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Posted: **Sun Feb 06, 2022 12:12 am**

NZChris wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 9:31 pm I get mine stripped before infections have a chance to make a difference.

I agree, a bacterial infection isn't good for neutral spirits.
That's why I like cold crashing if possible.
The yeast flocculates quickly and bacteria doesn't have a chance due to the cold temps.
My fermenter is made, so the finished wash can be drained without disturbing the spent yeast.

Posted: **Sun Feb 06, 2022 1:38 am**

shadylane wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 12:12 am My fermenter is made, so the finished wash can be drained without disturbing the spent yeast.

Mine too shady , although its still a bit high up from the bottom and I have to tilt it over to drain the last of the good stuff out .

I’m like Saltbush , after about a week or two , it will naturally settle /clear . The yeast cake will be fairly firm at the bottom and the wash will have gone from milky to fairly clear .

And if when I tilt it over to get the last of the cleared wash out and I disturb the yeast , I don’t sweat it .

Posted: **Sun Feb 06, 2022 7:09 am**

This is pretty close to wineos sugar wash.. I bet this works great.

B

Posted: **Sun Feb 06, 2022 7:10 am**

Thank you guys for the info.

I was also worried a bit about infection setting in at room temps, but truth be told, I have yet to get one since I’ve started the hobby. I’ll cross my fingers and try to keep the lid closed til I’m ready to test FG and don’t hear any sizzling bubbles inside.

After that I’ll let it sit for a bit then strip.

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2022 1:09 pm**

Andrew_90 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 01, 2021 1:19 am This is what I get.

Also easier to measure in Tablespoons vs. cups.

Hi,

I do not think that you need Multivitamin, If I am not wrong Shady also excluded it from the recipe, instead you can use boiled yeast which is a great meal for yeast.

This is how I use this recipe, and it ferments out in 4-5 days.

Shady’s Sugar Shine 30lt Neutral Recipe

Recipe

* 5.5 kg Sugar
* 26.6 lt Water
* 32 gr Boiled activated yeast component
* 15 Gram DAP
* 32 gr Bakers Yeast
* 7.5 gram Epsom Salt
* 3 Oyster Shell - 1-2 Cup Crushed Oyster Shell

SG: 1.070
Potantial Alcohol ABV: %10.8

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2022 1:16 pm**

Dear Shady,

Instead of sea shells, how can we use calcium carbonate, should it be at the beginning ?

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2022 1:56 pm**

artooks wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 1:16 pm Dear Shady,

Instead of sea shells, how can we use calcium carbonate, should it be at the beginning ?

If you only have powdered calcium carbonate, its a PITA to use for pH control.

The Google search will find your question being answered numerous times. Simple methods, complicated methods, take your pick.

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2022 3:06 pm**

artooks wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 1:16 pm
Instead of sea shells, how can we use calcium carbonate, should it be at the beginning ?

The reason I used shell grit, is because its time released and doesn't require any pH measurements.
To answer your question, I'd add powdered CC around 24 hours after pitching yeast.

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2022 3:24 pm**

I used powdered calcium carbonate all the time and have never found an issue with it. I actually like it because it dissolves in solution and still buffers through the ferment. I also don’t have to retrieve the shells after I’m done. Works for me.

I’m approaching it purely non-scientifically and don’t bother with Ph measurements because I’ve always had timely ferments and end well below 1.000SG.

I can also update on my current batch that’s in the fermenter. I’m at a full 4 days and have maintained a pretty steady 84-85 degree temp with my heat pads and temp controller. I think it’s winding down and almost finished because I’m not noticing as much exotherm and my temp controller is showing a slight drop below target. I put my ear next to it and noticed a slight sizzling, which could just be offgassiing of CO2. I wrapped an extra blanket around the kettle to contain the heat til it’s finished. I’ll pull the lid and test the SG tomorrow.

Pretty awesome smell coming from the fermenter the whole way through with zero sulfur. Smells like golden delicious apples. Should make a nice, clean drop through the SPP column. Thanks again Shady!

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2022 6:38 pm**

artooks wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 1:09 pm
I do not think that you need Multivitamin, If I am not wrong Shady also excluded it from the recipe, instead you can use boiled yeast which is a great meal for yeast.

