Purchasable still reviews?

[der wo]

No one of the CM or plates-CM users here can contra on the argument of the easier/better control with the LM or VM-valve while running high-reflux, what is the main goal for Spiff.

BTW, I researched long here, but no one could give an answer, why a LM is so slow allegedly. It's an unproven rumor. Yes, you can run it slow with high reflux, it's easier to control high reflux with a LM or VM than with a CM, that's all.

CM, VM, LM, all do the same thing. Only the control is different. But that's important.
Plates are different. The downside of plates is, that you need much more height for the same purity in comparision to a packed column.

If you want to do only vodka and you buy a plates-CM, you are wasting money and/or get less purity.

And of course, if one wants to buy a plates-Cm, he should do all the same research before. For example he should do a sound decision, if it is really ok for him to use silicone gaskets, if he likes copper in the descending path, is brass ok for him, run electric or propane, and many more.


Edit:
Take a look at the pictures of Russian homedistillers:
http://bimber.ovh.org/galeria.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
They know, how to make vodka.
50% LM (mostly 45° offset designs), 50% CM (more or less well designed). All columns packed. Not a single one plated column!

[pfshine]

BTW, I researched long here, but no one could give an answer, why a LM is so slow allegedly. It's an unproven rumor. Yes, you can run it slow with high reflux, it's easier to control high reflux with a LM or VM than with a CM, that's all.

If you want to do only vodka and you buy a plates-CM, you are wasting money and/or get less purity.

I gotta disagree with a couple things here. Let's start with control, bubblers can be as easy to control as you make it. It's all just the turn of a knob anyway you look at it for any type of reflux excluding the ccvm.

Next is speed. Bokas and lms are generally slow due to take off speed really messing with the gradient. I made one ran it and cut it up to make a bubbler because it was so slow. Ya can read all over the forums that "the boka run wasn't too bad this time it only took 14 hours"

Next point is that I don't think that the large commercial vodka distilleries wasted money time or purity on their columns.

All this being said there is a big difference between vodka and neutral, which can be made with either.

[der wo]

With he LM-valve you change the output and immediately the reflux ratio changes. With the CM-valve, there flows more or less water, changing the temp of the coil, this changes the reflux ratio, all that needs time.

WHY is a LM slower? I open the valve and the whole condensate flows through the product condenser. There are also many here, complaining about this rumor. Where could the difference in speed be between a packed CM and LM? The speed is all about wattage, column and packing. LM, VM and CM is only a method of collecting product, it has nothing to do with speed.

Large scale probably plates are better. It's cleaner.

I am sure, if Stilldragon would sell LMs, they would sell them as the perfect tool for vodka. Why do they sell no packed column designs? Because they are worse? So the istill LMs are worse? Or because you can build the packed columns easily by yourself, the plate-stills not so easy? So they can make more money with plates?

[FullySilenced]

der wo why don't you visit the StillDragon forums and educate yourself a bit regarding their systems...

They do promote packed columns and talk about it for vodka and neutral production... many many pro distillers there...

Happy Stillin,

FS

[der wo]

Yes, and we are talking here about vodka and neutral production only.

I know the SD forum, I know the products selled there. And I haven't said here anything against their products.

There are so many members here, which run packed columns and see no reason to build a flute. But no one of them wants to help me here right now.

But it's ok.
I give up this thread.
See you in better mood in other threads.

[ga flatwoods]

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=60614
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =7&t=60096

[FullySilenced]

Actually his first post talked about high quality vodka neutral was not mentioned...

still sticking by plates and a packed section for quality and speed...

If he is looking for inexpensive... he should look at making a rig like Dad has posted... and fork up the dollars for some spp ... that unit is easy to make and will produce neutral

however his question was about purchasable stills... He may want to import one or Emptyglass's copper modular units ... http://coppercustomstillcomponents.com.au/wordpress/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow he as 4" and 6" units and well it doesn't get any better than these... again he was asking about SS units

Happy Stillin

FS

[der wo]

Because you are twisting facts, I crawl out of my hole again...

Actually his first post talked about high quality vodka

Actually his first post talked about HIGHEST PURITY vodka.

And how many plates he would need for "highest purity"? 10? What will this cost in stainless? 5000$? The still he was asking about costs 499$.

still sticking by packing for purity and quality. Or speed with reduced purity...

