uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by jog666 »

vex wrote:So I'm doing 12 gal of wash. Did gen 1 and collected about 1.5 gal of 110proof without cuts (minus fores). This was 2 charges in my 8gal boiler.

I have gen 2 ready to run.

Do I run both charges of gen 2 in pot mode and collect everything for a spirit run?

When do I add the low wines from gen 1? In the strip run or the spirit run?

Strip gen2 like you did gen1. Keep doing this until you have enough low wines to fill the pot. If you collected 1.5g sweet, you will use that plus 3 gens of strips to get enough for a spirit, ~6g. Or strip gen2, mix with low wines from gen1 & spirit run that to get you something to drink. Then just keep going.

Ive found the bigger the spirit run is, the easier it is to make cuts.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by The Dark Alchemist »

So just finished off my spirit run on gens 1-4.

Ended up with about ~3L at 70%, so threw some oak in and let's wait and see what happens.

Now to strip G5 and continue the journey........
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Hillbilly-in-Oz »

Good morning Gents,
I've been reading everything I can about UJSSM(including this whole thread) and I am on Gen2 after stripping Gen1 (40L racked off). I'm not one to try and alter a tried and true recipe, but I have a question. My issue is I work away from home (only home 6 days every 2weeks) and have limited time on the still; the UJSSM outruns my capacity to run it off to generate backset before starting the next Generation. I can rack my mash off and start next gen. Also, at 40L charge, I end up with about 10L ran off. I'd like to reduce my ferment size from my 60L to 30L fermenter so that I can get enough late generations stripped to do my spirit run (50L boiler). My boiler requires at least 12L to cover the element.

What is the opinion on doing multiple, lower volume generations and racking off to run the multiple generations' mashes together to strip to avoid so many small runs? This would mean no backset, but could you just use raw mash as the backset for the next generation? It might seem odd, but I'm a bit concerned that I'll end up with way too much spirit from early generations and my spirit run will be of lower quality... or I'll just end up with too much finished product to manage after multiple spirit runs.

Is there any reason that the backset needs to be out of the boiler instead of left in the fermenter due to delays to distilling?

Additionally, can anybody offer an opinion on the difference in flavour between white sugar and raw sugar for UJSSM? Raw sugar is only $0.10 more per kg

Cheers all.
Last edited by Hillbilly-in-Oz on Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by jog666 »

Hillbilly-in-Oz wrote:Good morning Gents,
I've been reading everything I can about UJSSM(including this whole thread) and I am on Gen2 after stripping Gen1 (40L racked off). I'm not one to try and alter a tried and true recipe, but I have a question. My issue is I work away from home (only home 6 days every 2weeks) and have limited time on the still; the UJSSM outruns my capacity to run it off to generate backset before starting the next Generation. I can rack my mash off and start next gen. Also, at 40L charge, I end up with about 10L ran off. I'd like to reduce my ferment size from my 60L to 30L fermenter so that I can get enough late generations stripped to do my spirit run (50L boiler). My boiler requires at least 12L to cover the element.

What is the opinion on doing multiple, lower volume generations and racking off to run the multiple generations' mashes together to strip to avoid so many small runs? This would mean no backset, but could you just use raw mash as the backset for the next generation? It might seem odd, but I'm a bit concerned that I'll end up with way too much spirit from early generations and my spirit run will be of lower quality... or I'll just end up with too much finished product to manage after multiple spirit runs.

Is there any reason that the backset needs to be out of the boiler instead of left in the fermenter due to delays to distilling?

Additionally, can anybody offer an opinion on the difference in flavour between white sugar and raw sugar for UJSSM? Raw sugar is only $0.10 more per kg

Cheers all.
I switched to smaller stripping runs not long ago. Able to fit them in better on my off days along with scaling the mashing back. I also ran UJSSM "sweet" for a while (no backset) with no problems but since I started to use it, the work got easier & product a whole lot better. You could also freeze the backset.

Why dont you scale back to ~30l like you want to (or smaller if needed to get your time right), strip that, use the backset to get the next one started & repeat in two weeks. Do that until you have enough stripped to make a spirit run.

White vs raw.... not a clue.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Raw sugar works fine....ive used it in UJ for years.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by kiwi Bruce »

Hillbilly-in-Oz wrote:Additionally, can anybody offer an opinion on the difference in flavour between white sugar and raw sugar for UJSSM? Raw sugar is only $0.10 more per kg, Cheers all.
Make small batch and try it...I imagine it would add a "rum like" flavor that would meld well with the flavor of the corn.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Raw sugar does not add a rum flavour.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

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Saltbush Bill wrote:Raw sugar does not add a rum flavour.
Then would there be any point in using it at all?
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Saltbush Bill »

kiwi Bruce wrote:Then would there be any point in using it at all?
I guess the easiest way is to try it for your self and see what you think.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by jedneck »

