uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

[butterpants]

3.7 is getting low but should still ferment further. UJSSM should go to a sub 1.000 final gravity in my experience. Totally dry.

Add some powered chalk (calcium carbonate)... bump it back up to 4 something.

[Jamco]

Just wanted to follow up I raised the ph a little 4.2+- temps 82f and my SG 1.002 in 5 days ,! So I wanted to thank BP & SBB for your advice. This reminds me of my first gen, week to run week to clear.

I know that Jesse's recipe didn't call for any nutrients or adding additional yeast, but I can't help think that adding both to this 3rd Gen helped. I'm guessing I have enough of a yeast bed at this point so I don't think I'll be adding any more for gen 4. I read back through some of your recent post Salt B Bill and you managed to keep yours going for 50 gens, so I'm hoping I'm on the right track.

[butterpants]

Excellent. You're welcome

[Jamco]

Ok I have another question. I have 8 gallons of fients. 3 gallons at 70% 4 gallons at 40%. I'm thinking of combining them for flavor, 50 tails 25% heads. What I'm thinking is using the back set to dilute this, hoping I'd pick up more flavor....

Any thoughts???

[butterpants]

I'd save the feints up untill you've got enough to charge the boiler then run all feints. Should be extra flavorful.

I've added feints back into spirit runs and always been dissapionted. I feel like I just pick up more heads n tails while never improving hearts cut volume. All feints run or toss them out is my advice.

[Distillernz]

Ok so after reading 60 pages of this thread I decided to give Ujssm a go. I am a novice distiller and only recently got my first reflux still, Up until now I have just been adding flavouring to the neutral spirit to try to make a Bourbon tasting drink. I have got a new attachment to turn it from a reflux to a pot still and have just finished my first stripping run of Ujssm.

So I did a 40 Litre wash and added 7kg of cracked corn it is called (kibbled Maize) here in NZ. I added 7.75 kg of dextrose guess you guys call it corn sugar and 40g of Active bakers yeast and 40l water. Fermented at about 24C or 75.2f. Ready in 5 days was a beautiful thing. I gave it a day extra to settle and ran it today. My stripping run took about 3hr 20 total and I got about 9 litres of Low wines starting at around 60% abv and ending at 20%
Now I understand what to do next and the whole generation process and realise the flavour will change getting deeper into the generations but I tasted the middle of the run which should have been the best of the first run and did not like it at all. To me if anything it tasted nothing like bourbon and if anything more like really bad scotch whiskey.

Anyway I will save this and the next few stripping runs up and hope that after my next few batches with the backset added and when I have done my spirit run it will taste better? So I guess my question is does the first batch of ujssm usually taste pretty bad or have I done something wrong?

Here's a picture of my still for reference. It uses 2 x 2.5kw heating elements I only ran one when it got up to temperature.

[NZChris]

Do you have copper in the boiler and riser? If you don't, don't expect great finished product.

Where did you get the maize from? If the maize smells bad, it won't make nice UJSSM.

Never judge a spirit from the stripping run but, if it does smell really bad, see my first question.

Don't expect new make to be comparable to barrel aged liquor.

Don't expect rye flavour if you didn't use any rye.

[Copperhead road]

@distillernz you need some copper in the vapour path to remove the nasty tastes you don’t want in your glass.

Time is your friend with this stuff on Oak.

I find Gen 8 onwards is great for flavour.

[Distillernz]

Yes got some copper in the riser. Got the maize from a local animal feed place seems to smell ok. A bit disheartened after reading the thread and after everyone else's success building my hopes up that it would taste at least ok after the first run, Guess I will have to run the course and see after several generations and some ageing. I have tried to improve the neutral that I have been making with JD chips and Charred oak staves and mixed with the still spirits bourbon but does not taste great, So really hope i can make the Ujssm work for me.
Here is the maize I am using

[NZChris]

There is at least one variety of maize grown in NZ that is a bit stinky. If you have it, the late strip smells like poo. Don't worry too much, you should be able to cut most of it out with the spirit run, but ... If you fall for the misinformation that you don't need copper in the boiler, you might really be in the poo.

The best UJSSMs I have made were from cheap imported crap from my local farm supplies store.

[Distillernz]

@NZChris Sorry just to clarify when you say copper in the boiler you don't mean inside the keg? You mean inside the column

[Yonder]

And the plural of spouse should be spice?

Geoff

No, the plural of spouce would be "trouble"

[Yonder]

Damn! I don't know how I got that last reply so outta place! My computer must be bent or somethin.

