Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

[OzKev]

Has anyone done a comparison of white sugar vs dextrose on a wash like this?

[Saltbush Bill]

Dextrose is expensive and a waste of time. About the only people who will suggest that you use it are the homebrew shop owners who want to sell it to you.

[Yummyrum]

True that Salty .

[cayars]

I have, but not on this specific recipe but another sugar wash. It came out fine. However for most people it's expensive. I got a 50 pound bag from a baker at $35 so it wasn't too bad. I just wanted to try a batch using it to see if I was missing anything good. I wasn't.

I much prefer to just invert my normal cane sugar, which makes it easier on the yeast. I personally feel there is less "sugar bite" when it's inverted. No additional cost, just a bit of time to invert it.

If you want to try dextrose, try and get it from a restaurant supply store where it will likely be 1/2 the price of super market. A local bakery could order it for you as well since they order in bulk.

[Saltbush Bill]

I much prefer to just invert my normal cane sugar, which makes it easier on the yeast.

From what Ive read over the years , and from my own experience , inverting is pretty much a waste of time. Some searching through more than one forum and a few hundred different threads on those forums and on that subject should verify that for you.

[cayars]

I read all kinds of things with people on both sides of the debate. So I do several back to back tests on my own and see what I prefer. To me there is a difference in ferment as well as finished product. Inverted sugar batches have less "sugar bite" to them and are more pleasant to drink IMHO. I've been inverting sugar for more than a decade and certainly wouldn't do it if I didn't think it made a better product.

I think part of the problem in reading people's responses is that many don't ever actually invert the sugar properly and only partially invert a portion of the sugar which leaves a lot of sucrose which dominates flavor/off tastes IMHO.

Normal cane sugar is sucrose while inverted becomes glucose and fructose which are much easier for yeast to convert to alcohol.

Invert sugar is great to use for cooking as it's sweater, holds moisture better and doesn't form crystals (it's a good corn syrup substitute as well), is great for cocktails as well as using to back sweeten wines or even spirits, so I never mind having it on hand. You can also use the inverted sugar but with more heat after inverting to hit a hard crack and start to caramelize it and make anything from a golden syrup (great for pancakes and waffles - kind of like honey) to a dark caramelized syrup. I do this (several different darkness/shades) for Rum which adds a nice complexity and I use far less molasses (cheaper too).

But for vodka/neutral use, I'd suggest just trying two batches side by side and see for yourself, but make sure you are actually inverting the sugar properly using slow heat (no quick boil), using the correct amount of catalyst and hitting/holding the correct temp for the required 25 to 30 minutes. If you can't tell the difference using inverted sugar then so be it, you wasted a bit over a half hour to an hour trying something new.

PS I'd love to discuss opinions on this but maybe this isn't the best thread to do so in. Kind of already hi-jacked it a bit.

[The Baker]

If you are using sugar in a ferment:

Invert sugar does not need stirring into the ferment liquid (sugar is a pain to mix in);
You can add the invert sugar hot which helps raise the temperature to make the yeast happy.
(WARNING: let it cool enough to be safe to carry.)

So I like invert sugar. You can start the process before you set everything else up, east peasy.

Geoff

[CaptMorgan]

I just mixed up 8 gallons of.this mash. SOH and kids are very sensitive to some of my former ferments. Nobody even knows i have it going now. Results of previous batches have been excellent. I wish this recipie would get move to Tried & True. Looking forward to running this one off soon. The working from home order due to covid19 has given my lots of spare time to stock up.

[Big_D]

Put down another 50L batch if this on sunday. Following the recipe exactly, 1.060 OG it took off like a cut cat. Just checked it again today(Thursday) cap has dropped and reading 0.990 FG. Turned heat belt off to allow to clear up some before stripping tomorrow.
I was impressed by my first spirit run on this a month or so ago. My skills and equipment have improved since then, so am looking forward to getting the second batch stripped and doing the spirit run.

I highly recommend trying this recipe and strongly believe it should be added to Tried and True Recipes.

[brewing_brad]

Hi all,

After a 4 year hiatus, I'm back to distilling and back on the forum. After living in a small house in Melbourne where there was bugger-all room to do anything (hence the hiatus) my partner and I moved out of the city and onto a small property in North-West Tasmania where I have a WHOLE room dedicated to all my fermenting endeavors.

I thought I would give this recipe a go and I am impressed! After 24 hours it's bubbling like a mad-scientist's experiment. It almost looks like it's boiling. I've never seen anything like it. There is a slight sour smell coming from it though, is this normal? The OG was 1.080, so I'm hoping I'm not pushing the yeast too hard.

I'm really looking forward to running it through the still next weekend!

[bitter]

I just put one of these togther. I was out of wheat bran so used about 12kg of wheat (wheat is about 17% wheat bran) so hopefully get more wheat flavour in my vodka with covid-19 gotta sub stuff you have..

This was going nuts already in less than 30 minutes!!!!!

B

[bitter]

This finished today at .985 so 6 days for 190 L thats fast!!

B

[MartinCash]

This recipe produces a really similar flavour to Deathwish Wheat Germ, except the wheat germ is painful to boil, and sticks/boils over like crazy. It also helps that I had a brainfart and added 500 g of bran to a 25L batch, rather than ~250.

Dealing with bran seemed a fair bit easier.

[SGB]

Hello,
Can I substitute Quaker instant oatmeal for the all bran?

[MartinCash]

You don't want all bran, you want plain loose wheat bran from the health food isle. Down here it's cheap, $1-$2 for 500 g. Some of the advantages is it doesn't stick or turn to porridge, and it doesn't go rancid.