Fwiw i always felt raw sugar fermented better leaving a cleaner end product. Is a lil bit more costly though if your a cheap ass
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by 6 Row Joe »

Uncle Jessie's. Nice stuff. Even better when a little rye is involved.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by 6 Row Joe »

I have been adding a half a cup of flake rye to my Uncle Jesse's Mash. I just got done tasting and blending a couple of runs and it is so smooth even that 120 proof. Something you might want to try.
Last edited by 6 Row Joe on Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by kiwi Bruce »

Taking about smooth, CK this out...goose eye's "Seen on tv" viewtopic.php?f=7&t=71406&p=7561286#p7561286

All about " Mezcal de Pechuga" raw chicken breast or rabbit or venison, but raw meat hung in the vapors to "smooth" the spirits taste.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

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kiwi Bruce wrote:Taking about smooth, CK this out...goose eye's "Seen on tv" viewtopic.php?f=7&t=71406&p=7561286#p7561286

All about " Mezcal de Pechuga" raw chicken breast or rabbit or venison, but raw meat hung in the vapors to "smooth" the spirits taste.
Wow. I don't think I'm brave enough to try that.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Hillbilly-in-Oz »

Gents,
I have just finished my first spirit run of UJSSM Gen2-5 and I proofed down a jar from the 160proof mid hearts to 100proof for a taste. I noticed an odd "mouth feel" occurring late that I didn't notice when tasting the different generation of stripped spirits. Has anybody else noticed this or have any reason why this would be present in the 2nd distillation? Should this go away with age or should I look at some sort of carbon filtering? I want to leave some white, and I would expect this might go away if oaked, so any suggestion would be appreciated.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by jog666 »

Hillbilly-in-Oz wrote:Gents,
I have just finished my first spirit run of UJSSM Gen2-5 and I proofed down a jar from the 160proof mid hearts to 100proof for a taste. I noticed an odd "mouth feel" occurring late that I didn't notice when tasting the different generation of stripped spirits. Has anybody else noticed this or have any reason why this would be present in the 2nd distillation? Should this go away with age or should I look at some sort of carbon filtering? I want to leave some white, and I would expect this might go away if oaked, so any suggestion would be appreciated.

I havent noticed anything 'odd' between strips & spirits. Just the normal (to me atleast) round off the rough edges then smoothing out as it gets older. What is the "mouth feel" like?
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by kiwi Bruce »

Hillbilly-in-Oz wrote:Gents, I noticed an odd "mouth feel" occurring late that I didn't notice when tasting the different generation of stripped spirits. Has anybody else noticed this
Yes and it's from the heads cut...you may have taken the hearts a little early...put the whole batch out in 3 or 4 open containers and leave it out to breath over night, you'll taste the "edge" starting to go...keep letting to breath until it's where you like it...it's one of the aldehydes I thinks it's ethyl, but it will leave before you lose any ethanol.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Hillbilly-in-Oz »

Thank guys. I would describe it more as the "finish" like sort of synthetic feeling left on the tongue. This was jar 12 of about 23 collected at 78-82%. I would have suspected this jar was right in the mid hearts. 30L boiler charge @40% and first 250mL thrown out as fores, then 1x 1L + 10x 300mL jars collected before this one. I didn't get to air the whole lot as much as I would have liked and didn't get a chance to do my cuts as I had to go back to work (away) and didn't want to leave this high proof gear stored open.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by still_stirrin »

Hillbilly-in-Oz wrote:...I would describe it more as the "finish" like sort of synthetic feeling left on the tongue. This was...collected at 78-82%....I didn't get to air the whole lot as much as I would have liked...and didn't want to leave this high proof gear stored open.
Therein lies some indication of your perceptions....too high proof (to be sampling) + not adequate aeration of the volatiles.

Typically, I would describe this character as “solventy” with a definite warming sensation. It is because of the keytones and higher alcohol products (with higher volatility) still in your jars. You can also sense the volatiles of a high proof sample by the “tingle” on the tongue. These would naturally reduce with proper airing, especially before attempting to make cuts, and would similarly diminish when aged in a cask.

As you know, the ethanol will have a slightly sweet taste and often does not leave the same “burn in your mouth” that the volatile constituents will. Clean ethanol will warm your chest, however, when swallowed.

Because of process variances batch to batch as well as varying viability and health of the active yeast, the amounts of the constituents will vary as well. And subtle differences in how you run the still, including water temperature variances and flow rates, will affect how and when these constituents come over to your collection jars. This can certainly have an effect on which jars you notice the “synthetic” taste in.

