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Hi Wineo,

Thanks for the recipe. I'm really eager to get it started!!

I'm slowly getting through the 23 pages (on page 13 now).

I want to make a 80L batch. So i'll use your method mentioned on the first page & just upscale it.

Now the question I have, currently I don't have D.A.P or Gypsum & won't be able to get any until the weekend or possible in the next few days. Could I make up the batch without using the D.A.P & Gypsum and add (if necessary) later?

I don't know my pH levels of my water but my brew store sells paper testers (2.8 - 4.6) $4.95 (AUD) for 5. These tests seem low in pH reading... I've read so far that people have had 7's etc. Could you buy the testers at a pool shop?

Edit - My bad. I'm an idiot. I won't get far without D.A.P.

My recipe for 80L:
13.6kg Sugar (10%)
3.5 tsp of Citric Acid
3.5 tsp of DAP
3.5 tsp Calcium Sulphate (Gypsum)
3.5 pinches of Epsom Salts
1 ¾ Cup Bakers Yeast (Sprinkle on top)
Tsp = Teaspoon

Anything wrong with this recipe before I start it?

Seems like a lot of yeast to me, but I always seem to use less that most folk do. I reckon that I'd use about half that or even less maybe.

blanikdog wrote:Seems like a lot of yeast to me, but I always seem to use less that most folk do. I reckon that I'd use about half that or even less maybe.

Ok. Recon maybe 1 cup? I can always add if need be.
I'm in no rush for this to finish. I have waited 2weeks for fermentation for BW's and now waiting 1week to clear.
I'm looking for the most odourless/tasteless mix I can get regardless of finishing time.
I've got a 30L fermenter aswell if I need something quicker.

Edit: Just finished reading all 23 pages Think I better do some work now

1 Cup should suffice... Actually, the amount of yeast pitched won't have much effect on flavor, it only makes a difference in the lag period between pitching and the anaerobic fermentation phase... It will still take the same number of yeast to fully ferment a given volume of wash, whether you start with 1 gram or 1 pound... The amount of yeast in the trub will be virtually the same at the end of the ferment... Where there is a slight difference in this scenario is if a large initial yeast colony generates excessive heat, or if your wash temperature fluctuates a lot... Under extreme conditions, where the yeast colony grows way beyond the numbers needed for the volume of the wash, causing extreme yeast density, the colony might switch into full cannibalistic mode and kill themselves off instead of feeding on sugar and turning it into CO2 and ethanol...

rad14701 wrote:1 Cup should suffice...

Awesome. I've got a temp sticker on the fermenter so I'll try to keep the temps stable.

How about my other ingredients? Enough Acids/Nutrients etc?

Busted with the plane ole sugar wash!!!!


I got a new bike last week and put some pics up on another website, well I get some PMs asking WTF do I have in the shed !!!

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Good ole tried true and tested wineos plane ole sugar wash clearing up nicely ready to be run the next day!!!!

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Thanks for the awsome recipe man, it has given me gallons of clean beautiful alcohol and plenty of blurry nights with no headaches the next day

rad14701 wrote:. It will still take the same number of yeast to fully ferment a given volume of wash, whether you start with 1 gram or 1 pound.

I stated my washes with 1/4 cup of distillers per 5 gal carboy, the pic above is the third generation run (saved the stuff left over from racking and just added sugar water and DAP). Its now on its 4th generation and down to 1020 as of today after 1 week bubbling

Im cheap as hell and not using any of my yeast stash is thrifty

Are you using Culigan bottles as fementors? Kind of cool if so! I'll swipe a bunch of them if so. Best bottles are greater but kind of expensive!

DocDave

docdave wrote:Are you using Culigan bottles as fementors? Kind of cool if so! I'll swipe a bunch of them if so. Best bottles are greater but kind of expensive!

DocDave

Those blue water bottles are what I use... All of the water machine companies use the same basic styles in several sizes... Wish I had room for a few more...

Just finished puting my first WPOSW together with 4kg sugar and the rest of the ingredients, pitched 1/2 cup of bakers yeast and bam within half an hour I had yeast foam pushing thru the airlock.
Replaced the airlocks on both fermenters with a blow off tube into a bottle of water.
Really looking forward to this, I ve been saving stripped runs for when I get my reflux still built.
one question tho.
Can I use something like polyclar to clear the wash before I run it? Its quite warm here atm and have no way of refrigerating the wash to clear nor will it get cold enough at night to do it.

you could but not necessary. after ferment stops stir/shake what ever to dislodge co2,
then waite a day and most will settle out.

RD and Dnder,

Are Culligan bottles legit to use as fermentors. What's your call on this?