[Saltbush Bill]

but I tasted the middle of the run which should have been the best of the first run and did not like it at all. To me if anything it tasted nothing like bourbon and if anything more like really bad scotch whiskey.

Tasting the middle of a strip run really isn't a good indication of what the final product will taste like, nor will it help with telling what the final product of a spirit run will taste like, unless you like drinking white dog that is.
A large chunk of the flavor profile of brown spirits comes from the oak you use. What you end up with will depend on the depth of toast or char you use, and the type of oak, American or French / European / English.
I don't think this recipe was ever meant to replicate Bourbon, its a drink of it own..a corn sugar head.
One day when you are 20 generations or so down the UJ path and have some that has been ages for a year or so you will be in a better position to judge this recipe for what it is.

[NZChris]

@NZChris Sorry just to clarify when you say copper in the boiler you don't mean inside the keg? You mean inside the column

I mean in the boiler. I don't mean the riser, which is often referred to as a 'column' by people who should know better.

The purpose of a riser is to lift the inlet to the condenser to a suitable height for the outlet for the collection jug. No magic improves your likker by how tall your riser is unless you take it to an extreme, when it becomes a column.

[Yonder]

Finally decided to give UJ a try and see what happens. 1st gen went off like a firecracker in the tun SG was 1.09. Made a hell of a racket for about 3 days, what with all the chugging and bubbling over. The run was straight forward and very productive, pulled about a gallon and a quarter from a six gallon wash. Did a backset of 2 gals and it took right off without a hitch. Keepin a bag of shell in the fermenter. For the 2d gen, I tossed in a pound of barley malt extract and about the same of rye flour I had laying around. Should perk it up a bit. After airin' the jars out, decided I just had to keep #6 for a little oakin' and sipping on later. Nice recipe!

[cariboux]

A close variation of UJSSM was my first project after initial novice sugar wash. It went really well and I did 7 generations (10 gal batches in an open-top 20 gal fermenter kept at constant 80F). Aging in 5 gal charred oak barrels now, proofed to 62% ABV (except for regular sipping 86 proof). As you can see from the recycled bottle, the level steadily goes down! I used my alembic pot with 5 gal barrel thumper. After initial distillation, I returned 100% of the cooled wash (with sugar) to the next batch each time. I knew nothing about yeast nutrients or ph. Added fresh yeast each time. My ignorance and 'confidence of youth' (not age, but limited knowledge and experience) probably contributed to success. It it GOOD sipping, attested to by some bourbon loyal friends. Anyway, the more I study and distill, the more I realize how lucky I probably was. I've done one 18 gal AG 100 wheat vodka and have an AG all corn settling out in fermenter carboys waiting for me this week. This is a great hobby, a celebration of true American Liberty, every mash, cook and drop!
I can't express how much I've enjoyed going through this forum and gleaning as much knowledge as possible from you guys that have been practicing for so long. Best wishes from the Last Frontier!

[Distillernz]

Good post cariboux, There sure is a lot of pleasure with this past time even before you get to start sippin. Well, what a difference a few generations can make. I was not happy after generation one UJSSM. But generation three is a whole new ball game. I am still collecting up each batch for my low wines but put a jar aside in the middle of the run today, And as I am not the most patient I used the old nuclear method and after a couple of blasts in the microwave on some JD chips and a couple of Ultrasonic treatments I am amazed at the end result. I can only imagine how good it is going to taste with later generations and proper ageing. But that's a story for another day.

[Yonder]

Sittin' round in the garage, in the darned heat, running my 2d Gen. Takin' it easy with a 1500watt boil and a thumper full of distilled water. Close to my 2d gallon and still at over 60 abv coming from the thumper. What flavor! Sweet corn taste and smell, just fine, just fine. When I backset this time I'm swapping out around a lb of corn for some fresh sweet corn smashed and steeped in the coolin' backset with a cup of rye. Damn, it is good. Three cheers to you Unka.

[Yonder]

The 3d generation took off proper. I use a 10 gal coleman drink cooler as a mash tun and run a good thermometer thru the side wall. An hour or so after addin the backset, i watched that temp slowly rise up to almost 100. Damn yeasties are partyin hardy in there. 1st gen i set aside 1 jar as too good to run again. Lookin like this time it'll be 3 on some oak. Savin the rest up for a long, slow run later.

[Yonder]

Well, damn. The 3d gen is finally near done with only an occasional bubble. Ferment Temps dropped back down again. BUT... Mom fell and broke an important part, been hospitalized a week and won't get sprung from hospital fer a week. Son's off next week and is bringin the grandkids out for a visit, they'll be all over the shed so the copper bits has to be put away. Temps 106 in what little shade there is. I hate waiting but there it is. Gettin mighty thirsty out, too.