But you’re not lost because you can open the jars and let them properly air out (24 to 36 hours at room temperature) when you get back home. And then, go through and make proper cuts and blend. It is sometimes tough to simply “grab the middle jar” and assume it’s the center hearts. It may work...or maybe not. So, you’ll have to do a little more “homework” when you get back to it.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Hillbilly-in-Oz »

Thanks still_stirrin. I did air everything out for 2 more days and did my cuts. As I have never done a big spirit run, I wasn't entirely sure of my hearts range until I sat down and started tasting (been doing many stripping runs). That jar ended up being on the front end of the hearts, so a bit of heads. The true hearts actually ran from about jar 14 through to about 26, with the hearts going from about 80% down to about 68%. I thought the tails would have been kicking in at 75%, so I figured I was in the hearts.... live any learn and now I know. I was tasting it all half-half mixed with water, so wouldn't have been too high a proof. I did have to go away and come back to tasting for cuts as I fried my taste buds after about 6 or 7 tastes. Always a learning experience.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Hillbilly-in-Oz »

Hey guys. I have noticed something interesting with my UJSSM which I'm curious if anybody has also seen. I ran 6 gens of straight corn and then decided to integrate some rye for something different. I pulled out 1kg of spent corn. I added 1kg of ground malted rye to my hot backseat from Gen 6 corn only and let it steep for an hour or so until cool enough to add back to the new gen (steeping to hopefully get some extraction/conversion taking place). Over 2 generations of the same, the addition of rye appears to make the fermentation finish faster than the corn by itself (e.g 3 1/2 days vs 4-4 1/2 days). Starting and finishing SGs are pretty much always the same 1070 start and 995 finish over 8 gens now. I was just curious if anybody else has noticed grain additions changing the ferment time of UJSSM.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by thecroweater »

The temp of the backset will determine if you actually got any conversion but the faster ferment is likely due to more nutrients
Be keen to know where you source rye malt and at what price.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by Hillbilly-in-Oz »

Hi Crow, the malted rye is just from the local brewshop. About $7/kilo grain and I have a mill to I grind it. The backset temp was about 65-70°C, which is in the range for the enzymes to work. My backseat is going medium brown, which means I'm getting something out of the rye. I have enough sugar head, and I'm getting the rye flavour through, so any add'l conversion is a bonus.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by SwollenGoat23 »

Now fermenting gen 5 and its taking about 10 or 14 days to finish. I maintain PH and fermenting temp but I'm wondering if I oxygenate too much at the beginning? Does the yeast in a UJSSM type wash need the oxygen or is it slowing things down?
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by DetroitDIY »

For those that barrel age UJSM, how long are you leaving it in? In what volume barrel? New... old?

I had a first run UJSM where I kept the hearts rather than turn them over. filled a 1 gallon, pretty young, oak barrel with them. Liked them after 1 month... taste over oaked now after 7 months.

I have a bunch more in a new, 5 gallon oak barrel. 6 months in so far. Thinking to pull them out and fill that barrel with a different distillate in 1 month or so more. Does UJSM tend to do better with longer aging as a whiskey might, or is it generally un-aged / lightly aged?

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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by 6 Row Joe »

DetroitDIY wrote:For those that barrel age UJSM, how long are you leaving it in? In what volume barrel? New... old?

I had a first run UJSM where I kept the hearts rather than turn them over. filled a 1 gallon, pretty young, oak barrel with them. Liked them after 1 month... taste over oaked now after 7 months.

I have a bunch more in a new, 5 gallon oak barrel. 6 months in so far. Thinking to pull them out and fill that barrel with a different distillate in 1 month or so more. Does UJSM tend to do better with longer aging as a whiskey might, or is it generally un-aged / lightly aged?

Thanks,
DetroitDIY
You have to keep tasting and pull it out when it gets happy. I don't know how the commercial distillers do it. Spirits that spend a decade on oak are over the top smooth and complex. You need to keep a gallon on oak past the "overoaked" level to see where it goes. Remember, the smaller the barrel, the shorter the time it takes to get good.
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by islander20 »

Sorry if this has been asked before, I have waded through quite a few of the pages but not all 133! I want to get started doing UJSSM runs with my 15 gallon keg boiler. I am assuming if I make 12 gallons of mash I wont end up with anywhere near 12 gallons of wash.

I assume I wont be straining the corn. If I do a 15 gallon mash will I be able siphon off 12 gallons of wash?
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by JSparrow »

I’m pulling about 10 gallons out of a 17 gallon fermenter filled up to about the 15 gal mark.

That leaves about an inch of fluid over the grain bed
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

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islander20 wrote:Sorry if this has been asked before, I have waded through quite a few of the pages but not all 133! I want to get started doing UJSSM runs with my 15 gallon keg boiler. I am assuming if I make 12 gallons of mash I wont end up with anywhere near 12 gallons of wash.

I assume I wont be straining the corn. If I do a 15 gallon mash will I be able siphon off 12 gallons of wash?
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Re: uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

Post by islander20 »

I read about 20 pages then stopped. Of course I read the recipe. I cant believe that if I add 5 gallons of water to start the mash I will get 5 gallons of wash to run. Between the corn and yeast cake there must be bit of wash left behind? Or is it so minor its not worth compensating for?
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