uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

[Cabron99]

Made my first UJSSM yesterday. I bought whole corn as I thought I might get higher quality grains. To my consternation, my Monster Mill wouldn't grind it. Wouldn't grab the kernels, even at the widest setting. I've brewed so much beer, the rollers must have lost their sharp edge. Just dumped the whole corn in. I'm keeping my fingers crossed! Wish me luck.

[Kindafrench]

Had my 6th generation UJSM in the still and got ~5 liters of 55% out of ~40 liters UJSM. Could again use almost all of the 5 liters. Found most of the good taste in the later heads section. I‘m still very happy with the Whiskey in my barrel.
What I‘m not getting is, when people tell about their worries about energy cost. Maybe I get it wrong, but it costs me 2 € a run, to power the heating element. Adding cost for sugar, it‘s 5.50 € for 5 liters.
That’s 1.10 € / liter.
1 € = 1,09 USD
5 liters = ~1,32 US gallons
That‘s 1.65 $ / gallon
Based on 0.18 € (0.20 $) / kWh
I don‘t count the cost for corn, because it‘s not worth in my case)
What are your costs (energy and sugar separated), only UJSM related of course?

[NZChris]

What type of still are you running, Kindafrench?

Because it's only my hobby I've never gone to the trouble of working out costs, but I do run a Charentaise style preheater that cuts out almost all of the heatup expense and time for every strip except the first one. The time and expense saved are the main reasons why I have never gotten excited about the idea of building some type of plater for doing singles.

I've also kicked off spirit runs in the preheater using the heat from the last stripping run.

[Kindafrench]

It‘s a LM offsethead reflux still, but I‘m running it without any reflux for this.

[6 Row Joe]

Made my first UJSSM yesterday. I bought whole corn as I thought I might get higher quality grains. To my consternation, my Monster Mill wouldn't grind it. Wouldn't grab the kernels, even at the widest setting. I've brewed so much beer, the rollers must have lost their sharp edge. Just dumped the whole corn in. I'm keeping my fingers crossed! Wish me luck.

My mill wouldn't grind corn either. I buy cracked corn from the farm store and it still wouldn't grind it. I found one of these and it works great. You can set it to grind meal or flower if you wish. The finer the corn the better the mash. It is a CS Bell #2

[6 Row Joe]

I ran a couple strip runs and my spirit run is great. I combined it wit a striipng run of Booners all corn. I think I might just keep it white. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. LOL

[Cabron99]

Made my first UJSSM yesterday. I bought whole corn as I thought I might get higher quality grains. To my consternation, my Monster Mill wouldn't grind it. Wouldn't grab the kernels, even at the widest setting. I've brewed so much beer, the rollers must have lost their sharp edge. Just dumped the whole corn in. I'm keeping my fingers crossed! Wish me luck.

My mill wouldn't grind corn either. I buy cracked corn from the farm store and it still wouldn't grind it. I found one of these and it works great. You can set it to grind meal or flower if you wish. The finer the corn the better the mash. It is a CS Bell #2 CS Bell #2.jpg

Thanks for the inspiration!! I have an old coffee grinder that looks just like that! Problem solved. My UJSSM is still bubbling away contentedly, but I'll start it over next time.

[bigtex52]

It's been a while since doing my last series of UJSSM, so I have no backset to use for my current first generation. Has anyone ever used Lactic Acid to drop the pH of their first generation? If so, what pH did you adjust it to?

[captndiet]

NZChris

Can you describe the pre-heater you are using?

Jeff

[NZChris]

NZChris

Can you describe the pre-heater you are using?

Jeff

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=66230

[captndiet]

Chris

Thank You Sir !!

Jeff

[Stob]

I ran the UJSSM most all season. I adjusted the volume to fit in 5 gallon buckets. You can only get about 4 gallons of water in the bucket once the corn and sugar goes in, so I'm using 6 pounds of cracked corn and 6 pounds of sugar and I use two 5 gallon buckets per batch, 1 tablespoon of DADA. My pot is a 15.5 gallon keg, 2" copper column and a leibeg condenser 24" long, 1/2" through pipe with a 1" jacket.