If someone likes to read the opinions about that from mash rookie, Prairiepiss, HookLine...
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =1&t=35332
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=29540

If he is looking for inexpensive... he should look at making a rig like Dad has posted... and fork up the dollars for some spp ... that unit is easy to make and will produce neutral

Yes, another good option.

Crawling back into my hole...

[spiff]

...double post

[spiff]

Thanks everyone for the feed back.. greatly appreciate it. I know a lot of this was probably said a million times. I'm starting to wrap my head around things.. but there are still instances where the more I know the more I know there is more to know.

The details on the models you're using and for what and why you like them was particularly useful.

I don't watch TV, haven't for probably a decade or more.. but I do have my vices. I game, and games are best while buzzed. I actually got interested when I saw a little hobby still in a Hammercher Schellemer catalog. Its was an over priced POS, but it got me curious on what other options are out there.. so once I googled it, the interest got its hooks into me.

So far I'm on board with the modular design and the consensus for the LM type to suit what I want to do with it. Though a 14 hour process might be disconcerting. I like the idea of being able to change the stacked components and have a different type still for different things, though my focus might always be vodka. There are still so many unknown variables for me though.. like just for starters, I'm not sure how you can identify the type of some of these by looking at them.. I guess some are obvious, but some aren't.. to me at least.

I'm pretty sure I want to avoid copper too and stick with stainless steel. I read too many threads here regarding the issues with copper, either tainting the product with a bad taste, or the extra overhead of keeping it properly seasoned.

I'm just going to keep researching until I think I know what I want. Thanks again for helping in this regard.
Regarding the time the process takes.. do they vary that much? 14 hours would be too much..I can't focus on anything for that long... I was under the impression that the CM version I was looking at would be done in an hour or two. That seems more reasonable and is probably at the limit on what I can do. Does this alone steer me into a certain model or size limitation?
(sry double post)

[thecroweater]

Because you are twisting facts, I crawl out of my hole again...

Actually his first post talked about high quality vodka

Actually his first post talked about HIGHEST PURITY vodka.
And how many plates he would need for "highest purity"? 10? What will this cost in stainless? 5000$? The still he was asking about costs 499$.
still sticking by packing for purity and quality. Or speed with reduced purity...
If someone likes to read the opinions about that from mash rookie, Prairiepiss, HookLine...
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =1&t=35332
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 15&t=29540

If he is looking for inexpensive... he should look at making a rig like Dad has posted... and fork up the dollars for some spp ... that unit is easy to make and will produce neutral

Yes, another good option.
Crawling back into my hole...

erm if you look around here including mashrookies threads you will see where myself and EG came up with methods and strata that will give you an azeotropical alcohol with 4 plates and a 500mm packed refux module
Edit like This thread

[spiff]

still stirring... your setup with the LM/VM hybrid sounds intriguing.. I presume its a custom built one? Is there a close purchasable equivalent?

I checked out the Stll Dragons..holy cow they're expensive.
I like what I'm seeing on MileHi through my noobie eyes... full stainless steel setups and they seem the most competitively priced. And that's not looking at their cheap Chinese made section.

I think I'm slowing narrowing the field down on what suits me. I think the next variable is time... any feed back on that? How do the different versions stack up time wise? The idea of having to closely monitor something all day is probably a deal breaker for me. Several hours would probably be my limit.

[LWTCS]

still stirring... your setup with the LM/VM hybrid sounds intriguing.. I presume its a custom built one? Is there a close purchasable equivalent?

I checked out the Stll Dragons..holy cow they're expensive.
I like what I'm seeing on MileHi through my noobie eyes... full stainless steel setups and they seem the most competitively priced. And that's not looking at their cheap Chinese made section.

I think I'm slowing narrowing the field down on what suits me. I think the next variable is time... any feed back on that? How do the different versions stack up time wise? The idea of having to closely monitor something all day is probably a deal breaker for me. Several hours would probably be my limit.

The SD units are bubble caps and do come with all of the irrigation parts needed for a pretty turn key system. It's not exactly apples to apples.

Good luck on your search.

[der wo]

Regarding the time the process takes.. do they vary that much? 14 hours would be too much..I can't focus on anything for that long... I was under the impression that the CM version I was looking at would be done in an hour or two. That seems more reasonable and is probably at the limit on what I can do. Does this alone steer me into a certain model or size limitation?

