The Badmotivator Bain-Marie and Oak Barrel

[pretender]

I was about toasted oak. I have panini press [WINKING FACE] Do I have this effect I will acheive the oak on the tin plate placed on the gas stove?

[Badmotivator]

There are many ways to toast the oak. The method I like uses the flat side of a panini press that has temperature control. I set it to 400°F (205°C) or 425°F and leave the wood on it for 2 hours. Outdoors or in the garage is best because toasting wood is very aromatic. With the panini press in the flat position (both top and bottom plate are usable) I can do 6-8 staves at a time, and I don't have to think about it. My panini press turns itself off after 2 hours, so I can set it up and then walk away.

Other common methods, and some limitations:

• Oven, closed - one problem for us barrel builders is that it toasts the whole stave. We only want one face of the stave toasted.
• Oven broiler (top burner of the oven only), door open - very difficult to maintain an even, regular, precise temperature. Easy to burn the wood. Don't walk away from this one.
• barbecue/ gas grill - same problem as the broiler
• gas torch by hand - Wow, what a painful waste of time this would be to do lots of staves. Also easy to burn the wood. How will you read the temperature?

If you plan to make a significant number of these barrels, a temperature-controlled flat thing (panini press, electric crepe pan, induction burner with temp control, etc. Ideas are welcome here!) is a worthwhile investment.

[pretender]

I wrote it bad. I have no panini press. That's why I'm looking for another way to roast.

[pretender]

Any other way to control the process of oak toast? I would like toasted boards but in the middle put a "piece" of burnt oak, on charcoal, as on my photo.
I have no idea for a controlled toasting process ... without panini press

I also like feet. Next barrel in poler, as the Americans say, to be blink: P
I have yet to develop a way to pour distillate and a handle to carry the barrel means my "bain-marie"

[Badmotivator]

I've been thinking about stitching together a complete set of instructions for building Badmotivator Barrels for a long time. I'm picking away at that project. Video clips of each process might be useful, so I have to figure out how to make those look good. Anyone else here love Jimmy DiResta's videos like I do? Anyway, here's the kind of thing I'm playing with:

[Badmotivator]

BadMO. Have you considered using a t and g router setup? This would allow the oak to swell into each other possibly creating a better seal. If you've already tried it and it failed let me know so I know to avoid it.

It looks like tongue and groove is employed by some cooperages for joining the head staves. This video is from Tonnellerie Vicard in Cognac. Skip to 2:33 if you want to go straight to the making of the heads.

[yakattack]

That's a great video BadMO. Im not suprised that it works and is used commarcially. Guess that means I will incorporate it into the heads. I've got some staves from a 55g barrel still I want to use to make a small barrel. Hoping to find time this month to do so.

[pretender]

Badmo
I found in my local electric grill Solac Saninisima XL. Will it be good to toasted wood?

[pretender]

Previously you wrote that toasted 80 minutes at 425 and now 120 minutes at 400-425. What is the difference ? Have you already described it?

[hpby98]

BadMO. Have you considered using a t and g router setup? This would allow the oak to swell into each other possibly creating a better seal. If you've already tried it and it failed let me know so I know to avoid it.

It looks like tongue and groove is employed by some cooperages for joining the head staves. This video is from Tonnellerie Vicard in Cognac. Skip to 2:33 if you want to go straight to the making of the heads.

Thx for the video link. Definitely interesting

[SaltyStaves]

This video is from Tonnellerie Vicard in Cognac.

Great video.

People seasoning their own oak should pay close attention to how much mold is on that wood (you can see it throughout the video at various times also).

[OtisT]

Hey Badmo. Good to meet you recently and thanks for the Badmotivator Barrel #43.

BBOB #43

It's now 3/4 full of Honey Bear Bourbon.

[WIski]

BadMo Wrote'
It looks like tongue and groove is employed by some cooperages for joining the head staves.

The Barrel Mill also uses tongue and groove milled boards on their head staves.

http://www.thebarrelmill.com/barrels" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Badmotivator]

The Barrel Mill also uses tongue and groove milled boards on their head staves.

http://www.thebarrelmill.com/barrels" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Cool. I like the joining method I’m using now, but if I was going to be doing five or ten a day I would buy one or two cheap router tables and keep them set up for quick T&G cutting. Neat idea!

[hpby98]

Looking for inserts and came across these for $6.50 each

https://www.webstaurantstore.com/6-qt-b ... 78760.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Not sure about the lack of taper tho

Any other links?

[hpby98]

Also as I didn’t want to threadjack
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =4&t=68269

The video mentions endgrains are 8x quicker at absorbing

What if the cover was made all from end grain blocks?

I’m ignorant so forgive the silly question...

[The Baker]

Looking for inserts and came across these for $6.50 each

https://www.webstaurantstore.com/6-qt-b ... 78760.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Not sure about the lack of taper tho

Any other links?

they say,'tapered insets, as we call them'

so it looks as though they are tapered. I had wondered that myself about similar 'cans', but I figured they would have SOME taper, so as to fit inside each other for packing.

