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Starch hydrolysis and conversation will continue throughout the fermentation process, also it increases the risk of infection.

Scooping and squeezing the cap also wouldn't eliminate a final squeeze as not all the material floats.

It's also a little sticky when there's sugar still innit.

-j

Oh, gotcha. Makes sense.

ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:15 pm Wednesday 6pm. 80 Hours from mashing (44 hours from pitch)

Ph - 3.3
Temp - 100
Sg - 1.046 1.03 after refracto conversion calc

Thursday 6pm. 104 Hours from mashing (68 hours from pitch)

Ph - 3.35
Temp - 94
Sg - 1.043 1.025 after refracto conversion calc
Hydrometer - 1.029

So, the activity has cut back to about 50%. Still popping off good, but not the crazy boil. This allowed me to grab a hydro number, though the cap and bubbles probably contributed to a higher reading than reality. We'll see.

Interesting to see the rate that the marble is raising the pH. Since the initial drop, it is compensating and raising it by .5 each day. I have never really documented ph along the way like this, so it has been interesting. I had read a thread on here long ago stating that long mash times contribute to a sharp ph drop. Never worried much about it, just threw the buffers in. But I was glad I tested it before pitching, so I could raise it a little before letting the buffer do its thing.

Even though I'm still going through the documentation, one take away I have is to not only throw the buffer in at mash time, but if you have a long mash time, you may need to raise it a little before you rely on just the buffer. Or not, and just ride the boat as it is .

Just a little observation to be aware of.

I know you answered this before I just can't find it. When filling the keg boiler. I normally fill it until can just feel the water with my fingers. Do you know how many gallons roughly that is ? 3 keg boilers filled that way is how many gallons roughly 36gal or what have you noticed. I wish my blue barrel had gal marks on it maybe it does would be nice to have a good idea how much water I'm using besides dumping gallon at a time to figure it out lol.

Standard half barrel kegs are 15.5 gallons. If you're filling them to the point you can touch the water with your fingers, it would be a safe bet that you're in the 14.5 to 15 gallon range so that would be around 45 gallons for 3 fills.

bcook608 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:30 pm Standard half barrel kegs are 15.5 gallons. If you're filling them to the point you can touch the water with your fingers, it would be a safe bet that you're in the 14.5 to 15 gallon range so that would be around 45 gallons for 3 fills.

Yeah that is my thought I usually try to fill until my finger can touch and it's pretty close to 15g give to take. So 3 fills would get me around 45gallons? I normally do this exact recipe with 30gallons on 2 keg fills over my corn. Want to scale up so trying to figure out where that should put me. Thank you.

Yup to the above.

Another successful mash in one day. Froze a 5 gallon bucket of water but it didn't fully freeze but that and wort chiller help drastically cool. Sitting around 1.064 SG. So not bad at all. Iodine test was good. Closed up and we will see how this jimbos wheat finishes up.

If you make the original recipe with 40 gallons of water after three striping runs and a spirit run, how much liquor do you end up with?

utvol wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 12:54 pm If you make the original recipe with 40 gallons of water after three striping runs and a spirit run, how much liquor do you end up with?

That will depend on your OG and FG. Are you getting perfect conversion?
How much are you getting after each strip run?
What is the ABV of your strip runs?
Lots of variables to determine that outcome.

Bradster68 wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:02 pm

utvol wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 12:54 pm If you make the original recipe with 40 gallons of water after three striping runs and a spirit run, how much liquor do you end up with?

That will depend on your OG and FG. Are you getting perfect conversion?
How much are you getting after each strip run?
What is the ABV of your strip runs?
Lots of variables to determine that outcome.

When I make a large batch AG using approximately 100’ish lbs of grains and maybe 40-45g water for ferment headspace and do 3 strips I’ll fairly consistently yield 2-3g hearts cut @ 120’ish proof depending on various factors including how I feel about the cuts. 2.5g average.

I’m usually doing 2-3 of these in a series that end up getting blended together for a barrel and recycling feints so that’s an average estimate.

Cheers!
-j

jonnys_spirit wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 2:46 pm

Bradster68 wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:02 pm

utvol wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 12:54 pm If you make the original recipe with 40 gallons of water after three striping runs and a spirit run, how much liquor do you end up with?

That will depend on your OG and FG. Are you getting perfect conversion?
How much are you getting after each strip run?
What is the ABV of your strip runs?
Lots of variables to determine that outcome.

When I make a large batch AG using approximately 100’ish lbs of grains and maybe 40-45g water for ferment headspace and do 3 strips I’ll fairly consistently yield 2-3g hearts cut @ 120’ish proof depending on various factors including how I feel about the cuts. 2.5g average.

I’m usually doing 2-3 of these in a series that end up getting blended together for a barrel and recycling feints so that’s an average estimate.

Cheers!
-j

I forgot to add the cuts part. That's also a big variable. I used to be greedy. But now I have my son helping me with fermenting so I'm getting lots of low wines for the spirit run. ( full boiler charge). I'm getting very fussy with what I keep now.

