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Maybe people should apologise to Swish for calling him a fool and a liar....

Swishy is just using Dr. Stone's method and there is nothing wrong with it at all. I have used it with stirring and heating and the yeast never grow. There is just enough yeast that the enzymes they do produce "cracks" the sugar to ethanol. This is well documented in his book "Making vodka and gin" He does also explain that because of the stress that the yeast endure that this is a "Dirty" wash and is hard to clean up and often requires carbon filtering.
Since there are a number of bootleg copies of this book on the internet it really should be required reading. It answers most of the new distiller's questions. Dr. Stone's equipment is a bit crazy using water heaters and all, here in the USA they are junk, with iron connections and poor material throughout, but his methods are rock solid.

so using backset left in the boiler from a stripping run is beneficial even on tomato paste sugar washes?

i never clear my washes either just siphon into the boiler. so a non-cleared wash will have live yeast floating around in it which will all get killed and broken down after the stripping run. then backsetting a portion into the fermenter for the next run will boost the amino acids and proteins?

or do you have to fool about with boiling the lees?

punkin wrote:Maybe people should apologise to Swish for calling him a fool and a liar....

Thanks Punkin, but no apologies are necessary. I'm here to learn and share and I'm doing just that.

For distilling, I've been wondering. I've got a 41" copper reflux still, but like I said earlier, I want to do a rye whiskey as well as a wheat vodka run. I realize that by using my reflux, what I'll have will be mostly neutral spirits. If I removed the packing, would the still run as more of a pot still producing more of the flavor I'm looking for? Has anyone tried this? At the moment, that will be my only option.

swishy wrote: If I removed the packing, would the still run as more of a pot still producing more of the flavor I'm looking for? Has anyone tried this? At the moment, that will be my only option.

it is pretty common around here for people to do that. i do mostly neutrals but have done a handful of flavored things and used this method. it worked alright,for sure was a bit lacking in flavor.

make sure your column is insulated well to minimize reflux along the sides

eternalfrost wrote:

swishy wrote: If I removed the packing, would the still run as more of a pot still producing more of the flavor I'm looking for? Has anyone tried this? At the moment, that will be my only option.

it is pretty common around here for people to do that. i do mostly neutrals but have done a handful of flavored things and used this method. it worked alright,for sure was a bit lacking in flavor.

make sure your column is insulated well to minimize reflux along the sides

Thanks for the quick reply. I'll give 'er a whirl and see what happens. I'm going to follow the temperature guide in the post still forum and hopefully it works out.

Hey, swishy, do you have a picture of your still, or can you point us to a similar design...??? It will help in the long run as far as advice regarding still operation... For most reflux stills you can use a combination of packing removal and/or zero reflux to gain flavors and/or reduce product ABV... Depends on the rig...

This is it:



The column is 41" and the diameter is 2 1/2". The condenser is soldered onto the column, but the piece of copper tube holding the condensor to the column is non-functional. It's just there to hold the unit together. The top off the column has a cooling jacket on it that I run with the needle valve to the left. The other needle valve is for the condensor. The first 1/3 of the column is filled with glass marbles and the top 2/3 is SS scrubbers. The thermometer in the rop is directly at the output of the column. It is all attached to a 20L aluminum pressure cooker.

Hey Swishy,
Temps won't tell you much. A better plan is to use taste and smell. These 2 threads will be lots of help:

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =16&t=6118
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8393

Getting cuts right is the most important part of the process. I'm still learning.

-Mud

Mud wrote:Hey Swishy,
Temps won't tell you much. A better plan is to use taste and smell. These 2 threads will be lots of help:

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =16&t=6118
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8393

Getting cuts right is the most important part of the process. I'm still learning.

-Mud

Damn! Thanks for the links. I've got so much more to learn!!

Hey, that rig puts a different spin on things as far as design goes... How far up the column does the packing go...??? Does it reach up into the condenser section...??? If not then it would appear as though the reflux would only run down the walls of the column... Looks easy enough to build if it proves to be an efficient design, but you might get some flack for having plastic in the ethanol path - like between the take-off tube and the condenser and the final product hose...

Don't worry, swishy, every day is just another part of the learning curve...

swishy,
I'm no expert on fractionals, but I believe to run one of those in pot-still mode for making whiskey, you'd remove all packing, and open the valve all the way up, and just use the heat from the bottom to control the flowrate—not the valve. More heat, faster flow. Less heat, slower flow. You don't want the column to equalize. You are just basically running it wide open using the heat to drive it.

rad14701 wrote:Hey, that rig puts a different spin on things as far as design goes... How far up the column does the packing go...??? Does it reach up into the condenser section...??? If not then it would appear as though the reflux would only run down the walls of the column... Looks easy enough to build if it proves to be an efficient design, but you might get some flack for having plastic in the ethanol path - like between the take-off tube and the condenser and the final product hose...

Don't worry, swishy, every day is just another part of the learning curve...

