What still to built or buy?

[PoolGuy]

Shame on me. Shame. I bought this still a couple months ago before discovering HD.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/32568012 ... pt=glo2usa

Go ahead. Throw stones. I deserve it.

My goal is to make clean neutrals/vodka. So why is a plate still not such a good option for this?

I ran about 35gal of TPW a few weeks ago, and I will be ready to run about 30gal of Shady's Sugar Shine next week. For what it is worth (off topic), the SSS seems SO much cleaner and faster that TPW. I'm a learnin'.

OBSERVATIONS:

1. Overall, the build quality is very good. Well packed.

2. Yes, the bang-bang thermostat is totally inappropriate for distilling. I fabricated a SCR controller for the next run.

3. Heat up time is about an hour. I added a 2000 watt water heater style element (will use two separate 110v/20a circuits) to speed heat-up time. We will see how well this works.

4. The still was missing the "drain valve". They are supposedly sending me one. I used a wine cork on the first run. I made the hole larger and added a flange to accept the water heater element discussed above. Don't really need a drain valve on this little guy.

5. It is advertised as 30 liter, but only holds about 25 liters. There explanation was a knee-slapper. You pretty much have to fill the still up to the head to get to 30 liters. Que Sera.

6. The descriptions and literature are the usual hilarious Chinese translations, but I can't hold that against them. And just because they don't know the terminology in English does not mean they can't make quality copies of domestic stills. Again, shame on me.

7. The water piping is 12mm pneumatic tubing. I ordered some elbows and a needle valve to better control cooling water to the dephlegmator and condenser. I don't like it, but it works.

8. The still worked quite well for the stripping runs. Just turn off dephlegmator water and crank temperature. My spirit runs were a challenge to control with just crude dephlegmator cooling water control. It ran too fast and I think that cuts were more shmeared than desired. This was my first spirit run on this still, and only the third one in my 63 year career. So like I said... learnin'.

9. The four bubbler plates seem to be doing what I think they are suppose to be doing. I could load them up and see plenty of boiling and reflux. The column is 1.75". The sight glasses are nice to observe what is going on, and of very good quality.

10. I suspect the dephlegmator is on the small side. Not sure if it will knock back as much as I want.

11. I love the parrot setup. Tralle Hydrometer sold separately

12. Top comes off easily. Very easy to dump out and clean.

So there you have it. A Chinese "HooLoo" brand still. If you are not up to building a still, you get a lot for the money compared to domestic made stills. I feel the I got good value, but as expected, it is just a starting point.

Despite all appearances, I am a patriot.

[Saltbush Bill]

My goal is to make clean neutrals/vodka. So why is a plate still not such a good option for this?

The simple fact is that a plated column with only 4 plates is designed to carry flavour, not for removing flavour.
At the very least you would need to add a packed section to the top of the plates to achieve anything like neutral.
You are right SSS is a cleaner wash than TPW.

[MooseMan]

Looks like there are a good few seals in that setup you've bought. Are they all PTFE?

I bet the lid seal is not for starters!


Edit: not finished typing.

[PoolGuy]

My goal is to make clean neutrals/vodka. So why is a plate still not such a good option for this?

At the very least you would need to add a packed section to the top of the plates to achieve anything like neutral.

If you were sitting with this still and wanted to make neutrals, would you replace the plate column completely? With what? Or as you say, at a minimum, add a packed section? What is my BEST option?

[PoolGuy]

Looks like there are a good few seals in that setup you've bought. Are they all PTFE?

Really good question. How do I tell? What are the consequences of non-PTFE seals?

[MooseMan]

Looks like there are a good few seals in that setup you've bought. Are they all PTFE?

Really good question. How do I tell? What are the consequences of non-PTFE seals?

PTFE seals are a pure white, hard rigid plastic. It is considered to be the only one that is impervious to ethanol and the many other solvents that are produced when distilling ethanol.
Silicone (Which is commonly used by Chinese still producers) is soft, pliable and often semi transparent. It is considered "Food safe" but not impervious to hot solvents such as ethanol/methanol/acetone and many others produced in trace amounts when distilling ethanol.

To give my opinion on the question you asked Bill, I'd say your best option, purely from the point of view of producing neutral (Ignoring all the other things that might need to be sorted) would be to add a section of the same diameter pipe (You can buy these in stainless, flange ended, from Aliexpress etc cheap enough) below your 180° bend, make it as long as you possibly can fit under your ceiling, packed with rolls of scrubbies.
I'm not sure what to suggest for reflux condensing but to run neutral properly you will need something. Maybe buy a pre-made dephlegmator?
Also I'd loose the parrot.

