uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

[Housemoney]

I’m thinking of starting over after my next run. I have a half gallon of gen 4 backset in the fridge.

Anything else I should do before I start it up again?

[Saltbush Bill]

What do you mean by "starting over".....do you mean stopping the generational thing?
If so why?

[Housemoney]

What do you mean by "starting over".....do you mean stopping the generational thing?
If so why?

Yes, figured I used most of my available corn. It’s taking about 3 weeks to ferment out. I think my best tasting was gen 3 and 4. Pay closer attention to PH this time. Learned from my mistakes.

[Saltbush Bill]

There is no need to start over, replace a little of the grain and use less backset next time.
Too much backset will cause slower ferments.

[Housemoney]

I get very little floating corn. Read in here there’s a level of spent corn under the fresh corn you keep adding. No way to get that out without eventually starting over.

[NZChris]

The layering talked about doesn't happen for me. I scoop out about a third of the old and add a third of the grain bill each time.

[Poitín Sue]

Could I ask the experts....how good can this recipe be? I'm all too happy if it's potentially as good as one of the better store bought bourbons. Is it though....providing a gal gets her ducks in a row, age it nicely etc.....can I make something outstanding?
Thanks Jesse BTW. I'm not being disparaging

[subbrew]

It produces a very corn forward spirit, lot of corn flavor. Probably more corn flavor than any commercial produce I know of. As such, it is not as complex as many store bought bourbons. So it will be different. But if done right it will be very good.

People need to realize,for higher end bourbon a commercial installer can choose the best barrels from a warehouse. We don't have that option. Because we can better control cuts and micro manage aging I think we can, on the average make a better drink than the average from a commercial concern. But there would be some luck to get better than their best as they have the option of picking barrels at the very high end of the bell curve.

[Poitín Sue]

Thanks subbrew. Apart from powers gold label I don't really buy any more 'standard' whiskey....I'm just as happy sipping my own grainy vodka, odins rye, ujssm etc...the taste is as good or maybe even better- plus there's a nice self satisfaction that accompanies every drop
. I still do request some posh bottles from family at Christmas etc. I'd love to think my own stuff will be as posh in years to come

[TwoSheds]

My take, UJSSM is a best bang-for-the-buck product and I feel like that's what it's meant to be. Tight cuts and nobody will complain white or aged. Open up the cuts and you'll get plenty of character but it'll take time (and wood.)

Get involved in all grains and, well, you'll face some of the same decisions but get a product with more complexity and character.

Both have their place, and even though I've been running, aging, and sampling all-grain I feel like I want to circle back to UJSSM and see if I can do it better justice than I have before. Now I just need more time...

I'm with you @Poitin Sue on the self-satisfaction though! Nothing like tasting your own product and something nobody else has in their glass.

TwoSheds

[Saltbush Bill]

I get very little floating corn. Read in here there’s a level of spent corn under the fresh corn you keep adding.

The layering talked about doesn't happen for me.

I've never had very much float at all, nor have I notice layering.
Simply remove a bit of grain every couple of ferments and replace it with fresh stuff. How much you replace is up to you.
I've always Run 60L ferments for my UJ and would replace about a liter jug of grain every second or third ferment.
It helps to give all of the grain a good stir up each time that you start the next generation as the grain bed can become quite compacted as time and generations go by.
Ive never looked at it as bourbon .....more a sugar head whisky......it is what it is UJSSM.
Can it be good?....... YES it can, given time on oak it can be very good.

[Stags]

Could I ask the experts....how good can this recipe be? I'm all too happy if it's potentially as good as one of the better store bought bourbons. Is it though....providing a gal gets her ducks in a row, age it nicely etc.....can I make something outstanding?
Thanks Jesse BTW. I'm not being disparaging

Damn good is the answer. Damn good. I prefer my UJSSM to anything I can find on a shelf.

I will also offer an unpopular opinion here- once you have mastered the principles of UJSSM there is no reason you can’t tweak the grain bill to your own tastes and desires if you keep the principles the same. I’ve added oats, wheat, and rye at different times while keeping the principle ratios the same and it has added complexity and flavor.