DocDave

docdave wrote:RD and Dnder,

Are Culligan bottles legit to use as fermentors. What's your call on this?

DocDave

Yes, they are fine for wash fermentation but not of low wines or spirits storage...

Thanks Rad,

That's the last time I ever buy a better bottle carboy! I'm starting to do more fermentations so i keep running out of fermentors. I currently have a 24 gallon WPOSW running so cheap reliable fementors will come in handy especially if I decide to rack off larger batches. I'm just kicking myself that I didn't think of it first. If this catches on, Culligan bottles will become as scarse as SS beer kegs!

DocDave

watch those bottles, they do crack after awhile.maybe use a few times the trade them in and git new?

OK,
Running LM/VM with 34L pot (without packing).......
Got one more stripping run to do, then will have done 9 stripping runs to get 15 ltrs of 60% abv.
I always have thrown out the first 300ml, then collected down to anything 50% abv or above.
Generally get around 2 ltrs. First couple runs got a little less (learning).
So, diluting 15 ltrs of 60% abv will give me approx 23 ltrs of 40% abv (if my figuring is close).
And, finally will have me a Spirit run to do.
Will finally be able to put my packing in and try her out in reflux mode.
Question = When running VM in "pot still mode", would one not cut the top condenser off and plug the
vent hole in it's top, therefore forcing vapor into the Lebig condenser ?
I haven't been doing that, I'd open the LM valve when temp reached 143F deg, collect first 300ml,
then open VM and collect from both outlets, but, not a lot comes out the VM.
I had the top condenser going during this process, etc......
Had a few drinks from the low wines I've been collecting and got a good buzz, AND, no hangover/headache,
just doesn't taste too mellow, gotta add soda pop, etc......
Have a nice day.
Oxbo

This is a summary of this thread. Searching for subject "peacock post" should bring it up rather easily. I have found myself searching through the tread for certain information from time to time so this is an attempt to make it a little easier. All information comes from the man himself! Thanks Wineo!

I have been working on a simple recipe for a neutral sugar wash without a bunch of extra stuff in it to cause flavors, and this is it. It’s real simple.
This is for a 6 gallon wash.
8 pounds of sugar{dissolved in hot water}
1 tsp of citric acid
1 tsp of DAP (Just Diammonium Phosphate, not “yeast nutrients!”) Stay away from urea etc.
1 tsp of gypsum{You can get this from a beer making supplier}
A pinch of Epsom salts{Less than 1/8 of a tsp}
1/4 cup of distillers yeast, or 1/2 cup of baker’s yeast{sprinkled on top}
Dissolve your sugar in hot water and mix until its dissolved real good.
Add the DAP, gypsum, acid and Epsom salts, and stir until it’s all dissolved.
Add this to your fermenter, and add enough cool water to make 6 gallons.
The starting SG should be 1070-1080SG.Dont go over 1080SG for best results.
Check the temp, and once its 95f or under, sprinkle the yeast on top.
After 15-20 minutes, give it a good stir to mix things up, and get some air mixed in. You can cover the fermentor with a cloth, or use an airlock.
Depending on the fermenting temp, this will work off in a week or two.
Don’t rush it. Let it finish to dryness, and give it another week to clear before running it.
I potstill this wash. It is very neutral, and very clean. It will make a clean neutral, potstilled or refluxed.
By using a large amount of yeast, you don’t have to add a bunch of extra nutrients and additives to get it to work, and the less stuff you add, the less it will influence flavors.
All you novice distillers using turbo yeast out there, Try this, and you will be done with turbos, carbon filtering, Etc.

So, how do YOU do it?
I add the acid to a cooled down wash. I usually add everything else to the hot sugar water mix, and add cool water to cool it down before adding acid, and yeast. I wouldn’t pinch your yeast any warmer than 80f for best results, and try to keep the sg lower than 1080. At 1060SG, it works real well. As far as PH goes, anywhere between 5.0-6.0 is good.

Just a note on this sugar wash.
I started a new one Tuesday night, but used more yeast.
I used 1 cup of baker’s yeast in 6 gallons of 1070SG wash with the same amounts of everything else. It fermented to 1000Sg in 4 days and is past 990 today. I’m going to rack it Tuesday, and then let it clear for a week. I’m going to start another one with the same yeast.
Is that much yeast actually needed for this recipe? I have little experience with sugar head. I've only ran it helping' out friends learn new stills. So, is that much yeast necessary? How does a half-cup, or a cup of baker’s yeast compare to say, 3 tablespoons of baker’s yeast in a 6 gallon wash?

