends. People here are trying to teach you to be a fisherman so you can feed yourself instead of someone having to feed you a few fish a day. When you take the time to do research , which I know can take time, you will find more answers to other questions you didn't know you had or if nothing else a more in depth understanding of the knowledge you seek. That's why everyone is so animate about read read and read some more. Then when you have a question read somemore. You got to get off your mama's tit sooner or later.

+1

And to play with that good analogy a little longer. There are schools of fish just under the surface, you can put the mask on and check them out, in context, collectively. Or we can throw you one or 2 a day. But it doesnt show you the big picture. And they start to stink up the place after a bit. Put the mask on and dive in.

Edit: To your post. "i'd like to not have to spend the majority of my time wading through crap." But youre generating MORE crap. Get it? Ironic no?