Multivitamins definitely makes a difference on most sugar wash recipies.
But it doesn't seem to be needed on this one.
Also, some multivitamins stink or taste bad.

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:23 pm**

shadylane wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 6:38 pm
artooks wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 1:09 pm
I do not think that you need Multivitamin, If I am not wrong Shady also excluded it from the recipe, instead you can use boiled yeast which is a great meal for yeast.

Multivitamins definitely makes a difference on most sugar wash recipies.
But it doesn't seem to be needed on this one.
Also, some multivitamins stink or taste bad.

Dear Shady,
Since I started to make your recipe, this is my 6 and 7th batch, bubbling away as I write it is day 3 and current gravity is 1.010 in the past I used multivitamin but they extract a funky smell, which I stopped using it, and the smell is awesome, of course the yeast will benefit from it, but usually the outcome is not very good maybe it is the multivitamin that I use. But must say even without the multivitamin the outcome is awesome.

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2022 8:27 pm**

BrewinBrian44 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 3:24 pm I used powdered calcium carbonate all the time and have never found an issue with it. I actually like it because it dissolves in solution and still buffers through the ferment. I also don’t have to retrieve the shells after I’m done. Works for me.

I’m approaching it purely non-scientifically and don’t bother with Ph measurements because I’ve always had timely ferments and end well below 1.000SG.

I can also update on my current batch that’s in the fermenter. I’m at a full 4 days and have maintained a pretty steady 84-85 degree temp with my heat pads and temp controller. I think it’s winding down and almost finished because I’m not noticing as much exotherm and my temp controller is showing a slight drop below target. I put my ear next to it and noticed a slight sizzling, which could just be offgassiing of CO2. I wrapped an extra blanket around the kettle to contain the heat til it’s finished. I’ll pull the lid and test the SG tomorrow.

Pretty awesome smell coming from the fermenter the whole way through with zero sulfur. Smells like golden delicious apples. Should make a nice, clean drop through the SPP column. Thanks again Shady!

Dear BrewinBrian44,

Can you please tell us after making Shady's Sugar Shine recipe, how big is your fermenter and when and how much do you add Calcium Carbonate ?, do you only add it once, or multiple times ? Thanks

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2022 9:52 pm**

shadylane wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 3:06 pm
artooks wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 1:16 pm
Instead of sea shells, how can we use calcium carbonate, should it be at the beginning ?
The reason I used shell grit, is because its time released and doesn't require any pH measurements.
To answer your question, I'd add powdered CC around 24 hours after pitching yeast.

Thanks Shady, can I ask you after 24 hours how much Calcium carbonate do you add to how much wash and also, do you reach a gravity of 0.990 in 5-6 days even with adding CC after 24 hours ?

Posted: **Thu Feb 10, 2022 9:51 am**

artooks wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 9:52 pm
Thanks Shady, can I ask you after 24 hours how much Calcium carbonate do you add to how much wash and also, do you reach a gravity of 0.990 in 5-6 days even with adding CC after 24 hours ?

I can't answer that question because everybody's water is different.
I'd recommend using crushed shell instead of powdered CC.

Posted: **Thu Feb 10, 2022 3:21 pm**

I respect Shady’s opinion on the subject. To be honest, I wasn’t aware using powdered CC vs shells may cause issues. I’ve never had any, but my water chem is likely different from yours.

For what it’s worth, I did the full 20gal in the recipe and added 4tsp of CC before pitching, 1tsp per 5gal. It hasn’t failed me yet, but maybe it could be better with shells, no idea. I even have oyster shells on hand… maybe next time I’ll try them instead to see if there’s any difference.

As for my wash, it’s sitting at 0.993SG after 5 days. I actually think it was finished yesterday. Smells very clean! Mild apple ester and no other off smells. This is with DADY yeast since it’s all I had, but I do wonder if bakers would be even cleaner. Thanks again Shady for a super straight forward recipe for neutral. Gonna transfer it to buckets and take advantage of my cold ass garage for a cold crash. I’ll try to strip this weekend!

