Ted's Fast Fermenting Vodka

[Rrmuf]

I will join you for an OEG toast!!!! This has been my go-to neutral for the better part of a year now! Congratulations (and Thank you!) Ted

[Garouda]

Congratulations Ted.
After much discussion between Mods, and to and froing on several occasions, it seems that this recipe has made it to TnT.

Congratulations Ted
I asked this last year, mods need time to make up their mind...

[Yummyrum]

Congratulations Ted.
After much discussion between Mods, and to and froing on several occasions, it seems that this recipe has made it to TnT.

Congratulations Ted
I asked this last year, mods need time to make up their mind...

We don’t take raising a recipe to tried and true lightly at HD .
It takes more than just a few saying “it worked for them “….. not that that is not considered , but we must evaluate what merit the recipe has added to the hobby as a whole .

There must be significant improvements over similar recipes . EG , substituting wheat germ over oat bran and calling it “toss potters oat bran “ won’t get you a place in stardom even if 100 people prefer oats to bran .

The thing is that we , the community , have pretty much honed in on a sugar wash recipe now that ticks all the boxes regarding Ideal fermentation Temperature , nutrient requirements , realistic sugar levels and pH adjustments .

In fact , Shadys sugar shine is another “shining” example .

Point is , we have come a long way from the Birdwatchers TPW and we are now at splitting hairs with sugar wash recipes .

So yes , it may have taken us moderators a while to all agree , but on important topics , we think it though .

So, Congratulations Teddy


But to anyone wanting a quick claim to fame , I wouldn’t be expecting to see another sugar wash variant in T&T for a while .

[Teddysad]

Thanks mods. Appreciate the kudos

[Uncle Jesse]

Great work man. Thanks for contributing to our hobby!

[shayner77]

Ok, I’m getting prepared to run this recipe. Once as a cleaning run and then another after

After reading through all of the comments, I did not see any discussion on using DADY as opposed to bread yeast. Maybe I just missed it???

What, if any, are the pros/cons to that change? Is it just keeping costs lower to use the bread yeast?

[Sporacle]

I would think cost and ease of availability, the recipe made it to T and T for a reason, maybe do a side by side and see what you find. I searched and someone had asked the question previously but I think they were angling to up the ABV by using DADY, this recipe works because everything is happy

[shayner77]

I would think cost and ease of availability, the recipe made it to T and T for a reason, maybe do a side by side and see what you find. I searched and someone had asked the question previously but I think they were angling to up the ABV by using DADY, this recipe works because everything is happy

Awesome. Thx for the quick reaponse

[morefog]

I used DADY because that's what I had. Still mashing for my stripping runs but it worked fine for me, well, after I threw out the bag of years open DADY and opened a bag of years sealed DADY. Long story. Just keep your temperatures right. Unfortunately I can't comment on how it impacts the taste, but I can't imagine it could damage a vodka.

[Garouda]

To come back to the T° stuff..
"DADY (Distillers Active Dry Yeast) is a specially selected strain of Saccharomyces Cerevisae designed for distillers use in grain mash fermentations for ethanol. DADY will produce maximum alcohol yields under controlled temperatures (less than 90 °F/32 °C). It has been the choice of many producers in North America for over 20 years."

[bitter]

This is a great recipe. I often use wheat instead of wheatbran at a larger volume as wheatbran is about 17 percent whole wheat berries. I still cook it and more wast in then end but the extra wheat character is worth it.

B

[Rrmuf]

Interesting variation if you want more wheat character in your vodka. I usually don't mind some, but not too much and the wheat bran seems to carry just enough.

[bitter]

Interesting variation if you want more wheat character in your vodka. I usually don't mind some, but not too much and the wheat bran seems to carry just enough.

Other than the slight sugar bite if not rested for some time, about 8 weeks bulk aging seams to help that, Its very close the 100% wheat vodka I have done in the past.. at a faction of the work. I use this in my gin as you loose some character in the second botanical run... Its my go to gin base now over wineos due to the extra flavor. Complements the gin nicely.

B

[Rrmuf]

Interesting variation if you want more wheat character in your vodka. I usually don't mind some, but not too much and the wheat bran seems to carry just enough.

Other than the slight sugar bite if not rested for some time, about 8 weeks bulk aging seams to help that, Its very close the 100% wheat vodka I have done in the past.. at a faction of the work. I use this in my gin as you loose some character in the second botanical run... Its my go to gin base now over wineos due to the extra flavor. Complements the gin nicely.