You like it? As far as the packing, the marbles reach about 1/3 from the bottom of the column. The other two thirds (to the top of the column just a hair below the outlet) is filled but not packed with SS scrubbers. I know about the plastic, but it's a food grade and I like to see what's happening at that part. I'll likely change that out to copper in the near future. It's been working very well for the past two years or so. The only problem I've had is surging in the temperatures at the outlet and I think I figured that out. I read elsewhere on here that there can be a siphon effect from the water jacket. This is likely my problem since I use a "Y" adapter for my cold water inlet and run my condensor at a higher flow rate than the water jacket. The other thing that might be a problem is the water pressure surging when the pump comes on, forcing more water through the water jacket, cooling it more-so than when the pump is off. I'm going to drill a small hole in the top of the water jacket and see if that stops the surging.

Thanks Usge for the input. I'll be trying that in the near future.

One other question. I've read lots of posts here regarding wheat whiskey. But it seems like wheat whiskey is the same as wheat vodka? Is it the same? I am going to try "BW Redneck's Guide to Wheat Whiskey" with wheat as a grain and rye as a grain. My understanding is that the wheat will be like a wheat vodka and the rye will be like, well, rye whiskey.

wheat has a light flavor that is why it is used for vodka if you run threw a reflux and age in glass/ stainless, you will have vodka.
if you run in a pot still a couple times and age in/on wood it whould be whisky . but light in "grain flavor" but good mixed /blended
with something like rye. I have always use mixed grain but this winter going to try running separate then blend after. maybe
I will have better control of flavors.

swishy wrote:
The only problem I've had is surging in the temperatures at the outlet and I think I figured that out. I read elsewhere on here that there can be a siphon effect from the water jacket. This is likely my problem since I use a "Y" adapter for my cold water inlet and run my condensor at a higher flow rate than the water jacket. The other thing that might be a problem is the water pressure surging when the pump comes on, forcing more water through the water jacket, cooling it more-so than when the pump is off. I'm going to drill a small hole in the top of the water jacket and see if that stops the surging.

Thanks Usge for the input. I'll be trying that in the near future.

If I'm not mistaken, your water jacket is controlling the reflux. The surging most likely is due to temperature changes of the jacket. The water flow to it should be continuous. You can adjust the volume up and down to help regulate output, but it's a hand off. The slower and warmer the water to the jacket, the lower your output ABV and quality will be. Why is the pump cycling? Can you set it to stay on?

brewmaker1 wrote:

swishy wrote:
The only problem I've had is surging in the temperatures at the outlet and I think I figured that out. I read elsewhere on here that there can be a siphon effect from the water jacket. This is likely my problem since I use a "Y" adapter for my cold water inlet and run my condensor at a higher flow rate than the water jacket. The other thing that might be a problem is the water pressure surging when the pump comes on, forcing more water through the water jacket, cooling it more-so than when the pump is off. I'm going to drill a small hole in the top of the water jacket and see if that stops the surging.

Thanks Usge for the input. I'll be trying that in the near future.

If I'm not mistaken, your water jacket is controlling the reflux. The surging most likely is due to temperature changes of the jacket. The water flow to it should be continuous. You can adjust the volume up and down to help regulate output, but it's a hand off. The slower and warmer the water to the jacket, the lower your output ABV and quality will be. Why is the pump cycling? Can you set it to stay on?

Your correct, the jacket helps in the reflux. I'm on my own well with a pressure tank. When the pressure drops to 40 (or so) PSI, the pump comes on and pressures the tank to about 75PSI then shuts off again. Of course with the added pressure comes added volume of water through the jacket. I'm not sure how to regulate that pressure to a steady rate.

swishy, you need to keep the coolant steady just as you need to keep your heat steady... Worst case scenario, use a recirculating pump and reservoir combined with a coolant flow control valve...

you can git a water regulator from 10$ to-------------- I have a old one off a boiler feed.works for me.

If you have a wash tub nearby, fill it with water and use a submersible pump. Mine works well that way. I have to drain part of the water out a couple times during a run and refill with cold water, but it doesn't change enough to cause surging. A big picnic cooler full of water and ice would work good too.
Don't know how your well pump is set up, but when mine started fluctuating like that I added a few pounds of air to the bladder in the water tank. The fluctuation went away.

I'm sure someone will correct me if Im wrong .You could call someone and ask to be sure but I was thinking that your bladder air was suppose to be 10 lbs less then water pressure.

I think there's some humor here. Swishy has a concern about surging, and we fix his well

I've had to add air to the pressure tank a few times over the years. As far as the difference in pressure from cut-on to cut-off, I'm not sure what it's supposed to be. I've got a plumber friend I can ask. I'll also be asking him about a regulator. Seems the easiest route to go. If nothing else, I can do the tub with cold water.

eternalfrost wrote:so using backset left in the boiler from a stripping run is beneficial even on tomato paste sugar washes?

i never clear my washes either just siphon into the boiler. so a non-cleared wash will have live yeast floating around in it which will all get killed and broken down after the stripping run. then backsetting a portion into the fermenter for the next run will boost the amino acids and proteins?

or do you have to fool about with boiling the lees?

I was hoping someone would answer these questions... Sounds like an easy way to improve a persons wash??