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im very interested in what you guys are doing with the air cooling condensers .

since yours is a multiple condenser style condenser, is smearing going to be a concern? especially doing a spirit run.

so maybe the multi condenser for stripping and a single air cooled condenser like mason jar for spirit runs?

that question may have been brought up but I might I have missed it,

so yea? smearing?

The pictures don't show it but the 5 tubes that go into the input manifold were ground flush before the end caps were brazed on the manifold, so there's nowhere for liquid to pool. That was a pain in the ass.

Shouldn't be if there's no pooling.
If the take offs protrude into the header you might have a problem but otherwise the there's nowhere to for liquid to holdup.
Smearing would be when the lower BP (start of the run) is somehow allowed to mix with higher BP (later parts of the run).

edit - Sorry, posted at the same time

In the morning, I'll steal one of my wife's fans and figure out how to attach the air cooled condenser to it.
I've got several ideas running around in my head and haven't decided which one to use.
At this point I may need to do some prototyping using zip ties, bailing wire and plumbers tape.
The fan might be sitting upright or I might have the fan leaning back at an angle.
The fan/condenser will need something for support..
Might even hang it from the rafters with parachute cord.
That way I can play with hanging it at different angles.
The condenser will be connected to the still with flexible copper tubing used on hot water heaters.

Didn't get very much done, it's too damned hot outside.

If the air cooled product condenser works. I might build a air cooled reflux condenser.
Wish I could find finned tubing that had the fins vertical.
Thought about making some out of copper sheet until I remembered the last time I tried soldiering something like that.

shadylane wrote:If the air cooled product condenser works. I might build a air cooled reflux condenser.
Wish I could find finned tubing that had the fins vertical. Thought about making some out of copper sheet
until I remembered the last time I tried soldiering something like that.

Why would you need vertical fins? Seems like the horizontal fins would work just fine.

Also, for a reflux condenser, you could use the smaller computer fans, like I used, but use
some sort of speed control unit to control the air-flow over the fins so that you could control
the amount of reflux.

mason jar wrote:

shadylane wrote:If the air cooled product condenser works. I might build a air cooled reflux condenser.
Wish I could find finned tubing that had the fins vertical. Thought about making some out of copper sheet
until I remembered the last time I tried soldiering something like that.

Why would you need vertical fins? Seems like the horizontal fins would work just fine.

Also, for a reflux condenser, you could use the smaller computer fans, like I used, but use
some sort of speed control unit to control the air-flow over the fins so that you could control
the amount of reflux.

Your probably right, but the moonshine says to think out of the box and into the bottle.
Vertical fins would make the job of blowing air over them easier. Kinda like a liebig.

Condenser looks good, shady. Can't wait to hear how it works. You might want to invest in a radiator comb.

I've got a couple of radiator combs some were. I find one them every so often when I'm looking for something else.
Don't think a comb will work on these fins, their very stiff and spaced too far apart. I might straiten them by hand after I'm finished with the build. But if I do, Murfee's law says all the fins will get smashed.
Think I've figured out how to attach the condensers to the fan, It involves 2 homemade brackets and 10 hose clamps.
The brackets will be welded to the stand, hose clamped to the condenser and bolted to the fan.
If Ya can't wrap your head around that description, I'll have to post a picture when it's done.

@#$%&* Brackets are a mirror image of what they should have been.
I'll try again tomorrow.

Shady, Not sure if this is helpful (but right now it makes a LOT of sense to me)
If it is a mirror image than just use some epoxy and glue it to the mirror then turn it around...

Does that work..... SLAINTE !!!

Definitely wouldn't want to "glue it to the mirror"
That would have caused 7 years of bad luck when I threw the brackets into the scrap pile in an Irish rage.

shadylane wrote:@#$%&* Brackets are a mirror image of what they should have been.
I'll try again tomorrow.

Put it on the other side of the fan?

Brutal wrote:Put it on the other side of the fan?

Or put the fan upside down

Plan B
I built it simple and crude. Haven't soldered anything yet.
I'll be modifying the output manifold so I can get a jar under the condenser.
But before I do that, I'll connect it to the boiler and see how much it can condense.
I'm really looking forward to running a 4000 watt heater in my 100+ degree still house.
But come winter the heat will be welcomed.

If nothing else, it looks bad ass! Looking forward to results... Nice work.

To me it looks like a hogs ass sown up with a log chain, But that's normal for what I make.
The question is how good will it work ?
It will be tested running water with the air temp over 100F.
If it doesn't work good enough, it should be easy to add 4 more finned tubes.

Wondering if a shroud would help. Some kind of cut-out sheet that would force the air to all flow through the fins, not allowing any to go past the outside of them. Might work fine as-is, just a thought. Then again, 4 more elements would use up all the space.
Can any of you math guys tell us, percentage wise, how much better this might work with winter air flowing through compared to 100F ambient?