Bradster and Jonny's results are consistent with mine, just on a factor of 2. I mash 50 pounds in around 23 gallons and consistently keep about 1.5 gallons of finished product at 120 proof.
If I'm doing a series, recycling the feints increases my yield and I get about 5.5 to 6 gallons from 3 ferments.

Just a quick plug on this method! Small sample size (2!) but I'm thrilled with my consistent 1.063-1.065 starting gravity using this method with Ferm Solutions enzymes.

Last two batches were 20 gallons, each using two additions of half the corn and 10 gallons boiling water. Waited to add the malts until it dropped to 140 so as to keep corn as hot as possible. High temp enzyme at 180 (basically the mash temp after mashing in second batch of corn). Low temp enzyme with the malts, probably not needed but happy with the conversion.

utvol wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 12:54 pm If you make the original recipe with 40 gallons of water after three striping runs and a spirit run, how much liquor do you end up with?

you could make three batches of the same recipe and still get 3 different final volumes depending on whether or not you're able to EXACTLY replicate all aspects of the conversion and ferment.

You get what you get.

I picked up an old water bed heater off ebay. Wrapped it around my mash barrel. I wrapped that with insulation and covered. The heater has a thermostat so it can keep a constant temp. Helps with cold climate like mine

I’m going to try this in the morning on a 20 gallon batch. See if I need to make changes.
1. Toast the oats
2. Put 22.5 of cornmeal and 1.5 of oats in the fermenter
3. Boil 10 gallons and add it to fermenter, reverse stirring with a mortar mixer
4. Boil 10 more gallons, add 22.5 more cornmeal, then top with boiling water. Stir some more.
5. Add high temp amalase.
6. Wrap and let it sit overnight.
7. At 150 add my malts and gluco amalase
8. Toss in some frozen jugs to get temp down
9. Pitch yeast

Housemoney wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 11:45 am I’m going to try this in the morning on a 20 gallon batch. See if I need to make changes.
1. Toast the oats
2. Put 22.5 of cornmeal and 1.5 of oats in the fermenter
3. Boil 10 gallons and add it to fermenter, reverse stirring with a mortar mixer
4. Boil 10 more gallons, add 22.5 more cornmeal, then top with boiling water. Stir some more.
5. Add high temp amalase.
6. Wrap and let it sit overnight.
7. At 150 add my malts and gluco amalase
8. Toss in some frozen jugs to get temp down
9. Pitch yeast

I do similar in a 30 gallon blue barrel. Key for me was insulation to keep it warm. I wrap with a cheap Walmart sleeping bag and put folded canvas drop cloths under and on top. I insulate before I start. My normal is 17 gallons of water but I've done 23. It gets heavy fast, if you're going to move it around start with a dolly under the ferment vessel.

I do just under 2 lb/gallon you're at 2.4, should work fine but lighter is a little easier. I end up around 8% after ferment which gives me around 125-135 proof after strip/spirit/cuts.

Start with a little corn, add some water, mix, repeat until it's all in. You'll get a feel quickly, dough balls are easier to prevent than break up.

Check the temp after you dump all the water in, if it's below AA temp put it in then. If not mix some more until you get there. Mine is always around 185F after the dump my enzymes are good for 190F so my measurement just makes me feel good. With fermsolutions enzymes I can add the remaining corn on the second dump before adding more water. Put in corn until it starts making dough balls then add more water. No need to wait to add the high temp enzymes til the end

Make sure to measure temp after mixing, mine is 2-3 degrees F higher afterwards.

I’ve read on here corn meal mixes easily with cold water. Does anyone do that and then add boiling water? This is my first time with meal.

Cold water will prevent dough balls but it also lowers the temp after the boiling water is added. I've never tried it so I don't know how much it will hurt the conversion.

It's not bad if you add small amounts of water and corn while running the mixer. Add some water, run mixer to get vortex going, add corn to the vortex.

A extra hand makes this even easier, one hand on boiling water valve, one hand running mixer, third hand adding corn to the vortex the mixer makes. I can do it by myself but if a helper is available I do it this way.

It was a fail for me, but a learning experience.
First 10 gallons I added about 2.5 of the corn at a time while stirring with my mixer. No dough balls but it got my temperature way too low.

The second 10 gallon I followed the OP directions and dumped it all in and stirred. No dough balls. I covered the top with a blanket as the syphon drained the rest of the boiled water.

Didn’t get it hot enough to gelatinize the corn. It’s at 145 now and I guess I’ll dump it tomorrow and go get more cornmeal.

Housemoney wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 11:19 pm It was a fail for me, but a learning experience.

The key is get everything hot enough at the start and keep it hot as long as possible. Use your new experience to eliminate whatever prevented that.

I'm set up like SCD, electric boiler on bench, drain above ferment vessel. Everything insulated when I add water.

If it didn't even try to make dough balls I think the water wasn't hot enough when you added corn. I get the boiler to a full rolling boil. After I add corn it's around 185F. Takes 5-10 minutes to add all the water and corn on each dump.

