MY SUPER SIMPLE CONTROLLER

[likker liker]

I got it together and heated up some water. Very happy with the way everything. Very happy with the controller. Thanks Cranky

[S-Cackalacky]

So the box was all sorted out now I needed to connect to the heating element. That was simple enough since I am running 220. There are 2 screws on the heating element, both of them are for hot wires. For the Neutral/ground wire I made some copper washers to go under the head of the heating element to connect a grounding wire to as well as to ground the box that covers and protects the element. I also soldered a grounding lug to the small kettle to attach a ground wire to and drilled a hole in the skirt of the boiler for the same purpose. I connected a grounding wire to these and added a grounding lug to the box over the element and connected the neutral to that as well.

Cranky, I'm a little more than confused by this. I'll be upgrading from 120V to 240V in the near future. My dryer outlet is a 3 wire receptacle. In one of the photo illustrations associated with the above quote, you have one of the 3 prongs on a plug labeled as neutral. So, which is it on the dryer receptacle? Is the third wire neutral, or is it a ground? Aren't they two different things? I've always thought that a neutral was only available with a 4 wire configuration.

[likker liker]

So the box was all sorted out now I needed to connect to the heating element. That was simple enough since I am running 220. There are 2 screws on the heating element, both of them are for hot wires. For the Neutral/ground wire I made some copper washers to go under the head of the heating element to connect a grounding wire to as well as to ground the box that covers and protects the element. I also soldered a grounding lug to the small kettle to attach a ground wire to and drilled a hole in the skirt of the boiler for the same purpose. I connected a grounding wire to these and added a grounding lug to the box over the element and connected the neutral to that as well.

Cranky, I'm a little more than confused by this. I'll be upgrading from 120V to 240V in the near future. My dryer outlet is a 3 wire receptacle. In one of the photo illustrations associated with the above quote, you have one of the 3 prongs on a plug labeled as neutral. So, which is it on the dryer receptacle? Is the third wire neutral, or is it a ground? Aren't they two different things? I've always thought that a neutral was only available with a 4 wire configuration.

I'm not an elections but I've done quite a bit of it.
A neutral and ground kinda are the same, both go to earth. They are keeped separate for different reasons. Mostly safety. so that the user dose not become the ground.

[bearriver]

Cranky is using 3 prongs on 240. That's 2 hots and a ground. No neutral.

Neutral is the grounded conductor and ground is the grounding conductor. Never should the two cross outside the breaker box.

Ground shouldn't be carrying a load unless there is a problem, such as a short. This directs the current away from where we don't want it, such as a person.

Neutral may carry a current in normal operation such as with many 110 applications, while being grounded.

[Euphoria]

As opposed to 120 vac power, the quick explanation of the differences found in 240 vac, such as are found in standard house current, and often found supplying larger appliances which use straight 240 vac current, (that may also have three wires, but newer installations require a 4-wire setup):

240 vac circuits have:
1) A black wire which is often known as the "hot" wire, which carries the current in to the fixture.
2) Another "hot" wire which may be blue, red or another color other than green or white (if it is white the code actually requires it to painted or otherwise marked one of the other colors, but often it is not) which also carries current in to the supply outlet fixture.
3) A bare copper wire called the ground, the sole function of which is to enhance user safety.


That's it, no neutral. Now, if you are paying attention, then you are probably wondering "If there isn't a neutral wire then how is the circuit completed?" The answer is that when one hot wire is negative, then the other is positive, so the two hot wires complete the circuit together because they are "out of phase". Hence, the term "alternating current". Even in 120 volt circuits, the power literally changes direction 60 time a second, or in other words, "60 cycle" power.


This is why all 240 vac circuits connect to double pole breakers that are essentially two single pole breakers tied together. In the main panel, every other breaker is out of phase with the adjoining breakers. So, in essence 240 volt wiring is powered by 2 - 120 volt hot wires that are 180 degrees out of phase.

At one time, the code allowed for one insulated wire to function as both ground and neutral in 120 / 240 volt combo circuits, but now all such 240 vac circuits must use the 4 wire scheme.

[S-Cackalacky]

Thanks for straightening my dumb ass out. Never did buy that "Electricity for Dumbies" book.

