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How many generations can you go? how do you know if you have gone too long?

Sugar washes as known to get pretty acidic, especially if your dumping acid into it every other week. But, as long as you can control the pH of the ferment, you can go on indefinitely. I think someone made it up to 20 gens or something. I've always found that after 6-8 gens however, it stops changing too much of the flavor profile and just deepens the flavors you've already made.

I switched out the corn over the weekend, I found that the pieces were getting smaller and clogging my siphon, I save the back set though. I would guess this was about 10-12 generations record keeping is not a strong suit.

Canuckwoods wrote:I switched out the corn over the weekend, I found that the pieces were getting smaller and clogging my siphon, I save the back set though. I would guess this was about 10-12 generations record keeping is not a strong suit.

try a baseball sized copper scrubby on the end, covered in cheesecloth, all done up with a tie wrap. cheap and easy, it keeps all the solids in the pail.

Ferment in a big trash can (20 gal+) or wine fermenter, transfer to still via 2 gallon bucket, slop style. Catch lil corn bits out at the boiler with a strainer.

I learned quick that a siphon takes to long and is just a nuisance with large quantities of UJSSM.

Canuckwoods wrote:How many generations can you go? how do you know if you have gone too long?

If you read back a bit you will see that Ive come out the other side of 5O generations with out any problems. I gave up counting at 50 . At least one other person that I know is running UJ that has that many generations behind it as I gave them Grain and Yeast from my grain bed as well as backset to get them going. At that stage I only had about 20 gens up.
PH is a none Issue for me ..Ive never adjusted it or had to, Keeping backset to 4-5L in 28-30L ferment should save any problems.

Saltbush Bill wrote:

Canuckwoods wrote:How many generations can you go? how do you know if you have gone too long?

If you read back a bit you will see that Ive come out the other side of 5O generations with out any problems. I gave up counting at 50 . At least on other person that I know is running UJ that has that many generations behind it as I gave them Grain and Yeast from my grain bed as well as backset to get them going. At that stage I only had about 20 gens up.
PH is a none Issue for me ..Ive never adjusted it or had to, Keeping backset to 4-5L in 28-30L ferment should save any problems.

+1 on the PH "issue"

Wanting to give this a try. I mash in 50 gal drum. My mash usually takes about 14 days to fully complete. I see where this recipe being pulled to run in 3-4 days? Do I let it go until fermentation is complete? Confused...

Let it run to completion like all washes. Yeasties really love corn so it's a more active ferment.

I usually see about two weeks to complete a ferment, but my generation 1&2&3 USJM thundered through in about 3 days. Things slowed a bit after but it was still faster than I could run it.

Hope that helps

Yep 4 days to dryness... through gen 10. There is an enormous amount of yeast in my pail, plus I add nutrients above n beyond.

I’m on my 4the gen of this with great success, and have managed to read about 3/4 of this thread, and don’t think I’ve seen this question answered yet.

I have a few gallons of stripping runs from some other recipes (birdwatchers and one from a bunch of old hard cider mixed with some old pear wine and raspberry wine). These were stripped on my pot still, and at around 40%. The birdwatchers is neutral/slightly tomatoey, the stripped fruit run is somewhat estery. These are straight up typical stripping runs, dumped the fore and collected down to 20%

I’ve been contemplating adding a gallon or so of these low wines to one of my to my next UJ stripping runs with hopes of imparting the corn/sour mash flavor to them and boosting the yield a bit. Any thoughts, or am I risking it?

HDNB wrote:

Canuckwoods wrote:I switched out the corn over the weekend, I found that the pieces were getting smaller and clogging my siphon, I save the back set though. I would guess this was about 10-12 generations record keeping is not a strong suit.

try a baseball sized copper scrubby on the end, covered in cheesecloth, all done up with a tie wrap. cheap and easy, it keeps all the solids in the pail.

I use racking cane with a stainless hose braid over the end (same one I use in my cooler mash tun). The end is crimped, and no big bits get through, and the end doesn’t clog.

Quick question. I just ran 13 gallons of ~40% low wines from several UJSSM stripping runs. I got jars 1-8 (half gallon jars) of 87% and then # 9 85% at #10 at 84% then the next 3 or 4 jars fell off from 80 to 65%. I stopped it there because I ran out of time. I am guessing I will be in the tails pretty soon (if not already) and it would continue to fall off quick. That would put my heart yields at a very low percent compared to my heads.