When I use enzymes a layer of syrup is floating at the top when I open it up for the second dump. Never really makes mush with the enzymes.

It takes about 20 hours for mine to cool to 145F, if your temp drops more quickly try more insulation.

My barrel is insulated. I think having the top off for probably a half hour while steadily stirring it did me in.

I took a look at my notes. It takes me 5 minutes to do a dump. Getting that routine down pat should give you a lot better results.

I keep harping on insulation because it was the weakness in my early setups. Once I improved that my results improved. I'll shutup about it.

It seems you're dumping too slow and spending too much time stirring. As stated above, I can bring 12 gallons or so of water to a rolling boil in my still and empty it onto 24 pounds of corn in about 5 to 7 minutes. I use a mortar mixer on a heavy-duty drill to do the mixing.
I start with about 5 pounds of corn meal in the bottom of the barrel and open the drain on my boiler. As the water is pouring in, I mix with the drill. I pour about half the water into the barrel, and finish breaking up any dough balls. I pour in the rest of first load of corn, open the drain and drain the boiler as I stir with the drill. once the boiler is empty, I've got all the corn well mixed, and I seal it up and put a blanket over it.
Then I refill the boiler for the next round. Once the water is at a rolling boil, I add any remaining corn, open the valve and drain the water over the corn as I stir. once its thoroughly mixed I add my HT enzymes and seal it up. I don't touch it again for about half an hour.
Over the course of the next 3 hours, I may stir it 3 more times. then I let it sit overnight wrapped up in insulation.
In the morning its all broken down and there is a deep layer of clear yellow nectar on the top and its down to near 150F. I stir it up, add my malts, and ensure everything is well mixed with no dough balls and let it sit for about 2 to 3 hours with no insulation on it. At 110F I add my other enzymes, let it sit an hour or so and then crash the temp to my yeast's preferred temperature.
It's usually less than 24 hours from when I start milling grains to when I pitch yeast. (Unless I's starting with whole corn)

Housemoney wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 11:19 pm It’s at 145 now and I guess I’ll dump it tomorrow and go get more cornmeal.

Don't dump it just yet. As long as you added your HT enzymes, the corn should be thin enough to stir. Try removing 3-4 gallons and heat up slowly on the stovetop, stirring constantly until the temp is raised to 170-180F. Adding a little (boiling) water won't hurt. Repeat as necessary. Depending on available pots/pans, you could also (simultaneously) put a pot/covered casserole in a 200F oven to gel. s_s does this quite successfully.

Lastly, if you prefer not to try this, you could always squeeze what you have and recover at least a portion of what has been partially converted. Adding your malts to your squeezins could finish the mash provided you raise the temp back up to 147F or so.

Just a thought...

Twisted Brick wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 2:04 pm Depending on available pots/pans, you could also (simultaneously) put a pot/covered casserole in a 200F oven to gel. s_s does this quite

I've done similar to see what time/temp does. 190F+ for a few hours will get fantastic conversion. My limit was how much weight I would trust the oven rack to support. To save some corn I don't think it's worth it. If you can learn, knowledge is priceless.

Think I’m giving this another try tomorrow. 20 gallon of the crow bourbon. I’m using a 9 gallon pot with a drain on it this time. I’ve got an induction burner to heat it with.
Boil 6.6 gallons of water
Mix 8.3 of the cornmeal
Do that twice putting in the rest of the meal.
Use the last 6.6 gallons to cool it down.
Using the enzymes discussed in this thread

My fermenter is wrapped in insulation and I’m putting a sleeping bag over that. My garage is probably 70 degrees.

Any input is appreciated. I’m anxious to fill a barrel with this.

Housemoney wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 1:41 pm Boil 6.6 gallons of water
Mix 8.3 of the cornmeal
Do that twice putting in the rest of the meal.

Use the last 6.6 gallons to cool it down.
Using the enzymes discussed in this thread

My fermenter is wrapped in insulation and I’m putting a sleeping bag over that.

I do similar with some differences.

I only add boiling water to keep the temp as high as possible. I usually have 180F + after a water dump. I would do three dumps of boiling water + 1/3 of the corn with your plan.

I use a blue barrel with a sleeping bag around it and 2 or 3 inches of folded canvas drop cloths under and on top. Make sure you inuslate the top and bottom.

I don't do anything to drop temps until I'm well under 120F and only then to prevent wild ferments getting started.

You want to get as much time at temp as possible to make up for lower than optimum temp. It takes me around 16 hours to drop to malt temps. Then another 24 hours to get to 120F when I throw in a wort chiller. This process isn't for anyone in a hurry.

As far as using enzymes, it definitely helps. I got some good advice in this thread you have to ignore the off topic BS posts.
viewtopic.php?t=90902

Not sure if I’m getting conversion. It was 195 at 6 last night, 182 this morning. Got home around 3 and it was 150, but water was on top and corn was on the bottom. I used the high temp amalaze last night. Stirred it up and got to 145 so I added my malts. Can’t put the low temp in until 110 to 95