[cranky]

What the others said is true, I have a tenancy to incorrectly use the two terms interchangeably . Since I use a 3 prong system, because that's what I had and that's what my extension cords are, on my setup it is indeed a ground since it doesn't return electricity back to the electric company unless there is a short circuit. This is why I use a separate extension cord for my wall wart for the fan. If I had a 4 prong into the box like BR I would be able to keep the transformer for the fan inside the box.

[cranky]

2015-05-22 19.14.02.jpg

I got it together and heated up some water. Very happy with the way everything. Very happy with the controller. Thanks Cranky

Very nice but I have a question, on the wires for the volt meter it looks like you ran one to one of the hots and one to ground. Does your volt meter indicate 120V instead of 240V? Also I don't see a cooling fan which will extend the life of the SSR.

[likker liker]

2015-05-22 19.14.02.jpg

I got it together and heated up some water. Very happy with the way everything. Very happy with the controller. Thanks Cranky

Very nice but I have a question, on the wires for the volt meter it looks like you ran one to one of the hots and one to ground. Does your volt meter indicate 120V instead of 240V? Also I don't see a cooling fan which will extend the life of the SSR.

Ya, can't find the fan I know I have. Looks like I'll be buying one.
Yep, need to run the other hot wire thru it also. It could not have been me, it must have been the vodka tonics I was drinking.
I also have one more controller too install also. Hope to have that done by tomorrow morning. I'm really happy with the way everything works. I didn't measures how much water, must have been about 20 gl. Every 10 minutes water temperature increased by 10 degrees.

[cranky]

2015-05-22 19.14.02.jpg

I got it together and heated up some water. Very happy with the way everything. Very happy with the controller. Thanks Cranky

Very nice but I have a question, on the wires for the volt meter it looks like you ran one to one of the hots and one to ground. Does your volt meter indicate 120V instead of 240V? Also I don't see a cooling fan which will extend the life of the SSR.

Ya, can't find the fan I know I have. Looks like I'll be buying one.
Yep, need to run the other hot wire thru it also. It could not have been me, it must have been the vodka tonics I was drinking.
I also have one more controller too install also. Hope to have that done by tomorrow morning. I'm really happy with the way everything works. I didn't measures how much water, must have been about 20 gl. Every 10 minutes water temperature increased by 10 degrees.

I know mine with the 5500W element heats 12-13 gallons of water to boiling in under 40 minutes and the 3500W in the 4 gallon can get it up to boiling in about 10. You are in Wa. If there is a Fry's anywhere near you but they usually have fans pretty cheap. A week or two ago they had one for $3 but I don't see it this week, They have thermal paste too, some people say the thermal paste is a bit lacking on the SSR but I haven't had any problems.

[likker liker]

2015-05-22 19.14.02.jpg

I got it together and heated up some water. Very happy with the way everything. Very happy with the controller. Thanks Cranky

Very nice but I have a question, on the wires for the volt meter it looks like you ran one to one of the hots and one to ground. Does your volt meter indicate 120V instead of 240V? Also I don't see a cooling fan which will extend the life of the SSR.

Ya, can't find the fan I know I have. Looks like I'll be buying one.
Yep, need to run the other hot wire thru it also. It could not have been me, it must have been the vodka tonics I was drinking.
I also have one more controller too install also. Hope to have that done by tomorrow morning. I'm really happy with the way everything works. I didn't measures how much water, must have been about 20 gl. Every 10 minutes water temperature increased by 10 degrees.

I know mine with the 5500W element heats 12-13 gallons of water to boiling in under 40 minutes and the 3500W in the 4 gallon can get it up to boiling in about 10. You are in Wa. If there is a Fry's anywhere near you but they usually have fans pretty cheap. A week or two ago they had one for $3 but I don't see it this week, They have thermal paste too, some people say the thermal paste is a bit lacking on the SSR but I haven't had any problems.

Thanks for the help. Over here there isn't a Fry's. I had some time to make a quick run to the local computer shop here and it was closed for the holiday, that's my luck
I'll look into the paste on the SSR thanks for the info.

And a bit for good news, a friend that got my first 3 keg brew system of 20 years ago. It will be coming back to me. I will be making some changes. Converting from NG to Cranky's controller

[cranky]

Always glad to help.