[Yonder]

Could I ask the experts....how good can this recipe be? I'm all too happy if it's potentially as good as one of the better store bought bourbons. Is it though....providing a gal gets her ducks in a row, age it nicely etc.....can I make something outstanding?
Thanks Jesse BTW. I'm not being disparaging

UJSSM is not a bourbon. There is no barley or rye in the mash. It is a corn whiskey. Aged properly, it will stack up at the top of almost all store bought. I’d match it up with Balcones “Blue” any day and save the $40 a bottle, too.

[Housemoney]

Glad to get this thread going again. I racked off about 8 gallons yesterday that I need to run today. I agree that it’s hard to beat. I’m amazed at the flavor I get from 2 weeks on chips.

I’m getting ready to start an AG large batch to fill a barrel. I’ll keep running UJSSM as my daily whisky.

[Saltbush Bill]

I’m amazed at the flavor I get from 2 weeks on chips.

You'd be more amazed at what happens after a couple of years in a barrel..
BTW chips are not recommended for oaking/ aging.......you'll get much better results using home made sticks or domino's from a supplier.

[sadie33]

Is it cheating to run a batch of this and save enough backset for 3 ferments, or is the point to add consecutive backset to each batch? Does it matter?

[NZChris]

Is it cheating to run a batch of this and save enough backset for 3 ferments, or is the point to add consecutive backset to each batch? Does it matter?

If it is cheating, I'm a cheat. I often use all of the backset and trub to make a next generation three or four times larger.

[subbrew]

Is it cheating to run a batch of this and save enough backset for 3 ferments, or is the point to add consecutive backset to each batch? Does it matter?

It might make a small difference as you are not getting the full generation effect. But you are still getting generation effect of the corn and wash left in the fermenter. So call it a .5 generation. We are hobbyist, there are no rules.

[Saltbush Bill]

No it not cheating , just divide your grain between the fermenters and add some fresh grain as well.

[sadie33]

thanks guys!!

[NZChris]

Is it cheating to run a batch of this and save enough backset for 3 ferments, or is the point to add consecutive backset to each batch? Does it matter?

My method of cheating;
viewtopic.php?p=7752894#p7752894

[Dutch41]

2020 Batch of UJSSM: I had about six gallons of UJSSM that I made in 2020. All six gallons were in one gallon jugs with one medium charred stave per gallon jug. I had a new, small, medium charred barrel, about a #1 or #2 liter size that I disassembled for the sole purpose of using the staves in the one gallon jugs. About 60 days before bottling the UJSSM, I took about twelve staves and put them in a 1/2 gallon mason jar and topped it off with port wine. I bottled three gallons of UJSSM to share and enjoy, and I took the remaining three gallons of UJSSM and finished each one gallon jug with one stave from the port wine container for about 30 days. It all came out great. This was the first time I did any kind of "finishing" and I was amazed at the final product. I wish everybody a Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays...

[MooseMan]

Dutch that sounds delicious!

[sadie33]

As above , it will more than likely go again without trouble, Ive left them at times for that long.
Sometimes when they have sat a while they can be slow to get fermenting again, give it at least 3-4 days before deciding that it wont work.
If it wont go , nothing lost, just add a little more yeast.
Dont judge if its fermenting or not by the airlock bubbling, that's not always a great indicator. Lifting the lid to see whats happening inside is more reliable.

When keeping it on the grain for say a month or longer, have you noticed any difference in flavor from the yeast bed?

[Saltbush Bill]

I've never really notice a difference , but then mine rarely get tasted / drunk as individual batches.....it all goes into one 96L barrel, so it's a blend of many generations / ferments.
Some will have sat on the grain for a few days after fermentation finishes......some for months.

[PoolGuy]

I keep reading. And reading. And reading. But still need clarification...

My questions are regarding distillation. Some folks use a pot still. Quick hard strip run(s) followed by less quick spirit run. Some folks use a plated still and do a one n done. My goal is to make the UJSSM that everyone here raves about. Smooth. Flavorful. Yummy. Here is my still:

I can remove plates and run as pot still (as shown), or put them in along with dephlag and do a reflux one n done. First question: Which is preferable?

