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Desvio wrote: ↑Fri Dec 25, 2020 5:35 pm

jonnys_spirit wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:17 pm
Are you stripping on-grain?

Cheers!
Jonny

Nah, not set up for that. yet...

I line my stainless three gallon fruit press with jersey material, pour it through that and wrap up what's left and press it dry. Everything from that goes into carboys to clarify before stripping/spirit runs, mostly using Chinese yeast balls now, but gearing up to try my hand at converting rice with enzymes. Would be a ton faster.

The angle liquor yeast has the enzymes. I've been using the yeast balls to start my rice, then a few days later when I add the water I'll put that angel alcohol yeast in it, I've notice a slightly bigger pay off in results rather than with just using the yeast balls alone.

SGB wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:43 am The angle liquor yeast has the enzymes. I've been using the yeast balls to start my rice, then a few days later when I add the water I'll put that angel alcohol yeast in it, I've notice a slightly bigger pay off in results rather than with just using the yeast balls alone.

I interesting, currently I'm using two yeast balls crushed on my mortar with two tbs of sugar and two tbs of flower (sort of starter I read decades ago) per six cups dry, mostly in a rice maker but I can duplicate it in a pot just as well. Once I scoop it out hot into my cooling pot I'll add a little boiling water (1 cup usually), just enough it stays fluffy and let cool down covered to 90°F before adding my yeast mix and going into my fermenters.

Been playing with suspended fermenting, keeping the rice above and out of the liquid, almost like a perpetual ferment.

Love that music with the video, was it being played backwards?

v-child wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:48 am Love that music with the video, was it being played backwards?

Only if you had a few as the commentator did!

Desvio wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:13 am

SGB wrote: ↑Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:43 am The angle liquor yeast has the enzymes. I've been using the yeast balls to start my rice, then a few days later when I add the water I'll put that angel alcohol yeast in it, I've notice a slightly bigger pay off in results rather than with just using the yeast balls alone.

I interesting, currently I'm using two yeast balls crushed on my mortar with two tbs of sugar and two tbs of flower (sort of starter I read decades ago) per six cups dry, mostly in a rice maker but I can duplicate it in a pot just as well. Once I scoop it out hot into my cooling pot I'll add a little boiling water (1 cup usually), just enough it stays fluffy and let cool down covered to 90°F before adding my yeast mix and going into my fermenters.

Been playing with suspended fermenting, keeping the rice above and out of the liquid, almost like a perpetual ferment.

I just do it the way grandpa does 1 yeast ball per kilo rice crushed onto the cool steamed glutinous rice ,let that rice do its thing for a few days before adding water. I only just started with the Angel yeast the last two times. Honestly, I don't notice that much of a difference yet to really rule one out over the other and I haven't started the rice without yeast balls yet because I just got the Angel yeast and haven't delved that far. But it is for making rice wine and spirits. I guess just do what works best for you that way you know it works. I can't say one way is better than another.. But ol gramps says his way is the only way!

Been alternating between the yeast balls and Angel liquor starter. From what I've gathered there's not much difference between the two other than the yeast balls are natural and the angel is a refined product. Also the yeast balls have mold added in and the angel doesn't. So for wine making I guess the koji needs to be added before with the angel but not the balls. Also when distilling it you don't really get that extra koji flavor. I guess I need to somehow distille it through the rice Lees by fitting the pot and lid or a thumper? To get the koji flavor?

The Angel starter of liquor making does contain a mold, but it is Rhizopus oryzae, whereas koji is Aspergillus oryzae.

I tried both the angel yeast "rice leaven" and the more generic "yeast balls" as found all over ebay and amazon...

I gotta say the angel yeast did not taste good at all, threw the whole lot away. I hardly ever throw booze away either!

the "yeast balls" worked magically, made a fine rice booze.

Strange: i also tried both, but Angel had the best results

I also have done both and did notice a taste difference as well. Mind you these yeast balls are mysterious with a mixture of strange ingredients. I've got 8 litres that's been in fridge aging since July so going on 5 months now I actually made this batch of wine using both. I started the fermentation with steamed rice and yeast balls. Then like 5days later added water and 10g of Angel. I guess I did it more like a Sake.
But for the spirit, Baiju, Soju, Shochu whatever you call it, I didn't notice any flavor difference between the two yeasts ... it still tastes like Kaoliang 58°

Hey guys,

Just wondering if you've tried the rice cooking method vs the rice steaming method. I can see how it would make a big difference in timing etc for something brewed but wonder how much difference it makes in something that you are distilling (and the face you pretty much let the wash finish going all the way vs some of the timing you want from brewing). I make my first angel yeast batch and it turned out quite good! but trying some of these yeast balls and others next.

kuraokami wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:35 am Hey guys,

Just wondering if you've tried the rice cooking method vs the rice steaming method. I can see how it would make a big difference in timing etc for something brewed but wonder how much difference it makes in something that you are distilling (and the face you pretty much let the wash finish going all the way vs some of the timing you want from brewing). I make my first angel yeast batch and it turned out quite good! but trying some of these yeast balls and others next.

From what I have experienced is that steamed rice produced a more flavorful end product in both wine and spirit. Also the flavor difference between angel yeast and the local yeast balls was marginally different in back of mouth feel in the wines but not enough of a difference in the spirits. The cooked rice produced a somewhat OK product for the spirit but definitely on a lower quality scale. For wine it was undrinkable in my opinion and I didn't even like it for cooking.. It had a baby puke wine taste that I recognize from some bad some farmers wines from grapes I had in Greece in my younger years.