I mix all this and when the temps were hotter, 6 or 7 days and all the bubbling stopped and the corn settled down and the mash turned clear, meaning the cloudiness settled too. This was my cue to run it. I siphoned off the mash down to the corn level, I usually get about 3-1/4 gallons down to the corn, from each bucket. This is what I run each time. I heat it slow, I have a temp probe on the column right above the tri-clamp. During the run I keep this temp between 170 and 180, which gives me an output from many drips to a steady small stream, about toothpick size.

When I run again, I use 1-1/4 gallon of backset, with 12 pounds of sugar makes a tad over 2 gallons, and that is split between the two buckets, then topped off with water. Stir and agitate the corn, and let it go again. I ran this up to 8 generations, and started new.

So with this 6-1/2 gallons of wash, I'm getting a little over two quarts after tossing 6-7 ounces. This comes out at first around 135 proof. The hooch is nice and clear, and has a rather neutral smell. After the second quart though, I keep smelling it and soon it will turn to a strong bitter smell and taste, similar to a wet dog (no I haven't tasted a wet dog). I stop the run then. Is this a normal yield for the amount of wash? And I have to say, while this isn't unpleasant to drink, I don't get much of a corn taste.

Please comment on any aspect to this. I've pretty much stopped for the year, although I do have one more run to make, taking a long time now to ferment to run.

[jog666]

First thing, buy at least two more buckets. I have run 4 buckets for nearly this whole year. It works out with my schedule great.

Its TOO early to break out the big math but something does sound off on yours. Maybe mine is off in the other direction. 6.5# corn & sugar (each) with 3 gallons of water (or .75g backset & 2.25g water) will be about 4.25g ttl volume. Pulling all of the clear off & just starting to get murcky beer, there will be less than a gallon between all the buckets of dirty beer. Stripping it will start in the 140p-150p area & slowly go down. I average a gallon of low wines per bucket. It does vary some but not alot. I try to strip down to 15p-20p but dont always due to time or how the big jars fall.

I average up all of my strips to hit 35-40% (with water if needed). When I hit 12-13g I do a slow spirit run. That will put a solid 3 gallons of hearts on the table for me. Cutting it down to 100p will total over 5 gallons.

Foreshots during the strip runs, from the early drips to shortly after it gets to a solid stream. Then during a spirit, the first several jars wont ever be used.

Taste, the stripping run has a very sweet corny taste. Spirits are a mellowed version.


I think I kinda spaced out & started to ramble a bit. Rereading your post, sounds like you are only stripping & trying to make cuts there. If so, STOP that! Strip the beer until you have enough low wines for a good spirit run.

[NZChris]

During the run I keep this temp between 170 and 180, which gives me an output from many drips to a steady small stream, about toothpick size.

That isn't a great way to run a pot still, Stob.

[Saltbush Bill]

Why did you stop after 8 generations and start again? , there is no reason to do that.

[Stob]

(1) First thing, buy at least two more buckets. I have run 4 buckets for nearly this whole year. It works out with my schedule great.

(2) Its TOO early to break out the big math but something does sound off on yours. Maybe mine is off in the other direction. 6.5# corn & sugar (each) with 3 gallons of water (or .75g backset & 2.25g water) will be about 4.25g ttl volume. Pulling all of the clear off & just starting to get murcky beer, there will be less than a gallon between all the buckets of dirty beer. Stripping it will start in the 140p-150p area & slowly go down. I average a gallon of low wines per bucket. It does vary some but not alot. I try to strip down to 15p-20p but dont always due to time or how the big jars fall.

(3) I average up all of my strips to hit 35-40% (with water if needed). When I hit 12-13g I do a slow spirit run. That will put a solid 3 gallons of hearts on the table for me. Cutting it down to 100p will total over 5 gallons.

Foreshots during the strip runs, from the early drips to shortly after it gets to a solid stream. Then during a spirit, the first several jars wont ever be used.

Taste, the stripping run has a very sweet corny taste. Spirits are a mellowed version.