With my small LM, 70cm SPP packing, 25cm copper scrubbers, 2" diameter, 2.5kW, 13l max. 40% low wines or feints, I need 5h (inkl assembling and cleaning) for a neutral/vodka run, always azeotrop, I stop, when I get only a few drops per second azeo. Of course the last jars are no hearts but tails, tails with 95% ethanol. Much time needs collecting the foreshots and heads and the last liter. It would be much faster, if I would accept 78.4 instead of 78.3°C while the hearts.

If you want to be faster with the same purity, you need more wattage. For more wattage you need more diameter of the column and a more powerful reflux condenser.

Of course with more charge you will need more time (or more wattage, diameter and condenser capacity).

[RedwoodHillBilly]

If you are looking for a still that you can purchase/make for very clean neutral/vodka, I might recommend buying a boiler from Brewhaus, Milehigh or StillDragon and add a CCVM column to it. There are many places to buy the sanitary spools and Tees as well as the CSST. Here is a link to DAD300's thread on it. http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... &p=7104768

This system is dead easy to build and run. I have one and can easily get azeo on a 1 and done run, but I usually strip then run it in reflux mode. I feel that I get a cleaner neutral that way. If you build modular, you will have more options as your goals change from just vodka to something else.

[pfshine]

Spiff. You are gonna want copper in there somewhere to remove the sulfites. I'm not sure where you heard copper tainted the taste if the booze, because I have never heard that one before. Or the extra overhead of keeping it seasoned. You should treat all stills the same, do a run, give a quick rinse and dry that's it no extra involved. Not trying to push you to copper I don't care what you do. But what you said was wrong and needed correcting.

[still_stirrin]

still stirrin'...I presume its a custom built one? Is there a close purchasable equivalent?

Yep, designed and built by me. I do like the concentric reflux condenser design (thanks Rad).

I checked out the Stll Dragons..holy cow they're expensive...

Quality comes with a price, especially if you choose to buy instead of build. (hint - buying copper to build isn't cheap either, but you supply the labor as opposed to paying for it).

If money was not a factor and single run (one and done) was a "requirement" for neutrals AND flavored spirits, then a flute would be the perfect tool for the job. And certainly SD is a fantastic supplier of flutes & plated stills.

For me, designing and building afforded me plenty of time to research, read, learn, and understand the processes of operation of a still while I was busy fabricating. But by the time I fired the boiler up I knew what I wanted and how to do it.

YMMV.
ss

[jdetechguy]

I certainly learned a lot here. I just bought a very pretty, stable 13 gallon milk can boiler with the site glass column from Moonshine Distillers. I thought it was LM but it's CM. I should have known, but lacked understanding even after reading here and the Compleat Distiller. That said, I am happy with it.

[Danespirit]

Is that a 3" CM you bought?
A CM can be a bit fiddly to learn how to run...
Once you got a fundamental understanding of what's happening in your column, it's capable of producing a fine drop.
The only remark I would have about that particular still, are the silicone gaskets...
Swap them for PTFE and you have a fine still there..
I see it has a drain valve at the bottom of the boiler, which is a good detail on stills this size.
The other port is capped with an end cap, which is for a heating element (again probably sealed with a silicone gasket)..
Do you run electric or gas..?
Btw...nice video tutorial they have made.

[spiff]

Thanks again for the replies.

Regarding copper.. you might want to read the thread http://ww.homedistiller.org/forum/viewt ... =1&t=42610 ...if you do I think you would agree that from the perspective of someone who hadn't bought a still yet.. is enough to make one try to avoid it. I'll still use copper wadding.. I just would rather avoid copper as the still itself.

JDtechguy... is this yours? http://moonshinedistiller.com/moonshine ... -13-gallon" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow This is exactly the one I was looking at.. but people were ripping on it in another thread. Make me wonder how much personal preference is in play. It sounds like you like yours.. how long does it take you to finish a batch? And its still modular it appears so that if you wanted to put a different riser on it you could.

My biggest concern is the point of no return on timing... I'm presuming that once you start the process, it requires your attention to the end. For me, I wouldnt factor in the setup and stuff like that as that could be done separately if needed.