The wines are fantastic after 6+ months cold aging
The spirits are ready to drink and I haven't noticed much in the way of aging enough to not drink fresh. In other words it's as good out of the pipe as it is a year later only difference is a bit of smoothness. Rice spirit from a pot still does not taste like vodka and two distillations are recommended for a higher ABV and smoother flavor

In conclusion clean washed glutinous rice soaked in warm water overnight and steamed is best flavor hands down
The best spirit or wine is best made from the process I described above in doing a 2 part dry/wet fermentations that begins with a dry fermentation for 5 days without any added water and the water added after the 5 days with a ratio of 1.25 :1 for wine and 3 : 1 for spirit

Nice notes SGB! Very interested to try this maybe with a 1.5 with some kojified slop or something to split the difference between double and single distilled. I’m a big koji fan with a number of jars of soy, miso, and various pastes going for 12-18 months now i keep thinking there’s got to be a way on the ferment end to continually reserve and reuse some of the ferment remnants in next batch. Too high of an abv will probably denature the enzymes but maybe low enough will protect from some infection??

Cheers!
-j

The ratios your are mentioning are raw rice to water right? I’m going to try your method next as I really want to taste this sweet liquor!!! Last time I tried with angel alone i didn’t get the same flavors. Have you tried with rice other than sweet rice? Do you have a brand you like?

Also if you want your distillate to be ever so slightly sweet is that possible? Or would distilling it generally remove lol of that

kuraokami wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 7:28 pm Have you tried with rice other than sweet rice? Do you have a brand you like?

It's tough to find right now (always "Out of Stock"), but Sam's Club has Diamond G Calrose which is a sushi grade medium length grain. Costco used to carry Kokuho Rose, which I think actually made a tastier wine than the Calrose. Both distilled out with no sweetness that I could detect.

Now I get medium grain rice from my local Restaurant Store.

If you can find it, everything I've read on this forum says that short grained rice makes the best wine & distillate.

kuraokami wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 7:28 pm The ratios your are mentioning are raw rice to water right? I’m going to try your method next as I really want to taste this sweet liquor!!! Last time I tried with angel alone i didn’t get the same flavors. Have you tried with rice other than sweet rice? Do you have a brand you like?

Yes, dry uncooked rice weight to water ratio. I have tried it with regular rice. Can't really remember what happened but it was only once. I get the rice at local market. It's bulk so no brand name. But it's sticky rice, sweet glutinous rice.
Not sure about sweet distillate flavor though ,I use pot still and distill twice (stripping and spirit run). I've used both angel yeast and local rice yeast balls. Pretty much was also same result

I have done the rice ferment about 6 times now successfully with the Angel rice leaven for 4 days before adding water and ec1118 or yellow label Angel.
I have sweet rice wine clearing and rice wine ready for distillation.
This last time something went sideways. I left the rice 7 days before adding water and yeast and as the picture shows I got some funky green/black mold.
I am 99.999% ready to flush it but I thought I would get a second opinion first.
Thanks for any opinions

I will take the lack of response that no one disagrees with flushing, so it will go and fermenter will be bleached.
On to the next attempt which will not sit unheated for more than 3 days.

ROD01 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 10, 2022 7:53 am I will take the lack of response that no one disagrees with flushing, so it will go and fermenter will be bleached.
On to the next attempt which will not sit unheated for more than 3 days.

Hi Mate,
I wouldn't know but may I ask, are you taking any measurements, SG, pH?

I got this odd result from my rice fermentation using Angel. Of course I had a SG of 1.00 throughout the process until at the end, my SG started to increase! and I did a starch test and there is still starch in the wine.

Any thoughts on how to test for complete conversion or a finished fermentation?

First a correction I typed unyeasted, not unheated for more than 3 days, thanks autocorrect.
No gravities or PH taken, just 4kg of steamed rice and the rice leaven( a. Oryzae) then Angel yellow label after a few days has always worked. The last couple ferments that turned out good I added a teaspoon of Dap and the same amount of calcium hydroxide with the Angel just in case. I have read that the starch test with iodine does not work with rice
It is done(in my opinion) when It clears and for distilling wine it tastes sour. Sorry I can't give any other help on your questions. This infested batch was just me waiting too long to add yeast I hope.
Rod01

The intrigue continues!!!!
Iodine test doesn't work is a new one.

Has anyone tried any of the other lines of angel yeast other than the yellow label?

It’s hard to tell the difference sometimes but I would what differences they make in taste with the final distillates

kuraokami wrote: ↑Mon May 09, 2022 3:25 pm Has anyone tried any of the other lines of angel yeast other than the yellow label?

It’s hard to tell the difference sometimes but I would what differences they make in taste with the final distillates

The only other angel yeast I've used is the beer yeast. BF 16 Lagar yeast. It tastes great for beer but I haven't used it for Sake or Shochu. For that just yeast rice balls or the yellow label. Last one I did for sake I did 4-5 days steamed rice with koji then after that I added 1.25 water to 1 rice and the yeast. It finished in about a week as usual. For the shochu I don't use the koji and as far as taste goes, I can't tell much of a difference with the shochu and for wine I can't really tell but I'm leaning towards the yeast balls as a smother end product. Problem is that wine/sake , you have to let it age in the fridge for 6+ months to get a good end product