I think I kinda spaced out & started to ramble a bit. Rereading your post, sounds like you are only stripping & trying to make cuts there. If so, STOP that! Strip the beer until you have enough low wines for a good spirit run.

(1) I actually do use two sets of buckets and have them so there is 3 to 4 days between the runs.

(2) The 6# of corn and sugar are close to actual. I use a 4 gallon total liquid number as apposed to the 5 gallons on the recipe, and works out fairly close. I put the corn in the bucket, take a couple gallons of water and heat it (or hot backset) and dissolve the sugar and dump it in when cooled down, then fill the bucket to within an inch or so of the top. It comes out to around 4 gallons. The ratio of ingredients between the "5" gallon recipe to "4" gallon is close. With that full bucket, I siphon off down to the corn, and I get 3-1/4 gallons of wash. I use one of those stainless drain screens when I get close to the corn, push it in the corn just a bit and siphon out of that, keeps a lot of corn from sucking through. Don't get me wrong, I could let the pot run for a lot longer and get more, but the smell and taste gets pretty rough.

(3) So what you are saying, is you just run the pot as many times as needed to get 12-13 gallons collected, then use that to run a spirit run? If I recall properly, at the beginning of this thread, the concept was to perhaps collect a little of the first run from the middle, but then start in the soar mash mode by using backsets and collect from those. Did I not get that right?

[Stob]

During the run I keep this temp between 170 and 180, which gives me an output from many drips to a steady small stream, about toothpick size.

That isn't a great way to run a pot still, Stob.

Can you tell me where this is wrong please? This seems to be the concept from the original posts from UJ. He says run where there is 4-5 drops per second or so, and I'm real close to that.

[Stob]

Why did you stop after 8 generations and start again? , there is no reason to do that.

I understand it can be used a lot longer. Mine seemed to start slowing down to where I could run it, so I tossed it and started a new batch. I had the cracked corn to use.

[Saltbush Bill]

Use less backset if its slowing down.

[6 Row Joe]

Cheers. A little UJ and Rye. It has been in a barrel for 8 months. Very nice. I don't know if I can keep my hands off it for much longer.

[whistlewetter]

So I wanted to do this, the first ferment has been finished for about 2 weeks, I just read in this post that you need to run it within a few days of it finishing...should I scrap it and start a new ferment?

[6 Row Joe]

Oh no don't scrap it. Run it. It should be fine.

[Saltbush Bill]

Are you sure you read it here?
You can store UJ for months before running it as long as its in an air tight container or is airlocked.

[whistlewetter]

Thanks guys. Yeah I read it here somewhere. Something about starting a secondary fermentation that was bad. I may have read it wrong. I will go back and look for it. Thanks again!

[jog666]

(1) First thing, buy at least two more buckets. I have run 4 buckets for nearly this whole year. It works out with my schedule great.

(2) Its TOO early to break out the big math but something does sound off on yours. Maybe mine is off in the other direction. 6.5# corn & sugar (each) with 3 gallons of water (or .75g backset & 2.25g water) will be about 4.25g ttl volume. Pulling all of the clear off & just starting to get murcky beer, there will be less than a gallon between all the buckets of dirty beer. Stripping it will start in the 140p-150p area & slowly go down. I average a gallon of low wines per bucket. It does vary some but not alot. I try to strip down to 15p-20p but dont always due to time or how the big jars fall.

(3) I average up all of my strips to hit 35-40% (with water if needed). When I hit 12-13g I do a slow spirit run. That will put a solid 3 gallons of hearts on the table for me. Cutting it down to 100p will total over 5 gallons.

Foreshots during the strip runs, from the early drips to shortly after it gets to a solid stream. Then during a spirit, the first several jars wont ever be used.

Taste, the stripping run has a very sweet corny taste. Spirits are a mellowed version.


I think I kinda spaced out & started to ramble a bit. Rereading your post, sounds like you are only stripping & trying to make cuts there. If so, STOP that! Strip the beer until you have enough low wines for a good spirit run.

(1) I actually do use two sets of buckets and have them so there is 3 to 4 days between the runs.