The info for each of the finned tubes said they would supply 330 BTU of heat per hour with 200f hot water.
That's not much info for the engineers on the forum but it's all I have for them.

MichiganCornhusker wrote: Can any of you math guys tell us, percentage wise, how much better this might work with winter air flowing through compared to 100F ambient?

100(175-50)/(175-100)=167% more better'er.
That is probably complete BS (I think it's a bit more complicated than that cause the density changes with temp).
What do you mean by better? Max power it could knock down?

Shady, That looks really good.. I am impressed...
Thanks for not taking MY advice and getting a mirror and epoxy..
I will be following this and can see some huge benefits to running this in the winter in the unheated stillhouse...

Carry On Brother...

By the time I'd read your suggestion about using a mirror and epoxy it was too late.
I'd already relieved the stress of failure with a 16 pound sledge hammer.

Looking great, Shady! I am looking forward to seeing what it will do.

One thought, the air is going to take the path of least resistance. Corn Husker's shroud idea makes alot of sense, also slipping strips of foam rubber, like the stuff to seal around window AC units, between your fin tubes and with a shroud or simpley sealing around the cooler will force all the air over your fins. You may be able to double your knock down power.

You may not need it in February, but trying to cool with 100 degree air will be a real test. I hope it works great without it, but it may help enough to avoid adding more tubes...Just Sayin'

I went back through Swag's RC Air Cooler thread and still_stirrin had provided this (thanks, SS):

"Convective heat transfer: q = hc A dT
where;
q = heat transferred per unit time (W)
A = heat transfer area of the surface (m2)
hc= convective heat transfer coefficient of the process (W/(m2K) or W/(m2oC))
dT = temperature difference between the surface and the bulk fluid (K or oC)

Whereas, the conductive heat transfer: q = k A dT / s
where;
q = heat transfer (W, J/s, Btu/s)
A = heat transfer area (m2, ft2)
k = thermal conductivity of the material (W/m K or W/m oC, Btu/(hr oF ft2/ft))
dT = temperature difference across the material (K or oC, oF)
s = material thickness (m, ft)"

While ShadyLane is enduring a sweaty dT=62C (100F)day this summer, I might set this rig up this winter and enjoy running it on a dT=100C day (32F).
All other things remaining equal, does that indicate the winter cooler would handle roughly 65% more boiler heat input than the summer cooler?
Just trying to get an idea of how much impact ambient temps have with these things.

MichiganCornhusker wrote:I went back through Swag's RC Air Cooler thread and still_stirrin had provided this (thanks, SS):

"Convective heat transfer: q = hc A dT
where;
q = heat transferred per unit time (W)
A = heat transfer area of the surface (m2)
hc= convective heat transfer coefficient of the process (W/(m2K) or W/(m2oC))
dT = temperature difference between the surface and the bulk fluid (K or oC)

Whereas, the conductive heat transfer: q = k A dT / s
where;
q = heat transfer (W, J/s, Btu/s)
A = heat transfer area (m2, ft2)
k = thermal conductivity of the material (W/m K or W/m oC, Btu/(hr oF ft2/ft))
dT = temperature difference across the material (K or oC, oF)
s = material thickness (m, ft)"

While ShadyLane is enduring a sweaty dT=62C (100F)day this summer, I might set this rig up this winter and enjoy running it on a dT=100C day (32F).
All other things remaining equal, does that indicate the winter cooler would handle roughly 65% more boiler heat input than the summer cooler?
Just trying to get an idea of how much impact ambient temps have with these things.

Delta T is the difference in temp between the two mediums. High minus low like my doggy sum. There's actually a bit more going on than what you put up. What are the fins made up of?

Delta T is the major variable. Watts input is the controllable variable... I am looking forward to seeing what this thing will do with 100 F ambient air.

We are dealing with conduction here. The fin material is represented by k and held constant. So q must be proportional to dT.

I think you've got the right equation, MCH, but your data is inflated. You're assuming T1=100C, but it will be lower cuz we are working with an ethanol solution. And T2=ambient, but it will reach a stable equilibrium somewhat hotter than that. So if we WAG T1=78C and T2 summer=50C and T2 winter=39C, then you get 39% more capacity in winter. Still a substantial gain, but I wouldn't bet my last dollar on the accuracy of those assumptions.

I think maybe.

Damn you, MCH, now you've got that stuck in my head.

You know, you might end up with T2 summer=75C and T2 winter=74C, for a seasonal improvement of 1.3%.

Now I gotta go buy a baseboard heater and rent a meat locker to find out. I can't afford this shit!

Looking good Shadylane...
That thing should be able to condense a lot of vapor.
I am curious on how your testrun turns out.