[cranky]

I've just been made aware of a potential problem with how my meter is wired. Hound Dog ran into a problem with his which he documents in this thread
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 85&t=56032
Some of the electrical experts advised to make sure you wire the power wires to the meter come from the upstream side of the SSR rather than the downstream side like I have mine wired. I am debating switching my wires around to see if it indicates differently or buying a backup meter to keep on hand in case of a meltdown and just seeing for myself how things turn out. I just thought it was a good idea to alert anybody who may read this to the new development.

[likker liker]

I've just been made aware of a potential problem with how my meter is wired. Hound Dog ran into a problem with his which he documents in this thread
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 85&t=56032
Some of the electrical experts advised to make sure you wire the power wires to the meter come from the upstream side of the SSR rather than the downstream side like I have mine wired. I am debating switching my wires around to see if it indicates differently or buying a backup meter to keep on hand in case of a meltdown and just seeing for myself how things turn out. I just thought it was a good idea to alert anybody who may read this to the new development.

After reading hound dog post again, and again, I will switch the wire to the input side of the SSR. I'm thinking that I really don't need to know the output voltage Of the SSR. I would rather not have a melt down, in the middle of using it. Thanks for keeping everyone up to date on this

[likker liker]

The attachment 2015-05-22 19.14.02.jpg is no longer available

I got it together and heated up some water. Very happy with the way everything. Very happy with the controller. Thanks Cranky

Very nice but I have a question, on the wires for the volt meter it looks like you ran one to one of the hots and one to ground. Does your volt meter indicate 120V instead of 240V? Also I don't see a cooling fan which will extend the life of the SSR.

Ya, can't find the fan I know I have. Looks like I'll be buying one.
Yep, need to run the other hot wire thru it also. It could not have been me, it must have been the vodka tonics I was drinking.
I also have one more controller too install also. Hope to have that done by tomorrow morning. I'm really happy with the way everything works. I didn't measures how much water, must have been about 20 gl. Every 10 minutes water temperature increased by 10 degrees.

I know mine with the 5500W element heats 12-13 gallons of water to boiling in under 40 minutes and the 3500W in the 4 gallon can get it up to boiling in about 10. You are in Wa. If there is a Fry's anywhere near you but they usually have fans pretty cheap. A week or two ago they had one for $3 but I don't see it this week, They have thermal paste too, some people say the thermal paste is a bit lacking on the SSR but I haven't had any problems.

GREAT! call,,, no thermal paste none at all, both were that way..compleatly dry. They would have burned up in no time.

[likker liker]

[cranky]

Glad I could help likker liker
The whole point of this thread is to help others and when I make a change or find a problem I want everybody to be aware so they won't make any of the same mistakes. For my own controller I believe I will leave the wires hooked up on the downstream side of the SSR for curiosities sake. I believe the theory that the lower voltage is what caused the overheating and would like to see for myself. I will make sure I don't run the voltage below the minimum 80V and see how it stands up and report back in the event of a meltdown.

[likker liker]

It's really amazing to how low voltage can heat things up so much. Just like the old starter relays that would weld together because of low voltage.
Well if things work out I'll be doing a test run tonight. I believe I've got my controller done and it's time to start using it.

[cranky]

It's really amazing to how low voltage can heat things up so much. Just like the old starter relays that would weld together because of low voltage.
Well if things work out I'll be doing a test run tonight. I believe I've got my controller done and it's time to start using it.

That is a really good looking controller likker liker I like that you didn't repaint it and left the writing. Very neat and organized too. I hope it works as well for you as mine does for me. I do recommend on/off switches since the SSR doesn't completely shut off the power.

[likker liker]

Thanks, I also like the paint with the writing. I will paint the side boxes.
I'm having a debate going on in my head (those voices talking to me again) about the on off switch or switches. One master on off or one for each SSR.
I was able to do a test run tonight, could not be happier it's everything I'd hoped for.

[Hound Dog]

I am thinking of getting this meter,http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00SWN7P32/ref ... 9R3F5M2LP9 , and putting it on the downstream side of the SSR since it reads from 12v-380v and hooking the 80v meter up to the input side as Edwin suggested. It may be worth the $10 to find out if this will work. Might be a bit of overkill to have both input and output voltage along with amperage but until I get used to running electric any info will be useful.