[PoolGuy]

OK Mr. Moose, why "loose the parrot"? Seems pretty dang handy to me. What am I missing? Do you hate Jimmy Buffet too?

[Wildcats]

OK Mr. Moose, why "loose the parrot"? Seems pretty dang handy to me. What am I missing? Do you hate Jimmy Buffet too?

The reason why most members don't use a parrot is they cause smearing. I was gonna build one when I built my still. But I didn't because they cause smearing. Learning cuts is one of the biggest curves for new distillers. Adding another source for smearing to the process can make cuts harder. There is a ton of threads here that explains this. Any questions you have, have already been answered. The search function is your best friend. Good luck. Have fun and stay safe.viewtopic.php?t=57195

[Steve Broady]

OK Mr. Moose, why "loose the parrot"? Seems pretty dang handy to me. What am I missing? Do you hate Jimmy Buffet too?

The reason why most members don't use a parrot is they cause smearing.

I’ll add that knowing the ABV off the spout isn’t all that useful, unless you’ve made a specific recipe in a specific still enough times to know without a doubt where the cut points are by proof. And even then, vapor temperature would give the same information with less smearing.

When I started, I carefully measured the proof of every single jar I collected. And I rapidly learned that I was wasting my time. Taste was the only deciding factor, and I’d only want to know the proof of whatever I ended up with.

[MooseMan]

OK Mr. Moose, why "loose the parrot"? Seems pretty dang handy to me. What am I missing? Do you hate Jimmy Buffet too?

2 guys already beat me to it but yeah, it's gonna smear everything through your runs and it's not really any use to you anyway.

Far, far more important though, and what should get all your attention before even thinking about the parrot, is to get those gaskets/seals checked and if silicone replaced before you run.

[PoolGuy]

Wildcats- Point taken. I will better learn to use the search bar rather than ask the same question that has been asked a hundred times. That said, thanks for the answer. I now understand it. The more I read on this HD sight, the more I am amazed at the depth of knowledge here. Endless and priceless.

SB- Yup, guess it is time for me to loose my artificial crutch (parrot) and start honing my sensory skills.

At the risk of asking another redundant question, how come I find my nose to be a more powerful tool than my taste buds? Probably just me, but if I am not alone, I would like to know. Maybe my buds just need more training. Sure beats training for just abut any other skill .

[still_stirrin]

I don’t have a parrot, so I’m not giving a “user’s input” here.

But, a parrot might be useful during the strip runs to see how far through the run you are. Obviously, the collection jar will tell you when to stop collecting (average %ABV of the low wines), but as the “proof at the spout” drops, you can estimate progression of the run.

Some of us hobbyists like the “look of utility” and creativity of parrot builds. But, as many will attest, “they’re just ‘bling’”.

However, you DON’T NEED a parrot to run your still, and this IS from experience.
ss

[PoolGuy]

Consider my parrot flown. I'm learning.

As far as gaskets, my only other experience running any kind of still was running a pretty big (54gal?) 4" Mile High still for a friend who was "getting into the business" back on 2018. I had no idea what I was doing, but that is another story. The point is that the fancy Mile High gaskets were all translucent and very flexible. Based on your description, pretty sure they were silicone. So if they are good enough for Mile High...........????????

[MooseMan]

Consider my parrot flown. I'm learning.

As far as gaskets, my only other experience running any kind of still was running a pretty big (54gal?) 4" Mile High still for a friend who was "getting into the business" back on 2018. I had no idea what I was doing, but that is another story. The point is that the fancy Mile High gaskets were all translucent and very flexible. Based on your description, pretty sure they were silicone. So if they are good enough for Mile High...........????????

If silicone is good enough for Mile High, then Mile High should lift their standards.

The use of ANY other plastic than PTFE that will have product contact in "Distillation equipment" is very strongly discouraged here.

[Steve Broady]

First off, a cursory search will yield many, many threads about silicone, the majority of them locked. Rather than rehash it here and have yet another thread licked, I strongly suggest you do some reading. That’s said completely out of kindness, rather than cruelty as it might sound (it’s awfully hard to convey subtlety via text).

Regarding smell vs taste, our sense of smell is FAR more capable of discerning different compounds than is our sense of taste. Any chef will tell you that smell is more important that taste. It’s also why we have different shaped glasses for different beverages, because it captures and controls and presents the aromas properly.