B

That's exactly what I've used TFFV for ... a base for Gin although I have taken some select cuts aside for use as a vodka.

[Garouda]

That's exactly what I've used TFFV for ... a base for Gin although I have taken some select cuts aside for use as a vodka.

Me too...
But my last gin is made from... molasses and brown sugar cane.
I wanted to make a Rum, but my still is too efficient and gave me a pure neutral !
Likewise, in all VM (CCVM) stills, the output slows down when you reach the tails. I managed to get the last drops @ 78% and blended the last cuts (I make 500ml cuts), it's now ageing with oak and tamarind charcoal, target, a kind of old Rum 5 litres @ 55% ABV, thanks to the tails I could get. With that still, it seems to be impossible to reach 30% and get the famous Rum oils.

[Rrmuf]

That's exactly what I've used TFFV for ... a base for Gin although I have taken some select cuts aside for use as a vodka.

Me too...
But my last gin is made from... molasses and brown sugar cane.
I wanted to make a Rum, but my still is too efficient and gave me a pure neutral !
Likewise, in all VM (CCVM) stills, the output slows down when you reach the tails. I managed to get the last drops @ 78% and blended the last cuts (I make 500ml cuts), it's now ageing with oak and tamarind charcoal, target, a kind of old Rum 5 litres @ 55% ABV, thanks to the tails I could get. With that still, it seems to be impossible to reach 30% and get the famous Rum oils.

LOL. DO you call it Gum? Rin? In any event, i think we are getting off this topic.

[Canuckwoods]

I'm trying this as I have a lot of trouble with sugar washes. Seems to be working great and I could watch the bran volcanos all day. I do have one question about the bran I weighed out the 250g which was about 3-4 cups does that sound right? seems like a lot.

[Bradster68]

I'm trying this as I have a lot of trouble with sugar washes. Seems to be working great and I could watch the bran volcanos all day. I do have one question about the bran I weighed out the 250g which was about 3-4 cups does that sound right? seems like a lot.

The bran is very fluffy so it may seem like a lot. Follow the recipe exactly and you will have success everytime.

[bitter]

I'm trying this as I have a lot of trouble with sugar washes. Seems to be working great and I could watch the bran volcanos all day. I do have one question about the bran I weighed out the 250g which was about 3-4 cups does that sound right? seems like a lot.

Its not that much really.. and this wash works really well. If your water is not really had use oyster shells to help keep ph stable and stop it from crashing. the boiling the wheat bran allows the nutrients out so the yeast gets at it.

I do 200L of this wash and it works well! still finished in a week. Often other washes are not as fast or finish as reliably. Once the wash is done the wheat bran that was not ate by the yeast settles out to the bottom.. Just syphon off the top and your golden.

B

[TwoSheds]

I do a double batch with a pound of wheat bran (that's how it comes) and it's a pretty big bag, so 3 cups sounds in the ballpark, but I'd say just weigh it for consistency.

I use a slight variation on this, mostly just using a yeast nutrient instead of the multivitamin and have had great luck with it, even without pH control! Some other sugar washes have crashed on me but not this one yet.

Which reminds me... Started one yesterday... I should go make sure it hasn't blown out the airlock.

[SCOTIAN RUMRUNNER]

Couple questions I haven't found answers to on site yet.
Did 46 litres of TFFV.

1. if I start the the distillation and collect about about one litre at 170 proof then shut it down for few days is there any problems/issues starting
again? do you need to set aside foreshots again?

2. Ive seen a couple posts about having your neutral on oak, does that not colour the neutral? how do you get back to clear?

Thanks
Steve

[Garouda]

Couple questions I haven't found answers to on site yet.
Did 46 litres of TFFV.

1. if I start the distillation and collect about one litre at 170 proof then shut it down for few days is there any problems/issues starting
again? Do you need to set aside foreshots again?

Assuming it's a stripping run, no problem, of course.
If it's a spirit run, it all depends upon the type of still you are using, a reflux still properly balanced in the beginning of your run would have removed the foreshots.
If it's a pot still, you should remove some ml at the beginning of your run, how many ml depends upon the size of your batch.

2. I've seen a couple posts about having your neutral on oak, does that not colour the neutral? How do you get back to clear?

I've never used oak with a neutral made according to Ted's recipe (TFFV), it's clean stuff. Active carbon is one solution to remove colour.
Oak is mainly used to age your booze, releasing some flavours like vanilla for instance, to clean it, use charcoal or active carbon, charcoal will colour your neutral.

