intentionally infecting a ferment

[moosemilk]

Has anybody tried infecting backset other than with rum (dunder pit)? I had some backset I suspect had a lacto infection awhile back. I had no other backset so figured why not. I boiled a gallon with 5 gallons water (I do 6 gallon ferments....5 imperial gallons) and dropped in 11lbs corn for a booners (backset was from booners). Booners protocol as per usual.

Fermented out well, had a potential of just over 8% abv. Ended up at under 1.000 SG.

Ran it. The hearts were amazing. My yield was same. Flavors I don't typically get. There was a nice grainy type flavor there right off the spout.

So I've been thinking, some add a lacto infection to ferment. Well why not use infected backset? Would it not be easier to control and get more consistency this way instead of an active lacto during fermentation? Just thoughts.

I have a bucket with some backset and it appears to have taken on a lacto infection. Pic attached because I am still not familiar with many infections, only had what was very mild. Going to try to reproduce my backset experience.

[pulsetech]

When you boiled it you killed the infection which in a way is good because you controlled the amount. i wonder how much you need each batch ?

[moosemilk]

When you boiled it you killed the infection which in a way is good because you controlled the amount. i wonder how much you need each batch ?

That's what I was going after. Kill the infection, but it has still provided some flavor in the backset. Varying amounts of infected backset would control how much flavor. It would mean adjusting pH levels, especially with booners where liquid enzymes are pH specific. My next batch I am going to keep the same to see if I can replicate. After that, I'll go more backset and see what happens to flavor. Of course adjusting pH for my sebamyl and sebstar.

[pulsetech]

I might start adding Yakult to my cooled backset so i get some controlled lacto. sounds like a fun experiment

[pulsetech]

24 hours after adding then yakult. ( lactobacilus casei)
Still some activity but the hydrometer is down to 1.000
looks like it will go pretty low. A little sour tasting compared to the other fermenter

[MDH]

Casei will definitely make it more sour, but as a distillate, you'll definitely get the mouthfeel and aroma you want.

[S-Cackalacky]

I'm in the midst of using cultured buttermilk to introduce a lactic culture into a ferment. I posted my notes from the experiment here - http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 11&t=56746 . Warning - it's a longish read.

[likker liker]

Looking forward to the read. I think I'll grab a drink first

[pulsetech]

48 hours after adding the yakult .
Much more activity on the surface. Big airy bubbles coming through a quite thin cap. Hydrometer down to .992 ish hard to tell down that deep. The PH is lower than the other fermenter so lactic acid is being created. Fermenter 1 now down to 4.2PH fermenter 2 is at 5 PH
Fermenter 2 Is done. FG is 1.000 and the cap has fallen.

[pulsetech]

72 hours on and much the same. No point in a photo. The smell has Changed and for the better. It's smells like freshly roasted corn with melted butter. It's really quite amazing. I'm going to cold crash it now and try and run it tomorrow.

[jedneck]

I did an enzyme cob mash last weekend. After the addition of the second enzyme I let the mash cool down on its own and let it set for two days to get infected. Had a very nice sour cheese smell when I pitched yeast. Ferment is going ripping along like a 20$ hooker on nickel night. I'll stop and spirit and compare to same mash with no infection.

[MDH]

I just finished treating a wine with cultivated oenococcus oeni. The characteristics are excellent! I think it would work well in rum if the rum is acidified with wine acids rather than citric.

[Drunken Unicorn]

PulseTech,

How did the distillate turn out? I'm about to start putting bacteria in my rum ferments and am intrigued by your use of Yakult.

Cheers,

Unicorn

[MichiganCornhusker]

Hey, jed, I'm sort of afraid I already know what you might say, but do you think I should use this somehow?

It's a bucket of corn malt and water that I forgot about and it's been sitting around for about 2 weeks in the open.

I'm guessing that it has already gone through a spontaneous fermentation, and that is a powerful lacto buildup on the surface. Sort of a corn malt "dunder pit".

I was thinking about grinding up the rest of my malt, maybe adding some raw corn and rye, and just dumping this whole bucket into it to see what I end up with.

If this sounds too reckless, please pull a madman back from the edge....