Posted: **Sat Feb 12, 2022 2:20 pm**

Just transferred the wash to some buckets for a good outdoor cold crash in freezing temps. I’ll make sure to pull up back in the garage before they turn into an ice block.

When I started the siphon I got a free taste of the wash. Couldn’t believe how good it tasted. Reminded me of a nice, clean white wine. Had a touch of fruitiness to it. No yeasty flavor or anything left from the vitamins. Should make a nice drop!

Posted: **Sat Feb 12, 2022 3:56 pm**

The less yeast going into the boiler, the longer the run can go before tails appear.
Cold crashing helps make a better neutral spirit and you get more of it.

Posted: **Sat Feb 12, 2022 4:10 pm**

shadylane wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 3:56 pm The less yeast going into the boiler, the longer the run can go before tails appear.
Cold crashing helps make a better neutral spirit and you get more of it.

Great addition, Shady. Pointers like this help the new brewer a lot! Thanks.
ss

Posted: **Sat Feb 12, 2022 10:38 pm**

shadylane wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 3:56 pm The less yeast going into the boiler, the longer the run can go before tails appear.
Cold crashing helps make a better neutral spirit and you get more of it.

Thanks Shady. In the summertime when I do large ferments, I have to wait a bit for things to settle. Early on, I used to do smaller batches in a couple 5gal buckets and had access to a small chest freezer with a temp controller at 38 degrees for an easy cold crash. Mother Nature is giving me a chance to get it done in the garage in 4 buckets. Should be pretty clear by tomorrow for a stripping run.

I do have a question though, when I strip the wash, do you recommend leaving the late tails in the boiler and stop collection once I reach something like 30 or 40 ABV in the total collected volume? Figured I could just slide an alcometer in the Carboy I’m collecting the low wines in.

Posted: **Sat Feb 12, 2022 10:58 pm**

I do something very similar. For sugar shine, I shut down when the total low wines collection is below 40% ABV. 37% would be my lowest. I put the alcometer in my receiver, but stir it before taking a reading.

Posted: **Sun Feb 13, 2022 1:20 am**

BrewinBrian44 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 10:38 pm
I do have a question though, when I strip the wash, do you recommend leaving the late tails in the boiler and stop collection once I reach something like 30 or 40 ABV in the total collected volume?

I stop stripping when a film begins appearing on the surface of the low-wines.
Usually that happens around 30 -40% abv total.

If you strip a little too far, while trying to decide when to stop.
Gently slide a paper towel across the surface to soak up most of the oil.

Posted: **Sun Feb 13, 2022 3:27 am**

My fermentation has finished, I wanted to share my gravity reading per day, the fermentation finishes somewhere between 6-7 days in my case, I used only epsom salt, dap and boiled yeast.

Day 0: 1.070
Day 1: 1.050
Day 2: 1.030
Day 3: 1.010
Day 4: 1.005
Day 5: 0.996
Day 6: 0.992
Day 7: 0.990

Now I have just started an experiment, doing 2 batches of Shady's Sugar Shine, each are 1 liter and SG is 1.070 wash starting temp is 84.2°F set temp is 86°F I am trying to find out the effects of starting with a low PH so I adjusted 1 batch to 5.2 PH and added oyster shells upfront, and in the other batch I did not add oyster shells so there is no buffer to equalize the PH of the wash it will eventually go down just want to see if it will stall and want to find out where it will stall at what PH ? Also wanted to see if starting at a lower PH will make the fermentation duration faster. Again thanks Shady for this great recipe, it is my favorite, will help me to continue my gin journey.

Posted: **Sun Feb 13, 2022 6:01 am**

I like experiments

Posted: **Sun Feb 13, 2022 6:10 am**

shadylane wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 1:20 am
BrewinBrian44 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 10:38 pm
I do have a question though, when I strip the wash, do you recommend leaving the late tails in the boiler and stop collection once I reach something like 30 or 40 ABV in the total collected volume?
I stop stripping when a film begins appearing on the surface of the low-wines.
Usually that happens around 30 -40% abv total.

If you strip a little too far, while trying to decide when to stop.
Gently slide a paper towel across the surface to soak up most of the oil.