I am used to running neutrals with a SS keg pot still that I added a outer coil on the column and copper scruppers to help get a bit of a "reflux effect". This works well for neutrals but I think I just ran all the flavor out of my attempted sour run. Does this sound right? My thought would be to chuck it all back in the still with what was left from yesterdays run and try to rerun without the column coil to see if I can get it to come off lower than I did. Is there an issue with doing this besides my waste of a day yesterday? Also, If the idea is to collect between 70 and 80 and you start coming off at 80 then wouldn't you be getting all the heads smeared in with what you would be collecting?

My other option is to blend them as is cutting the heads and tails an having more of a nuetral spirtit with a little flavor but I would hate for the last 2 months of generation runs to be a waste.

Any advice is appreciated.

Danny C wrote:Quick question. I just ran 13 gallons of ~40% low wines from several UJSSM stripping runs. I got jars 1-8 (half gallon jars) of 87% and then # 9 85% at #10 at 84% then the next 3 or 4 jars fell off from 80 to 65%. I stopped it there because I ran out of time. I am guessing I will be in the tails pretty soon (if not already) and it would continue to fall off quick. That would put my heart yields at a very low percent compared to my heads.

I am used to running neutrals with a SS keg pot still that I added a outer coil on the column and copper scruppers to help get a bit of a "reflux effect". This works well for neutrals but I think I just ran all the flavor out of my attempted sour run. Does this sound right? My thought would be to chuck it all back in the still with what was left from yesterdays run and try to rerun without the column coil to see if I can get it to come off lower than I did. Is there an issue with doing this besides my waste of a day yesterday? Also, If the idea is to collect between 70 and 80 and you start coming off at 80 then wouldn't you be getting all the heads smeared in with what you would be collecting?

My other option is to blend them as is cutting the heads and tails an having more of a nuetral spirtit with a little flavor but I would hate for the last 2 months of generation runs to be a waste.

Any advice is appreciated.

"Semi-stills" are not easy to work, since most of the knowledge here relates to "One- or- t'other" - I run a "semi" too and take a "One and done" - with "feints" from previous runs added to my still charge - heads come out c 70%abv and "Hearts" c 60%abv average.

I've never tried to "Doube distil" with my kit - but when I started it was n something similar to UJSSSM and it worked ok with "my system" on a single run.

Yes I think you have removed the bulk of the flavour.

Whether you can put it back, I don't know.

Perhaps you could add a little back to future runs as per my "Feints" and run it as "one and a halfs" - I'd say you probably could. Say 1 gallon in a 5 gallon wash - should bring your abv up a lot - but my own feeling is that 60%abv is plenty high enough !

But at the end of the day - your kit is your kit and they all run different .

Otherwise - you have booze - infuse it and see what delights you can make it into !

Hi guys,
I did 10 generations with the original recipe and already read the first 76 pages. I do apologize if my question is answered on the pages I haven't read yet. I would like to start a new batch with the last backset and use 5 pounds of cracked corn, 2 pounds of milled rye and 7 pounds of sugar. Can you please tell me if I have to add more rye for every new batch while I am scooping spent corn? What do you think about 5 pounds corn and 2 pounds rye grain bill? Shall I blend the rye to almost flour or just mill it? Any suggestions highly appreciated.

angus_young wrote:Hi guys,
I did 10 generations with the original recipe and already read the first 76 pages. I do apologize if my question is answered on the pages I haven't read yet. I would like to start a new batch with the last backset and use 5 pounds of cracked corn, 2 pounds of milled rye and 7 pounds of sugar. Can you please tell me if I have to add more rye for every new batch while I am scooping spent corn? What do you think about 5 pounds corn and 2 pounds rye grain bill? Shall I blend the rye to almost flour or just mill it? Any suggestions highly appreciated.

I'd think you'll be fine just replacing the corn but the rye flavour will fade with each batch unless you add some more. The ratio will be up to you really, nobody can tell you what your taste buds will like. I may be wrong but I think you'll be fine with just milling the grain. Ain't like your mashing it's just a sugarhead. I've done some similar sugar washes with good results

Thanks Antler24, I will do as you suggested and add more rye depending on the taste of the last batch.