I don't know what effect you'll get from oatmeal (probably a thick porridge). I'd recommend sticking to the recipe for the first time at least.

[Teddysad]

Hello,
Can I substitute Quaker instant oatmeal for the all bran?

You can although as others have said. the recipe does not use all-bran. It will give totally different product with different flavours. The cooked wheat bran not only adds flavour, but also nutrients for the yeast and drops out very nicely at the end

[SGB]

Thank you, sorry about my all bran misunderstanding.
The reason I asked about the oatmeal is that around here it's the closest thing to wheat other that flour.
Because of my location ingredients are limited. Grains other than rice or corn are either impossible to find or very expensive at import shops. Mail order as well now is difficult as well as expensive. Yeasts such as Dady and Lalvin can cost upwards to $150 -200 and must order by mail only. Even cans of tomato paste is a long drive to find. And I've never seen Epsom salt anywhere.
This is why I've just been doing the sour corn mash with sugar tolerant bakers yeast.
But I have a friend who wants something without the corn flavor because he infuses it and I guess the corn conflicts with it.
I was going to try to do an all heads run from my UJSSM, but because I only have a simple pot still was informed it needed to be done only with reflux.
And basically if I want to do some sort of sugarhead recipe my ingredients list is limited and I want to research information a bit before I start some trial and error project.

Thank you very much everybody again for all your help!!

[MartinCash]

Oatmeal may make a decent product but it will be a starchy, gooey mess, and it won't be Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka... more like SGB's Oaty Vodka

[Yummyrum]

AB56C119-7E22-4F10-B006-64FD7392B62E.jpeg (43.42 KiB) Viewed 16705 times

SGB
If you are having trouble getting things , have you considered getting some wine yeast nutrient?

It has DAP , epsom salts B vitamins etc in it . No need to add any thing else ... just sugar and water .

[SGB]

Thanks! I'll look for that online.

[Yummyrum]

Thanks! I'll look for that online.

Just have a close look . Some are just DAP ... the ones you want have the other stuff as well . ... just say’n .

And while I’m de-railing this topic .. ...
Sorry
heres my Wheat-bran ready for the next batch .

[SGB]

This is the plant food I found but I no idea what it is. I'm still looking around.

[CoogeeBoy]

A quick question for Teddysad and others, my TFFV is going well, fizzing away solidly and SG is dropping but not as quick as I thought it would down to 1.05 from 1.07 after 3 days.
I have had temperature at around 23C.
What temperature did you all run your batches at?
I did see some references suggesting 22.5C but then saw some fermenting at 25C and higher.
Kind regards

[MartinCash]

A quick question for Teddysad and others, my TFFV is going well, fizzing away solidly and SG is dropping but not as quick as I thought it would down to 1.05 from 1.07 after 3 days.
I have had temperature at around 23C.
What temperature did you all run your batches at?
I did see some references suggesting 22.5C but then saw some fermenting at 25C and higher.
Kind regards

Depends on your yeast. Bakers yeast likes it close to 30 degrees, I usually ferment 30-35 C.

[CoogeeBoy]

Depends on your yeast. Bakers yeast likes it close to 30 degrees, I usually ferment 30-35 C.

Thank you, that is what I thought, that Bakers Yeast likes it hot! It made sense as some of my friends would let their bread sit in warm cars to rise.

[Teddysad]

Yes temperature and the yeast makes a difference. I tend to use Angel bakers as my standard and it likes temps of 25c up to 28c for the fastest ferment. Right now in a colder (ambient 18c to 20c) room it takes a few days more.

[Drexall]

Wow,

It's been a long time since this got a comment.

Thank you so much for this, just done my first run after watching a vid by Still Inn and it's definitely got the features of a high end vodka.

Both flavour and kick.

Worked out at about a quid for 70cl of 45%...……. Oh HELL YEAH

[270west]

I had two batches of TFFV that were followed precisely to the recipe. DADY in one and Bakers yeast in the other as an experiment. Both yeast types were fresh. Controlled temps to ~28C. DADY took 11 days to dry down. Bakers took 7 days. Jealous that others can get a 4 day dry down. Any ideas why mine takes longer?

[MartinCash]

I ferment closert to 35 than 28 C. Quality and nutrients in the bran might vary.

[StillerBoy]

Jealous that others can get a 4 day dry down. Any ideas why mine takes longer?

Be mindful of two things that are important in a sugar wash, and are overlooked or disregarded, and that apply to any wash who's main ingredient is sugar, and it has nothing to do with whatever flavor of grain added.. and they are fermenting temp and Ph..

For a sugar wash to ferment properly in the shortest period, many things need attention, but the two most important ones are fermentation temp from pitching to providing a stable temp of the mid range of the yeast being used.. the other is acidity of the wash or Ph created by the yeast..

For baker's yeast, and that apply to all baker's yeast, both active dry or instant, should be pitched around the 95*F and allow the temp to drop down to around 84 - 86*F, and then maintain that temp range through insulation of some kind..

As to the Ph/acidity of the wash, a wash should be started in an acidic environment of a Ph of 5.5.. checked at the 8 - 10 hrs mark after pitching for acidic level and adjusted back to a Ph of 4 - 4.2 using some kind of buffer, such as calcium carbonate, calcium hydroxide.. and checked again at the 24 hrs and adjusted if needed..

There a few other process that will assist in cut down the fermentation period to 2.5 - 3 days, but those two the main ones..

Mars