[PoolGuy]

Learning distilling AND learning to use this wonderful on-line resource. Thanks all for your patience with me. My purpose of posting in this thread was to share my observations regarding the "HOOLOO" brand still that I purchased. Damn rabbit hole.

[joschi]

i'm finally planning on building a bigger still, my plan is: Pot still with 50 l beer keg, liebig about 1'200 mm long (better 1'400 mm?) 22 mm inner diameter, 28 mm outer tube, 5'500 watt internal heating element with SCR controller. Are my numbers correct?

I think i read here, stripping can be done in 2 hours, is that possible?
How fast can i expect a stripping run, and how long would a spirit run be (just a rough guess)

thank you

[still_stirrin]

i'm finally planning on building a bigger still, my plan is: Pot still with 50 l beer keg, liebig about 1'200 mm long (better 1'400 mm?) 22 mm inner diameter, 28 mm outer tube, 5'500 watt internal heating element with SCR controller. Are my numbers correct?

I think i read here, stripping can be done in 2 hours, is that possible?
How fast can i expect a stripping run, and how long would a spirit run be (just a rough guess)

thank you

This is the output from the online calculator: https://homedistiller.org/wiki/htm/calc ... t_calc.htm

Strip Run Calculation

I’ve made assumptions for your wash and still operation because of the details not provided. But, the data seems plausible, although that is not the way I’d run your still.

Also, running it this fast would be acceptable for a strip run, but too fast for a spirit run, unless you like to smear everything from the back to the front—>brings an image to mind of someone sitting in an outhouse! (That’s a LOO for you Aussies)

This is an estimate for the spirit run of your low wines.

Spirit Run Calculation

Notice, I’ve lowered the heat input so you don’t smear quite as bad.
ss

[Tōtōchtin]

Not familiar with your still pero the 2 Chinese stills I've seen the plates were removable. If they are just buy another 2' section and some packing material. I would buy some copper pipe and 2 ferrules. If you can't glue them together with some solder it wouldn't cost that much to have someone braze that for you, especially if you prep it first
Tōtō

[MooseMan]

i'm finally planning on building a bigger still, my plan is: Pot still with 50 l beer keg, liebig about 1'200 mm long (better 1'400 mm?) 22 mm inner diameter, 28 mm outer tube, 5'500 watt internal heating element with SCR controller. Are my numbers correct?

I think i read here, stripping can be done in 2 hours, is that possible?
How fast can i expect a stripping run, and how long would a spirit run be (just a rough guess)

thank you

Yeah that's a pretty typical setup joschi.
Similar to what I have actually.

Strips really fast so yes, 2hrs is easily possible.
Spirit runs you want to be looking at 6hrs.

[joschi]

i'm finally planning on building a bigger still, my plan is: Pot still with 50 l beer keg, liebig about 1'200 mm long (better 1'400 mm?) 22 mm inner diameter, 28 mm outer tube, 5'500 watt internal heating element with SCR controller. Are my numbers correct?

I think i read here, stripping can be done in 2 hours, is that possible?
How fast can i expect a stripping run, and how long would a spirit run be (just a rough guess)

thank you

Yeah that's a pretty typical setup joschi.
Similar to what I have actually.

Strips really fast so yes, 2hrs is easily possible.
Spirit runs you want to be looking at 6hrs.

@MooseMan: Thanks a lot, that's what i wantet to know.
@still stirrin: i knew i cant run that fast for a spirit run, but thanks for the reminder, and also this calculator, saw it before, but somehow i forgot a about it ...

[NormandieStill]

i'm finally planning on building a bigger still, my plan is: Pot still with 50 l beer keg, liebig about 1'200 mm long (better 1'400 mm?) 22 mm inner diameter, 28 mm outer tube, 5'500 watt internal heating element with SCR controller. Are my numbers correct?

I think i read here, stripping can be done in 2 hours, is that possible?
How fast can i expect a stripping run, and how long would a spirit run be (just a rough guess)

The condensor calculator on the site suggests that you want closer to 2m if you want to run your full 5.5kW. I have just under 1m of jacketed 16mm and I can overpower it from around 3.5kW and I have basically no flow control at that point. If you want to get maximal efficiency of your cooling water then you need extra length.

6 hours seems to be the sweet spot for spirit runs. Regardless of boiler size. You just need to choose your element to match the volume.