A cup of yeast isn’t necessary, but does speed up the fermentation time. Kind of like a homemade turbo without the bad flavors. The 3 tablespoons method will work with extra nutrients added as long as the gravity isn’t too high, but the extra nutrients also add flavors.
By using a 1/4 cup of distillers, or a 1/2 cup of baker’s yeast, you can keep the added nutrients to a minimum which will make a cleaner wash. Some of the yeast always dies in the wash, and add the needed nutrients for the cells that survive.
The 1 cup per 6 gallons just works faster. I will let you all know if there is any flavor difference. I’ve been buying baker’s yeast for $2.19 a pound so it’s only about .60 cents worth of yeast, and I plan on using over and over also.
I’m always monkeying around with things; I've learned a lot that way.


What’s the best way to clear?

The baker’s yeast doesn’t clear as fast as the distiller yeast, but they will usually clear by themselves in a week or so.
Like Dunderhead said, degassing it once it’s done will speed things up alot. It also helps to rack it off the yeast sediment.
I let mine clear for 4-5 days, and rack it into a clean container, and leave it for a few more days. It will clear fast after racking.
I have one clearing now that I started on the 15th.Its been done for a few days. I will rack it tonight, and let it set till Tuesday when I will run 1/2 of it.
**The distillers yeast did great on it. I have a batch made with SAF instant bread yeast loaded in the boiler now. I will run it tonight and let you know how it compared. The only drawback with the baker’s yeast is that it doesn’t clear as easy as the distillers yeast. I let mine set for a week to settle and racked 1/2 of it in the boiler, and the other half in buckets to settle until next week. The clearer you can get it, the better. I started my fermentor back up with the same recipe, and the same yeast. I will let it set longer, since I still have lots of stuff in the works to run. I always run everything pretty slow, so we will see if mine is yeasty or not. It’s destined to get ran again anyway. Im saving it up for a big 2nd run before it gets too hot to run.

** Once the fermentation slows way down, wait for a week, and rack it to a clean container, making sure to splash it quite a bit, while racking, and make sure to leave the sediment behind when racking. It should clear pretty fast, once you have done this.

Opinions on different yeasts?

I have ran quite a few of these washes now with different yeasts, and IMO, the superstart distillers yeast is the most neutral, and clears out faster than the bakers yeast. I used the SAF instant baker’s yeast, and I have one going now with red star, but I don’t expect it to be different than the SAF.I have been potstilling all of these, so if you’re using a reflux, you probably won’t see much difference in flavors. It does make a big difference clearing the wash of most of the yeast, as it comes out allot cleaner because of less ester production. Im saving all this neutral up for a 12 gallon spirit run

Length of clearing?

Clearing it for a month isn’t going to hurt anything, but it is slow. Racking it a few times over a week or so should speed it up a lot. It doesn’t have to be super clear to run it, but clearer=cleaner with any of the neutrals, or vodka runs. I have let some of my washes set for months, after being racked a few times simply because I couldn’t get around to running them. When it gets too hot around here to do a run, I will probably have allot of wash clearing for a month. At least it will be good and clear when I get around to it.

What if I’m making a larger batch? after many runs, have you picked a favorite yeast?

Using quite a bit of yeast is the key to success when fermenting plain sugar like this recipe. It’s my understanding that 1118 is a killer strain of yeast, and if mixed with other strains, It will kill them, so you might not want to mix it. With baker’s yeast, you would want to use the correct amount, or it will be real slow. If you’re doing allot of this recipe, like I do, don’t skimp on the yeast. I have got the best results from using Crosby+Bakers superstart distillers yeast. It is a little cleaner than the baker’s yeast, and it clears faster, and ferments faster also. I make it 26 gallons at a time in a 30 gallon Rubbermaid can.
I use a cup of distillers yeast. When using the red star, or the SAF,I use a pound of the stuff.{4 cups}It only cost 2.12 a pound, and always does the job, but it takes allot longer to clear. The degassing helps a bunch. Get some distillers yeast. You won’t be sorry. Its $ 8.00 a pound, but that will do 4 large batches for 2 bucks a batch. You can also reuse it over and over. The baker’s yeast won’t let you do that without adding more.

Any info on reusing the Distillers yeast?
It does well, just save what’s on the bottom, pour it in a gallon jug, add some PHd water, and add some sugar. When the starter gets done, drain most of the liquid, and start it again. You will have one hell of a starter. I’ve reused it 3-4 times on sugar washes and rum. Just stay under 1080SG for best results

Is it necessary to stir the wash?
I usually stir mine in the first 24 hours to mix up everything, but it’s not really required.