Thanks
Steve

My pleasure.

[Garouda]

I use a slight variation on this, mostly just using a yeast nutrient instead of the multivitamin and have had great luck with it, even without pH control! Some other sugar washes have crashed on me, but not this one yet.

Both nutrient and vitamins are necessary. You're lucky because the most important vitamins for yeasts are from the "B" group, and you find them all in your bran, plus some minerals. I tried another recipe of sugar wash, two 90-litre batches went fine, the third one stalled. Anyhow, the first two took much longer than TFFV.
TFFV is a bulletproof recipe, and I'll stick to it for future fermentations. Ted!

[Garouda]

This is a great recipe. I often use wheat instead of wheat bran at a larger volume, as wheat bran is about 17 percent whole wheat berries. I still cook it and more waste in the end, but the extra wheat character is worth it.
B

By doing so, you'll get close to the Dutch Jenever or the Belgian Péket, a kind of local Gin, but without that dominant Juniperus flavour, almost a neutral with some wheat flavour like you describe it.

[TwoSheds]

Both nutrient and vitamins are necessary. You're lucky because the most important vitamins for yeasts are from the "B" group, and you find them all in your bran, plus some minerals. I tried another recipe of sugar wash, two 90-litre batches went fine, the third one stalled. Anyhow, the first two took much longer than TFFV.
TFFV is a bulletproof recipe, and I'll stick to it for future fermentations. Ted!

Sounds pretty similar to my experience, and yes, I've probably been lucky. The heavy pitch of yeast has to help (not a lot of multiplication needed) and the bran.

Of course, the yeast nutrients are all a 'proprietary blend of herbs and spices' or some crap like that, so who really knows what they're providing? But they do give us some indication that they include some of the Bs:

https://wyeastlab.com/resource/professi ... additions/

[Garouda]

Of course, the yeast nutrients are all a 'proprietary blend of herbs and spices' or some crap like that, so who really knows what they're providing? But they do give us some indication that they include some of the Bs:
https://wyeastlab.com/resource/professi ... additions/

What we usually understand under yeast nutrients are the different minerals provided by DAP and Epsom salts, or similar, not herbs and similar crap.
I opened the link you mention, nitrogen is in DAP and the list of vitamins they mention are mostly B group vitamins. It's better to refer to a scientific article than to a commercial website, though.
If you want to know more about yeasts and nutrients, try to find an article explaining cellular respiration and glycolysis, it's funny to notice the similarity between our human cells and yeasts. You will understand why phosphorus is so important, for example.
BTW, I'm not going to repeat what I wrote earlier in this same thread, in my post on Mon Dec 20, 2021, listing all good stuff we can find in bran.

[bitter]

If you compare things to beer DAP is used also Epson salts as well. And they get there minerals from the mash of the grain as its already there. Wheat Bran has a ton of good stuff in there.

Bunch of vitamins tooo that help the yeast

Vitamin C 0% Calcium 7%
Iron 58% Vitamin D 0%
Vitamin B6 65% Cobalamin 0%
Magnesium 152%

It also adds flavor.

I love Dutch Jenever much more interesting that north American gin.

B

[TwoSheds]

What we usually understand under yeast nutrients are the different minerals provided by DAP and Epsom salts, or similar, not herbs and similar crap.

Sorry, just a stupid joke about 'herbs and spices'.

It's better to refer to a scientific article than to a commercial website, though.
If you want to know more about yeasts and nutrients, try to find an article explaining cellular respiration and glycolysis, it's funny to notice the similarity between our human cells and yeasts.

Agreed, but I had a tough time finding much online. Everything is about how yeast extracts and such are good for people, not so much about what the yeast needs to be healthy. It was much easier to find in the Yeast book, a good reference for anyone getting seriously into things.

I just wish the had to provide nutritional information for the yeast nutrient instead of being all secretive about it.

[Canuckwoods]

Just started the first of two runs so far so good. Avery active fermentation and it went to the end in about a week and no stalls.

[TwoSheds]

Here are some numbers from my most recent TFFV over 7 days (including the OG.) On day 7 I took the heat off and will rest it for a week before stripping.

Day 1: 1.058 (SG)
Day 3: 1.023
Day 5: 0.992
Day 7: 0.991

I use an airlock and this is a double batch. It was very active within hours of pitching the (baker's) yeast and already slowing down by day 3. By day 5 it was very slow and I probably could have called it done then.

So yeah, this recipe definitely earns the 'fast' in the name!