Still stiring..that's a work of art.. gonna have to study that later and try to wrap my head around what's going on there.

[thecroweater]

regarding copper ya might want to read that thread right through and many others, it is what ya might call grossly misleading

[cityboy2977]

i dont know where you read or who posted that copper gives an off taste or flavors but ill tell ya now...that is complete and utter bullshit. just my opinion, but it was prbably said by someone that produces/sells all SS setups.
i just ran a neutral the other day in my all copper, 4 plate, 4" column with 36" packed section and if you can taste and off flavors in it ill give ya a $100 bill.
as another stated, a quick rinse in water is all the upkeep needed for copper. hell, ya wont need to do that if all ya runnin is neutrals.

[spiff]

I did.. it seemed like enough people having issues maintaining the copper pantina through a thorough cleaning.. without it they were susceptible to getting a coppery taste. Several people in that thread reported this. And then there is possible leaching as well... stainless steel has none of these issues. Might as well stick with SS

[spiff]

i dont know where you read or who posted that copper gives an off taste or flavors but ill tell ya now...that is complete and utter bullshit. just my opinion, but it was prbably said by someone that produces/sells all SS setups.
i just ran a neutral the other day in my all copper, 4 plate, 4" column with 36" packed section and if you can taste and off flavors in it ill give ya a $100 bill.
as another stated, a quick rinse in water is all the upkeep needed for copper. hell, ya wont need to do that if all ya runnin is neutrals.

I suppose that's possible.. but the OP on that thread sounded like he was a known member around here (Odin). I think its also possible there there are different copper alloys out there.. and who knows what everyone puts through their equipment.

I'm not knocking copper at all.. just trying to research and make an educated decision if/when I get my own setup. So far I see no concerns at all with SS, so I'm still erring on that side. But I do appreciate all imput.

[thecroweater]

The OP sells stainless stills hence the thread, no dog in this race but there is no way I would own a ss pot still. Thats just my opinion and you'll form ya own

[Kegg_jam]

Definitely do your research and make a decision after obtaining enough valid information.

I have have the utmost respect for Odin and really enjoy his posts, but in fact he does sell stainless stills.

Good luck with that decision. Stainless and copper both can make a fine still.

[spiff]

Ah, that's pretty sneaky.. would have thought that would have been more of a focus in the thread then. Thanks

[spiff]

croweater.. you said you would never own SS.. are there cons to SS?

[still_stirrin]

..I suppose that's possible...possible there there are different copper alloys out there.. and who knows what everyone puts through their equipment...I'm not knocking copper at all...just trying to research and make an educated decision if/when I get my own setup. So far I see no concerns at all with SS...

You know spiff, copper pipes have been supplying households with hot and cold running water for 50 years. And that water has been used to clean with and drink just the same. Granted household piping is not subjected to high temperature solvent solutions which (may) react with the copper.

But consider this; many commercial distilleries have copper boilers and still heads. There has been millions of gallons of consumable alcohol produced through copper. Why? Danger greater than benefit....probably not. The copper benefits outweigh the risks. It's only considering costs to manufacture that the stainless steel options have thrived.

So, if $$$ is a primary consideration for your acquisition, then SS is a viable solution. If ease of assembly, modification, and repair along with operational benefits (like reduction of fermentation by-products, ie - sulfurs) are driving constraints, then you should not "rule out" copper....at least in the ascending vapor path.

As a side note - commercial fuel alcohol producers use stainless steel exclusively in their equipment for several reasons:
1) cost advantages
2) available materials (pipe, fittings, valves, etc.)
3) assembly tools (TiG welding, triclover flanges & clamps, etc.)
4) maintenance...you can clean stainless with commercial caustic cleaners to remove organic materials.
5) nobody will drink the product, so there is no advantage to running through copper to reduce sulfurs.

I think (personal opinion here) that if I were to buy a "turnkey" system, I would look seriously at a stainless system. But for building (design & ownership pride), especially for the hobbiest level of production, copper pipes, fittings and adapters are ideal. And still safe and functional...thereby satisfying one of MY primary objectives.
ss

[Kegg_jam]

Crap, I didn't mean to imply 'sneaky'.

I just meant if your selling stainless your going to want to promote the strong points of it.

I agree with all of what SS said.