I could use some advice....
I'm only on my second generation of UJSSM, my first wash took 2 weeks to ferment, my second wash just took 3 weeks and finished at 1.01....I did check the ph of the last wash which was at 4.5 so it was kinda low, curious how best to raise it?
It seems like I'm leaving at least
1 1/2 gallons of finished mash in the fermenter which I can't remove. Then adding 2 gallons of backset to a 12 gallon wash, considering there's already 1 1/2 of wash which can't be removed, so I figured I was at the 25% backset in the recipe. I could really use some advice.....
What am I doing wrong

4.5 is fine for yeast, you're doing something else wrong. How much are you pitching? What temp fermenting at?

Thanks for jumping in BP.....
I pitched 1 cup of distillers yeast initially, for a 14 gallon batch, little bit more than Jesse recommended. Temps during ferment were 85+- initially eventually dropping to 75f I then added a small heater but as some one mentioned earlier in the thread it burnt the corn so it was removed towards the end of the second week. Initial fermentation kraunsen was great took off in 45 minutes..... I could use some help

Sounds legit buddy. No red flags other than your yeast being mostly dead/rehydrating it but you said there was an obvious high krausen so rule that out.

Mine finishes easily in 3 days at 80F but I do add DAP, Epsom, B vit tabs and Calcium carbonate.

Jamco the grain in UJSM provides enough nutrients for the yeast, Using a bit less backset and keep your wash temp at at least 30c /86f will get it moving along more quickly.

butterpants wrote:Sounds legit buddy. No red flags other than your yeast being mostly dead/rehydrating it but you said there was an obvious high krausen so rule that out.

Mine finishes easily in 3 days at 80F but I do add DAP, Epsom, B vit tabs and Calcium carbonate.

OK well this is what I did, Hasn’t changed much from the first two generations except I added an additional cup of yeast and added yeast nutrients this time. Previously in the thread I had read that nutrients or additional yeast weren’t necessary just follow the recipe, but It’s essentially a sugar wash, so why or how could a straight sugar wash be finished in 4 days……?

So I have approximately 14 gallons of wash with 2.5 gallons of backset and a gallon and a half +- of wash I wasn’t able to remove from the lees the rest is RO water and sugar, Which would give me a specific gravity of about 1.082 my starting pH is approximately 4.7+ or minus and temperature is 82f.

Thanks for the pointers BP I’ll be trying your recipe if this batch doesn’t finish by Friday....

I don't see it as a big deal if it takes 7 days or a more to ferment out, it wont change the end product.
Will you have the time to, or want to run your still every 4 days ?

I have now read all 3,774 posts. There should be a forum badge for this.

Thanks everyone who has posted in this over the years -- every single question I might have has been answered already. Many, many times. It's going to be another month or two before I get started, but this is for sure the recipe I'm starting with.

Saltbush Bill wrote:I don't see it as a big deal if it takes 7 days or a more to ferment out, it wont change the end product.
Will you have the time to, or want to run your still every 4 days ?

This is a salient point and I agree. I actually do and it's why I like it fast. I work 4 on, 3 off. Every weekend I reload up a wash and strip 12ish gallons. Well in the winter I did. Screw distilling in the summer.

Saltbush Bill wrote:I don't see it as a big deal if it takes 7 days or a more to ferment out, it wont change the end product.
Will you have the time to, or want to run your still every 4 days ?

SB Bill it really doesn't matter to me how long it takes, but 21 days
Seems to be way off from what everyone's saying, so I had to ask. I added an additional cup of distillers yeast to this mash so I think that may help.
I need to have something to put on oak and if I only get 3-4 quarts every 3 weeks, well there's nothing left for the barrel......

Saltbush Bill wrote:I don't see it as a big deal if it takes 7 days or a more to ferment out, it wont change the end product.
Will you have the time to, or want to run your still every 4 days ?

No but I would run it every 8-10 I need something to put on oak, so I can really see what I'm working with here.

In a few successful generations you'll have more yeast than you could ever need. If it's still going 21 days it's a pH, temperature or water issue.

butterpants wrote:In a few successful generations you'll have more yeast than you could ever need. If it's still going 21 days it's a pH, temperature or water issue.

thx BP just checked the ph 3.7 so that's got to be it.... Any suggestions....?