[cranky]

Thanks, I also like the paint with the writing. I will paint the side boxes.
I'm having a debate going on in my head (those voices talking to me again) about the on off switch or switches. One master on off or one for each SSR.
I was able to do a test run tonight, could not be happier it's everything I'd hoped for.

My vote is one for each since you have room on your panel but a single switch might look cleaner. Maybe a couple of those jet fighter type covered switches if you can find some.

[cranky]

I am thinking of getting this meter,http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00SWN7P32/ref ... 9R3F5M2LP9 , and putting it on the downstream side of the SSR since it reads from 12v-380v and hooking the 80v meter up to the input side as Edwin suggested. It may be worth the $10 to find out if this will work. Might be a bit of overkill to have both input and output voltage along with amperage but until I get used to running electric any info will be useful.

That would actually be some interesting information Hound Dog but if what I think the others were saying is true it would smoke too. I do understand that we probably don't need the regulated volts in to interpret whats happening but I like knowing the regulated voltage out. I like the idea of having the voltage in and out and the amperage but don't you think having red, green AND yellow meters on the same panel might be a bit gaudy?

[likker liker]

Thanks, I also like the paint with the writing. I will paint the side boxes.
I'm having a debate going on in my head (those voices talking to me again) about the on off switch or switches. One master on off or one for each SSR.
I was able to do a test run tonight, could not be happier it's everything I'd hoped for.

My vote is one for each since you have room on your panel but a single switch might look cleaner. Maybe a couple of those jet fighter type covered switches if you can find some.

that type of switch was not on my radar at all. But thats easy I have them. I use them in the car I build .I still like the idea of a master on off switch.

[cranky]

Thanks, I also like the paint with the writing. I will paint the side boxes.
I'm having a debate going on in my head (those voices talking to me again) about the on off switch or switches. One master on off or one for each SSR.
I was able to do a test run tonight, could not be happier it's everything I'd hoped for.

My vote is one for each since you have room on your panel but a single switch might look cleaner. Maybe a couple of those jet fighter type covered switches if you can find some.

that type of switch was not on my radar at all. But thats easy I have them. I use them in the car I build .I still like the idea of a master on off switch.

I thought about that because it would match the red of the box but I don't know if they make them big enough to handle the kind of voltage/amps we throw at these controllers. Mine is just a simple 2 pole 30 amp switch from Home Depot.

[likker liker]

That's too bad I like the idea. I could use a relay to a 30 amp switch. maybe

[cranky]

That's too bad I like the idea. I could use a relay to a 30 amp switch. maybe

I was thinking the same thing but didn't want to suggest over complicating things

[Hound Dog]

Mine is just a simple 2 pole 30 amp switch from Home Depot.

So you just kill the power to one hot leg? I guess that breaks the circuit but if you touch it there's still 120v hitting you right?

As for the different colors of meters, it will add a festive feel to it! Like how they use Christmas lights for everything in the Carribean.

[cranky]

Mine is just a simple 2 pole 30 amp switch from Home Depot.

So you just kill the power to one hot leg? I guess that breaks the circuit but if you touch it there's still 120v hitting you right?

Dual pole, single throw, it kills both sides so no hot wires after the switch. I also kill the breaker when not in use for an extended period of time because my extension cord has a little red LED that annoys me.

As for the different colors of meters, it will add a festive feel to it! Like how they use Christmas lights for everything in the Carribean.

I like it festive should be gaudy, maybe add some Christmas lights around it too

[likker liker]

Mine is just a simple 2 pole 30 amp switch from Home Depot.

So you just kill the power to one hot leg? I guess that breaks the circuit but if you touch it there's still 120v hitting you right?

Dual pole, single throw, it kills both sides so no hot wires after the switch. I also kill the breaker when not in use for an extended period of time because my extension cord has a little red LED that annoys me.

As for the different colors of meters, it will add a festive feel to it! Like how they use Christmas lights for everything in the Carribean.

I like it festive should be gaudy, maybe add some Christmas lights around it too

Little red led is annoying but more (like Christmas lights ) and the felling of electricity is festive.