How do you feel about baking soda?
Doing some bicarb on an already stripped spirit run should clean it up a little more. I have a friend that refluxes this stuff to 85% in one run, and it’s awful clean, but cleaner can’t hurt. I potstill it till I have 12 gallons, making cuts on every run, then potstill all 12 gallons, making more cuts. It tastes like water, almost. It gets even better if you go for the xxx run. Most people stop there, but the xxxx run will set you free!

I have made these washes with allot of different variations, and I will try to break it down for you all.

Raw sugar gives a little rum flavor, and a little more heads and tails.
Molasses {one jar of grandmas} and raw sugar makes nice white rum.
White sugar and a jar of molasses also make nice light rum.
All brown sugar and 2 jars of molasses make real nice light white rum. Even better if oaked.
Keep the gravity low on all of these, and if using molasses, cut back on the sugar some.
Now, that we have that covered, let’s talk yeast. If you’re looking for any rum flavor, always use baker’s yeast for the best flavors.
If you want the cleanest neutral, with as little flavor as possible, use the distillers yeast. It makes the cleanest version of this recipe, by far. Make sure to clear it real good before running, because any yeast in the boiler, will cause more bad esters. {Flavors}

You ever get that XXXX run done?
I did finally do a XXXX run on this recipe. It’s mighty fine!

Anno,

Lots of good info here. Should get all the novice distillers to have a look! Keep up the good work!

DocDave

P.S. Where doyou get your superstart distillers yeast?

Think about the only place you can get it is online. I usually go to google, search for "distillers yeast," then hit shopping on the top of the page. It brings you back results from different pages from across the web. You can sort by relevance, cost, etc. I usually check a couple different to see who's cheaper as it pretty much all comes from Crosby+Bakers anyway..

I've started my 80L WPOSW.
Sprinkled the yeast at 36*C. It was getting to late to wait until 35*.
I left the Airlock off for the night and the following morning I decided to chuck it on.
It's slowly bubbling, not hugely like my Birdwatchers or AllBran had. It also doesn't have the Foam like the other too had.

Anything I should add?

my recipe was:
13.6kg Sugar
3.5 tsp of Citric Acid
3.5 tsp of DAP
3.5 tsp Calcium Sulphate (Gypsum)
3.5 pinches of Epsom Salts
1 Cup Bakers Yeast.

Folks,

I had a WPOSW ferment stall on me because the temperature in the garage dipped fairly low one night. Starting at 1.075 ansd stalled at 1.030. I was thinking of putting an aquarium heater in to get the ferment back to temp. Quick question, can I pitch more baker's yeast to get things going or should I consider adding EC1118 to help things along?

DocDave

I had a wash stall because of lowering temp - the minute it started to heat up, it took off as per usual.

BD and Annolyx,

I put a cheap aquarium heater in the ferment, didn't add anything else. It took off and by the time it reached 72F, it was bubbling away happily. Thanks for the advice. It looks like I better get my act in gear, I gonna strip 24 gal of WPOSW this week. I know the holidays are here but I want to do a bunch of stilling before christmas. BTW, I was watching TV last night drinking my own likker! It doesn't get any better than this!

Cheers DocDave

Hi all,

I just bought a cheap Aquarium heater aswell ($14 including shipping).
Just wondering what the ideal temperature setting would be for the wash? My heater goes from 20-34*C.

depending on yeast,but 24-27c. should do for most.

Dnderhead wrote:depending on yeast,but 24-27c. should do for most.

It's Lowans Dried Instant Yeast.

hmmm... it's currently sitting on I think 25c at the moment (stick on thermometer on outside) I'll have to double check when I get home from work. But I'm pretty sure it's been sitting on that for awhile now. I thought it was too low because it hasn't been bubbling much at all. It's been quite cool/rainy here lately, usually my Wash' have a higher temperature.

I'll check the SG level tonight aswell. But I used 13.6Kg of white sugar in my 80L wash. Which should have a SG of 1.065 (I didn't do initial check) and I checked the gravity yesterday and it was on 1.040.

Edit: I started my Wash last Thursday 16th. According to the change of SG levels in the 3 days. It seems alright to me. Maybe I've got a leak in the lid seal or the Bung isn't sitting tight enough.

Sidewinder,

The temp scale on my aquarium heater is not very accurate. I think you will have to monkey with the temp adjustment and a good thermometer to get right temperature.

DocDave

docdave wrote:Sidewinder,

The temp scale on my aquarium heater is not very accurate. I think you will have to monkey with the temp adjustment and a good thermometer to get right temperature.

DocDave

Ah k thanks.
I think mine won't be accurate... it only costed me $14 lol.
My Wash is sitting on 26C at the moment.
How accurate are those stick-on thermometers?

that would depend on what you have it on..mettle conducts more heat so would be best glass next and plastic
would depend on type and thickness.as plastic acts as an insulator.