[jedneck]

Use it. I found a jug of rum backset the other week. It was hiding in the basement for a while( I haven't made rum in 2 1/2 years). It in a 5 gallon water jug with no lid. I'll try to get a pic later.

[firewater69]

that looks awesome! how's it taste?

[MichiganCornhusker]

that looks awesome! how's it taste?

Yikes! Smells like sour funk. Not gonna taste it.
Might have been saved by the bell. Just as I got the last of my grains all ground up to flour, my son stopped by and we went out for beers. Heading out of town tomorrow, so missed my window for making this funky cold medina.
I'll leave the bucket of lacto sit and ponder my courage to use it for a few more days.

My ground up corn malt, on the other hand, smells amazing. It was made up from several bags of corn malt, with varying degrees of modification from chit to 3/4" sprout. Much sweeter than my previous malts, all with longer sprouts. This stuff is different, without the grassy smell or taste.

Might do a 50/50 as an experiment. Do half of this with recognized yeast and rational ferment, and the other half with the lacto dumped in and left on its own, open to the world. Would be interesting to see how they compare.

[jedneck]

Throw a lid on that bucket and bring it to me.
Looked at my finder bucket. Only a few specks of mold and it smells musty. Gonna set it by the woodstove to see if it wakes up.

[MichiganCornhusker]

Throw a lid on that bucket and bring it to me.

You are a bad influence, Jed.
I am actually headed out that way soon and will, indeed, bring a bucket of this funk for you.
I can't think of a single person I'd rather share it with.

[jedneck]

I also have a ferment going that I'm trying to get a good funk infection going.
66% corn malt/34%rye. Along with the yeast I pitched a pint of sour cream. Its been fermenting for a week now, cap dropped and its sour BUT no visible signs of infection. Cap fell on day three. It will prolly be another week till I get to run it, if not longer. But it is tastey.

[BoomTown]

Youse guys is living dangerously!

A BAD infection IS possible. Good luck!

[Uncle Jesse]

I LOVE this thread.

Pushing the envelope, I'm all for it.

[Danespirit]

that looks awesome! how's it taste?

Yikes! Smells like sour funk. Not gonna taste it.
Might have been saved by the bell. Just as I got the last of my grains all ground up to flour, my son stopped by and we went out for beers. Heading out of town tomorrow, so missed my window for making this funky cold medina.
I'll leave the bucket of lacto sit and ponder my courage to use it for a few more days.

My ground up corn malt, on the other hand, smells amazing. It was made up from several bags of corn malt, with varying degrees of modification from chit to 3/4" sprout. Much sweeter than my previous malts, all with longer sprouts. This stuff is different, without the grassy smell or taste.

Might do a 50/50 as an experiment. Do half of this with recognized yeast and rational ferment, and the other half with the lacto dumped in and left on its own, open to the world. Would be interesting to see how they compare.

A 50/50 experiment sounds promissing..
Please share the outcome of that experiment...

[MichiganCornhusker]

I think I'll try this with your corn cob smoked whiskey, Jed.
I've got the corn malt and rye, just need to malt some wheat and smoke it when I get back.
Maybe a 20 gallon batch split in half, 10 gal controlled, 10 gal wild.

Fortes Fortuna Juvat!

[Jimbo]

Oh shit, when the boys break out the Latin you know its about to get interesting.

Here, hold my beer and watch this....

[jedneck]

infectis spicas spiritus
Embrace the infection or go buy monistat

[jedneck]

I think I'll try this with your corn cob smoked whiskey, Jed.
I've got the corn malt and rye, just need to malt some wheat and smoke it when I get back.
Maybe a 20 gallon batch split in half, 10 gal controlled, 10 gal wild.

Fortes Fortuna Juvat!

That should have enuf legs to it to compliment a funky ferment.

[jedneck]

WTF
I'm trying to infect a mash and nadda sign of infection yet. I added a pint of sour cream to it and even stored it in with a filthy wooden mash paddle and fermenting in an open top barrel. Taste good though. I bet a good dose of Michigan corn funk will geter dun.
Grain bill is 2/3 corn malt and 1/3 rye

[MichiganCornhusker]

Careful what you wish for, Jed, it's on it's way!

[jedneck]

Here is what it looms like. The white stuff is fat from the sour cream it was there before I pitched yeast.