(2) The 6# of corn and sugar are close to actual. I use a 4 gallon total liquid number as apposed to the 5 gallons on the recipe, and works out fairly close. I put the corn in the bucket, take a couple gallons of water and heat it (or hot backset) and dissolve the sugar and dump it in when cooled down, then fill the bucket to within an inch or so of the top. It comes out to around 4 gallons. The ratio of ingredients between the "5" gallon recipe to "4" gallon is close. With that full bucket, I siphon off down to the corn, and I get 3-1/4 gallons of wash. I use one of those stainless drain screens when I get close to the corn, push it in the corn just a bit and siphon out of that, keeps a lot of corn from sucking through. Don't get me wrong, I could let the pot run for a lot longer and get more, but the smell and taste gets pretty rough.

I noticed a solid difference in one run where I cut the tails short. I cant place exactly what it was lacking but it was missing something. On top of that, I had to do one more round of stripping to get a full charge.

(3) So what you are saying, is you just run the pot as many times as needed to get 12-13 gallons collected, then use that to run a spirit run? If I recall properly, at the beginning of this thread, the concept was to perhaps collect a little of the first run from the middle, but then start in the soar mash mode by using backsets and collect from those. Did I not get that right?

Yes. Its been a while since I read the thread but if youre running it at a slower collection pace, I dont see why you cant pull some hearts out to keep. Hell, I enjoy the taste of the late heads & hearts during a stripping run, I just dont keep any. Ferment, strip, repeat until you have a full charge of low wines, then spirit run. You dont have to get 12 gallons, you can do a smaller spirit run & be fine. From what I have seen, That bigger charge is worth it. Yes it takes longer to get there & longer to run it but the end product is worth it, plus you have more of it.

Lets say you are starting from raw ingredients. Make your mash/wash & let ferment. Strip this beer hard & fast. Collect everything but the early stuff, all the way down to where it reads 10-20%. Take some of the hot backset from that run & restart your mash/wash. Repeat above. When you have done this enough to make up a full charge, dump into boiler & run it slower. Collect in smaller amounts to make the cuts. Cover jars with coffee filters for at least 24 hours. The backset currently in the boiler, dont keep it.

During the run I keep this temp between 170 and 180, which gives me an output from many drips to a steady small stream, about toothpick size.

That isn't a great way to run a pot still, Stob.

Can you tell me where this is wrong please? This seems to be the concept from the original posts from UJ. He says run where there is 4-5 drops per second or so, and I'm real close to that.

Running by temperature is whats wrong with a pot still. I dont run by temp but have talked to a fella that ran off of temp. I thought I was slow to fill a jar, he was able to take naps between jars.

So I wanted to do this, the first ferment has been finished for about 2 weeks, I just read in this post that you need to run it within a few days of it finishing...should I scrap it and start a new ferment?

HELL NO!! Ive had some sit for months without problems. I also stayed out of it, as in making sure it stayed sealed.

[6 Row Joe]

Happy Halloween! A little Uncle Jessie's and rye.

[NZChris]

During the run I keep this temp between 170 and 180, which gives me an output from many drips to a steady small stream, about toothpick size.

That isn't a great way to run a pot still, Stob.

Can you tell me where this is wrong please? This seems to be the concept from the original posts from UJ. He says run where there is 4-5 drops per second or so, and I'm real close to that.

it doesn't say to keep the temperature between 170 and 180, or any other temperature for that matter. Running a pot still by temperature is a newbie mistake, compounded by builders and sellers placing thermometers in inappropriate places in the still because uninformed potential customers have come to expect to see them there. When you first start out, you are better off putting tape over the thermometers so that you can't make the mistake of trying to control the temperature when you should be controlling the output stream.

For getting the cuts right, look up Kiwistiller's novice guide to cuts.

[6 Row Joe]

I use a thermometer in the column as a guide but I don't run it by temp.

[DetroitDIY]

Happy Halloween! A little Uncle Jessie's and rye.

That's a nice little glass 6 Row. Are they easy enough to find?

[Saltbush Bill]

Detroit it looks like a Glen Cairn to me ..easy enough to find ..I have 4 of them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glencairn_whisky_glass