[Yonder]

Finallly got to it. Sittin around the shed with the boiler going thru gen 3. Added about a gallon of nasties to the boiler and pure distilled water to the thumper. Run started at an unbelievable 80 ABV corrected to 76 for temp. Going strong!
Had some if my sweet mash from gen 1 last nite, to get ready for today ya know. Damn that was too good.

[cariboux]

This last month I started my second run at Sour Corn Mash. This time I started with a 'double' fermentation process letting the corn sour for about a week before adding a sugar wash to it. I've heard about the mash starting to stink on 2nd day, but mine did not. After mashing more corn with enzymes and adding sugar wash, I tossed the yeast and it went wild! Didn't foam over, but bubbled and rocked violently. Smelled wonderful like bread rising and old sour dough starter. THEN, on 15th day, after the C02 bubbles has ceased and settling started, the huge white bubbles rose to the top of fermenter and a sort of thin white layer covered the whole surface. I stirred it with my BOS and it was the same the next morning. I then siphoned wash to glass carboys and moved to a cool place to settle. The distillate was amazing taste and smell. I put it aside and just finished second distill of it added back to Generation 2. Gen 3 is fermenting as I write this.
For second and 3rd generation, the sugar wash I added back was 100% back set.
If anyone has experienced the 'huge white bubbles' phenomenon as pictured, let me know. Thanks!
For anyone interested, I'll let you know how next generations turn out using 100% back set.

ps My fermenting room stays a constant 85 degrees and the sour mash registered 95 degrees during the peak of fermentation.

A little more info on my mash, I'm doing approx. 15 gallons. I run two 6-gal batches in my 10 gal pot with the prior Generation's distillate in my thumper and then a final 3 gallon run with all the distillate.
For the next generation, I add 5# fresh cracked corn and 1# Malted Rye to the fermenter, then 10# of sugar dissolved in each of the '6-gallon' hot backsets. Cooled and added to fermenter. So far, the yeast has loved it. For good measure, I did add a handful of oyster shell.

[Yonder]

Well, i just did a few fingers o' the sweet mash from back when. Only saved the best an it's been on oak since then. Holy Jesus i have never had such a treat in my life. Been around the world twice an watched two monkey f@ck and I ain't never seen nothing that good. Handed the glass to SheWMBO and she smelt it an said "that doesn't smell like alcohol. How'd you do that?" And She doesn't drink whisky. Daaaaamn that's good. This is never gonna get properly aged!

[Copperhead road]

I find a good lacto infection can be a welcomed addition to flavour, some love em and some hate em.

I love the cobwebs over the surface of a 200L ferment.

[Copperhead road]

but I tasted the middle of the run which should have been the best of the first run and did not like it at all. To me if anything it tasted nothing like bourbon and if anything more like really bad scotch whiskey.

Tasting the middle of a strip run really isn't a good indication of what the final product will taste like, nor will it help with telling what the final product of a spirit run will taste like, unless you like drinking white dog that is.
A large chunk of the flavor profile of brown spirits comes from the oak you use. What you end up with will depend on the depth of toast or char you use, and the type of oak, American or French / European / English.
I don't think this recipe was ever meant to replicate Bourbon, its a drink of it own..a corn sugar head.
One day when you are 20 generations or so down the UJ path and have some that has been ages for a year or so you will be in a better position to judge this recipe for what it is.

Yer that.....spot on salty

[FizzRolyat]

Am planning my next mash and want to give the UJSSM a go. Have 3 fermenters so no problem running the Gen 1 and no output.

My only problem is I only have a T500 column for the still. I've made some great gin with carry over of flavour from the wash, so I am curious on anyone's experience with putting a UJSSM through the T500. How much flavour do you actually lose ?

Thanks.
Fizz

[Saltbush Bill]

I would think that you will loose most of it. You will need to make a pot still head for the t500 boiler, you will also need to make a power controller.
Something like this

[FizzRolyat]

thanks saltbush, but I am after comments please from someone who has actually run it. My limited experience with the two gin runs I've done did not lose much flavour at all in the reflux column. All else fails, I'll run it myself through the T500 column then report back !

[Saltbush Bill]

My limited experience with the two gin runs I've done did not lose much flavour at all in the reflux column.

How do you know you didn't loose much flavor if you have never run it through a pot still to compere?
Ive run UJ though a reflux still, so I have a pretty good idea what will happen.