Geoff

[Stargazer14]

Looking for inserts and came across these for $6.50 each

https://www.webstaurantstore.com/6-qt-b ... 78760.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Not sure about the lack of taper tho

Any other links?

Those are the same ones I use, work well. Very slight taper.

[hpby98]

Looking for inserts and came across these for $6.50 each

https://www.webstaurantstore.com/6-qt-b ... 78760.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Not sure about the lack of taper tho

Any other links?

Those are the same ones I use, work well. Very slight taper.

Thx for letting me know - I’ll get some on order

[Badmotivator]

Also as I didn’t want to threadjack
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =4&t=68269

The video mentions endgrains are 8x quicker at absorbing

What if the cover was made all from end grain blocks?

I’m ignorant so forgive the silly question...

No problem. It bears repeating every now and then: the goal of the Badmotivator Barrel is to match the performance of a large oak barrel, but in a size that is appropriate for hobby distillers. It is not to maximize oak contact, aging speed, oxygenation, or any other variable you can think of. I want my spirits to think they are in a 53 gallon barrel.

The reason end grain can’t be used is because of the microscopic structure of wood. All tree woods have vertical capillary tubes that remain more or less porous even in heartwood. Oak is better than most, because the capillary tubes in the heartwood are sealed pretty well by lumps of tissue called tyloses. (There is a great illustration on the Wikipedia page: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tylose" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow ) But “sealed pretty well” isn’t nearly good enough if you are putting liquid on one end of those tubes and letting it sit there for a year or more. Think of end grain as acting like a bunch of straws, somewhat plugged by wads of tissue. You will lose an unholy amount of your spirit.

Between the capillary tubes and the medullary rays (about which much has been said in this thread) the orientation of the wood is pretty much set in stone. It must be quartersawn wood, oriented so that both the capillaries and the medullaries are in the plane of the barrel head and point from stainless steel to stainless steel. If they point from spirit to air, you lose too much.

[OtisT]

I plan to force my BBOB to breath a bit by cycling temps. Do others do this, and if so how do you do it safely?

My BBOB had been sitting consistently in the low 60s F for a few weeks so I thought I would force a little breathing by putting it over the heater vent for a few hours. It got a little too hot, I'm guessing 105 F, and some wax oozed from the seams before I removed it to slowly cool back down. I will be doing this again in a few weeks but next time I won't let it get quite so hot.

Thanks. Otis

[Badmotivator]

I plan to force my BBOB to breath a bit by cycling temps. Do others do this, and if so how do you do it safely?

My BBOB had been sitting consistently in the low 60s F for a few weeks so I thought I would force a little breathing by putting it over the heater vent for a few hours. It got a little too hot, I'm guessing 105 F, and some wax oozed from the seams before I removed it to slowly cool back down. I will be doing this again in a few weeks but next time I won't let it get quite so hot.

Thanks. Otis

I don’t, but I’ve thought about it many times. What I would like to do is set up two identical barrels, except one has a thermowell and a heating band and a thermostat. Age them side by side, but one at room temp and the other at 95. Maybe soon...

I would not worry very much about the wax oozing out. As it gets warmer it gets softer, and the wood is squeezing it pretty hard because of the expansion due to soaking. It’s probably just some tiny tiny bit being squeezed out, to be replaced by wood to wood contact. The wax is only there for insurance anyway, and is not needed if the wood wants to join properly, which it should.

[Badmotivator]

Here's a fun new toy! I was about to hit Barrel #50, and I thought I'd celebrate by making a Badmotivator Barrel Brand. I modeled a logo in Sketchup, built a branding tip structure onto it, uploaded it to Shapeways and had them print it in stainless steel. It cost around $20, not including the few prototypes I printed first. I attached the branding tip to a long bolt and made an oak handle. I hold it in a torch flame for 20 or 30 seconds, test it on some scrap, and then press it for about 3 seconds onto the barrel head.

[Oldvine Zin]

Nice touch

OVZ

[Stark]

Hi everybody. I've got my barrels. This photo after 24h with product inside.

[WIski]

Stark, did you put a finish on the wood?

Love the canned venison BTW?? Yes??

[OtisT]

Hi everybody. I've got my barrels. This photo after 24h with product inside.

Nice! So is the back wood as well? Looks like stainless pipe, or is that aluminum?

[Stark]

I used fire for the wood before it was inside. My oak circles are 3mm thickness. It's very simple and very tight in this moment. This is stainless steel pipe , 20mm diameter.

[The Baker]

YES!

I have been thinking of stainless pipe! Thanks, Stark.

Geoff

[Badmotivator]

Hi everybody. I've got my barrels.

Stark, those are beautiful! Thanks for sharing the photos. I hope you get long and faithful service from them. I hope you'll update us in the future about their performance, good or bad, so that we can benefit from your experience.