Great advice! Thank you!

Posted: **Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:39 am**

Stripped half of the wash today, the other half is still cold crashing. I added some gelatin to the buckets to try and help it along, works like magic for clearing beer. I got greedy on the last bucket and there was a decent amount of yeast in there that’s taking it’s sweet time to settle out.

When I stripped, I shot for 40% for the total low wines. Looks like I was off by a hair and landed at 38%, temp corrected. Probably the cleanest low wines that ever came off the still. Slight tinge of cloudiness, with no oil floating on top. The low wines have a pleasant buttery smell with a touch of apple ester.

Once I collect all the low wines, my plan is to dilute down to 20% for the spirit run. After doing a little reading on here, sounds like the extra water helps keep the tails in the boiler.

Posted: **Sun Feb 13, 2022 10:02 pm**

artooks wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 3:27 am My fermentation has finished, I wanted to share my gravity reading per day, the fermentation finishes somewhere between 6-7 days in my case, I used only epsom salt, dap and boiled yeast.

Day 0: 1.070
Day 1: 1.050
Day 2: 1.030
Day 3: 1.010
Day 4: 1.005
Day 5: 0.996
Day 6: 0.992
Day 7: 0.990

Now I have just started an experiment, doing 2 batches of Shady's Sugar Shine, each are 1 liter and SG is 1.070 wash starting temp is 84.2°F set temp is 86°F I am trying to find out the effects of starting with a low PH so I adjusted 1 batch to 5.2 PH and added oyster shells upfront, and in the other batch I did not add oyster shells so there is no buffer to equalize the PH of the wash it will eventually go down just want to see if it will stall and want to find out where it will stall at what PH ? Also wanted to see if starting at a lower PH will make the fermentation duration faster. Again thanks Shady for this great recipe, it is my favorite, will help me to continue my gin journey.

IMG_0129.jpeg

In the past I remember I had a sugar wash crash around 1.020, so by looking at the gravity above, would it be reasonable to add CC in powder form at day 2 ? I will also try this. The reason being the PH will probably be somewhere around 4 or maybe less, I will also measure it, so it will be able to dissolve the CC in powder form, that is what I think.

Posted: **Sun Feb 13, 2022 10:20 pm**

Because powdered CC has a large surface area to volume ratio, you have to be careful not to use too much and raise the pH over 7 and break down protein.

Whole shell and slabs of marble are more forgiving and won’t destroy your wash unless you leave them in after the ferment goes dead.

Posted: **Mon Feb 14, 2022 12:44 am**

artooks wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 10:02 pm

In the past I remember I had a sugar wash crash around 1.020, so by looking at the gravity above, would it be reasonable to add CC in powder form at day 2 ? I will also try this. The reason being the PH will probably be somewhere around 4 or maybe less, I will also measure it, so it will be able to dissolve the CC in powder form, that is what I think.

Here's what I'm thinking.
Calcium carbonate works good for a buffer, it's not very good for adjusting pH that's gone too low already.
When you start relying on gravity, pH measurements and/or fermentation time to make decisions.
It's possible to make mistakes and head off in the wrong direction with adjustments.
It's simplest, to have a sock with some crushed oyster shell hanging in the fermenter from the start.

Posted: **Mon Feb 14, 2022 6:46 am**

NZChris wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 10:20 pm Whole shell and slabs of marble are more forgiving and won’t destroy your wash unless you leave them in after the ferment goes dead.

Is that to say I should pull my shells when fermenting stops? My routine is typically ferment a week around 85F, settle a week without heat, strip.

Posted: **Mon Feb 14, 2022 12:23 pm**

TwoSheds wrote: ↑Mon Feb 14, 2022 6:46 am
NZChris wrote: ↑Sun Feb 13, 2022 10:20 pm Whole shell and slabs of marble are more forgiving and won’t destroy your wash unless you leave them in after the ferment goes dead.
Is that to say I should pull my shells when fermenting stops? My routine is typically ferment a week around 85F, settle a week without heat, strip.

That depends on your water, how much you used and how long you let it sit. If there is a chance that you might get called away and can’t get back to run it, it would pay to remove any remaining CC.

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