My current experiment is gen1,2,3 stripped, then low wines run without plates or reflux (pot still, 25%ABV, 20L charge) low and slow (2L/h). I finished this spirit run as described yesterday, but my thought is that I ran it TOO slow and left a lot of flavor in the pot. Should this spirit run be done slow like I did? Or faster to keep flavors and/or just get the job done?

My gen 4 will be 60L, so I will have 2 or 3 still charges & spirit runs. My plan is to try one n done (3 or 4 plates with reflux). Should I stack the column at the start of the run? Should I try to keep all plates bubbling and boiling throughout the run? Should I do slow product rate (1L/hr). Again, my concern is inadvertently stripping off flavors.

For the first time, I am NOT trying to make a neutral spirit.

[TwoSheds]

Hey PoolGuy, you're asking some good questions here and you've got a rig that will let you do all of the above and more. One question back to you though, what do you plan to do with your UJSSM?

Aging with wood will allow you looser cuts and let you preserve a larger yield. Working in pot still mode with a strip and spirit run will give you more overlap or bleeding of your heads and tails into the hearts and likely give you the most flavor, but it takes experience to know what will taste good after a year on wood.

If drinking white you will be sacrificing some flavors (that aren't great white but might change and/or add complexity if aged) by making tighter cuts, keeping less product near the middle of the run. It's still achievable with a pot still but plates will likely let you get smaller heads/tails and a bigger hearts cut. A side benefit to running plates is it will make your heads and tails cuts more obvious, very helpful as you gain experience.

You can cut for white drinking or aging with either method. You can also make multiple blends from your cuts, mixing in a little broader cuts for aging but keeping a couple jars of the center for drinking white.

I've run UJSSM in all sorts of ways, including a true one-and-done through two or three plates, one-and-a-half runs (most of a charge of mash+low wines from a stripping run) and a standard strip and spirit. For drinking white my preference was through plates, for aging pot still was nice. YMMV.

The one thing I wouldn't bother with if I had 2 or 3 still charges is doing them all one-and-done. If you strip you can do it fast-and-furious and three strips will probably get you a boiler charge that you can do low-and-slow once, rather than having to do three low-and-slow spirit runs.

Give it all a try though! And keep the mash going so you can experiment even more.

Side note, your column is getting tall and could probably use some supplemental support. Otherwise you may find it leans some, which isn't ideal, and you're probably stressing the lid. Maybe you can run a support from your ceiling?

Good luck, and stay safe!

TwoSheds.

[Sporacle]

Poolguy, my UJ off a 4 inch 4 plate is very smooth.
3 plates has a bit more flavour.
Personally I run 4 plates mostly.
I initially ran a 1.5 on 4 plates and cut very tight.
Now I run a wash with fients from the previous spirit run, I shut the deflagameter at the end of the run and collect deep.

White, it is good. As Twosheds pointed out you can make a couple of blends.

In terms of how your plater should run, it should run as it should run. Plates loaded and not flooding, just balance power, abv and take off rate.

My plates look the same on a all grain, a UJ or rum. Likewise my take-off rate and abv are the same for all three

[PoolGuy]

One question back to you though, what do you plan to do with your UJSSM?

Not the answer I was expecting. You are making me think. I have no idea what I want to do with my UJ other than... share and drink the best I can make. I split up my gen1/2/3 spirit run, 1/2 is white dog, and 1/2 is out in the shed in a 2qt glass jar with a 6" piece of medium toast. When cutting, I dumped heads pretty deep, but found surprisingly good flavors deep in the tails. It was not like other cuts that I have done making neutrals (I'm learning). I also like your idea of pulling some white out of the middle of the hearts, saving the rest for oaking. Wish I had tried that.

For my gen4, although I might save some time doing strips, then a spirit, I think that I will experiment and try a plate/reflux run or two and compare, if for no other reason than to learn my still and what it can do.

gen5? Anybody's guess. But I know it will be better with the knowledge gained here.

[PoolGuy]

my UJ off a 4 inch 4 plate is very smooth.

I'll be trying it your way on my gen4 and little 2-incher.