[joschi]

i'm finally planning on building a bigger still, my plan is: Pot still with 50 l beer keg, liebig about 1'200 mm long (better 1'400 mm?) 22 mm inner diameter, 28 mm outer tube, 5'500 watt internal heating element with SCR controller. Are my numbers correct?

I think i read here, stripping can be done in 2 hours, is that possible?
How fast can i expect a stripping run, and how long would a spirit run be (just a rough guess)

The condensor calculator on the site suggests that you want closer to 2m if you want to run your full 5.5kW. I have just under 1m of jacketed 16mm and I can overpower it from around 3.5kW and I have basically no flow control at that point. If you want to get maximal efficiency of your cooling water then you need extra length.

6 hours seems to be the sweet spot for spirit runs. Regardless of boiler size. You just need to choose your element to match the volume.

2 meters? Wow, don't know if that fits in my space, have to make some considerations then, but thank you for the advice. I will go as big as possible then. I think it would help with a bigger diameter? If i can find bigger copper-tubes and fittings.

[NormandieStill]

2 meters? Wow, don't know if that fits in my space, have to make some considerations then, but thank you for the advice. I will go as big as possible then. I think it would help with a bigger diameter? If i can find bigger copper-tubes and fittings.

The link to the calculator is here. Play around with the numbers. Things to take into account are: how cold you are prepared to keep the coolant outlet temp (this directly impacts flow rate, so you'll use a lot more water if you want to keep the output cool), vapour speed (a larger diameter tube will reduce the vapour speed which allows for more contact time with the walls. This is the reason that shotgun condensers are so efficient, for their length, the vapour speed through them is highly reduced as they often present a cross-sectional area almost equal to the lyne arm.

The biggest factor will come down to how big you can actually make your liebig... this depends on the size of the room and your budget. But in general... go as big as you can. I speak from experience when I say that it sucks to butt up against the limits of what your condenser can handle.

[The Baker]

You don't need to have a Liebig condenser, you could have a more efficient Davies condenser.
Inside tube; water. Middle tube; vapour. Outside tube; water.
You don't need to have your condenser in a straight line. You could have two condensers in line with each other,
with an elbow (or different angle of bend) where they join.
Or you can have an old-fashioned copper coil in a water drum. That's what everyone used (way) back in the day.
Can't think of the fancy name...'Flake stand'?
Not as fashionable but they work fine. I used that where I had no power for a pump and no reticulated water.
Think outside the box.
P. S. A lot of liebig condensers are upright...

Geoff

[MooseMan]

I'm nowhere near to the limits of my Liebig, I run it with just a trickle of water with 2x2000+w elements on full.
I run it so that the water leaving the Liebig is too hot to keep my fingers in, and the product is just about blood temp.

Mine is 28/22mm, 1400mm long and just has a twisted blade of copper about 10" long, in the inlet end to disturb the vapour as it enters.

Edited to add:
I think the less volume the jacket holds the better to maximize fluid exchange, so 28/22mm is a great diameter combo as the actual water jacket been the copper is so thin.

[Yummyrum]

I agree with mooseman . Thin water jacket area is better and 28 over 22mm is a good choice . I’m using Aussie size copper . Mine is 25 over 19mm and is a little under 6’ long . Mine is predominantly to keep the collection area away from the flames , but if you are going electric , you could consider a shotgun to reduce the footprint .

The bakers suggestion of a good old fashioned worm in a flake stand ( bucket) is another good way to keep it small . You are simply getting a length of copper and coiling it io into a smaller area . Unless the volume of water in the flake is more than twice the volume in your boiler , you’ll still need to pass water through the flake as it will become too hot before the stripping run is done . In at the bottom , out at the top .

Taking this concept further , a very tightly coiled copper pipe inside say a 3” or 4” shell is called a Graham condenser

[PoolGuy]

Last Thursday (11/16) I posted observations regarding a Chinese "HooLoo" still that I bought. I just finished stripping/running 30gal of SSS. I have questions about operation of this thing and more observations that might be useful to others.

Is this the place to post my questions and observations? If not appropriate for this thread, where should I post?

[acfixer69]

Last Thursday (11/16) I posted observations regarding a Chinese "HooLoo" still that I bought. I just finished stripping/running 30gal of SSS. I have questions about operation of this thing and more observations that might be useful to others.

Is this the place to post my questions and observations? If not appropriate for this thread, where should I post?

It would be best to start your own topic and ask questions specific to a HooLoo still what ever the hell that may be. A picture would help.

[PoolGuy]

OK. Scroll up a few ticks for a picture if so inclined.