Shady's Sugar Shine

[LordL]

I'm not questioning the recipe itself. It seems like some of the best sugar wash ones out here.

I just wanted to provide additional information regarding what happens (or not happens) when yeast is boiled, Vs. Kept at a temperature of autolysis.

[NZChris]

Maybe you should have started a new thread rather than risking this technology getting buried/lost in this, rather large, one.

[shadylane]

I'm not questioning the recipe itself. It seems like some of the best sugar wash ones out here.

I just wanted to provide additional information regarding what happens (or not happens) when yeast is boiled, Vs. Kept at a temperature of autolysis.

Your probably right and I appreciate the input.
Lower temps, plus more time could be better so proteins don't get denatured.
Plan B, is to worry less about perfection and to sacrifice more yeast.

[NZChris]

I've been cheating by using a scoop of Vegemite.

[shadylane]

I've been cheating by using a scoop of Vegemite.

Vegemite works for nutrients but is kinda salty.
I keep a jar so folks around here can figure out what Men at work are talking about a vegemite sandwich. Guess Vegemite works better on homemade damper. One things for sure, it seems to have a 'Very long shelf life"
It's also one of those flavors that a Youngen will make a face, then reach for more.

[NZChris]

It isn't salty enough to stop any wash I've used it for so far. Having a long shelf life is very handy as it means that I nearly always have enough if I need to put a ferment down.

The one time I did boil yeast, I saw oily patches about the color of Vegemite on the surface.

There was talk of banning the sale of Vegemite in Australia's Northern Territory a few years ago.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/world/ ... Australia.

[LordL]

Maybe you should have started a new thread rather than risking this technology getting buried/lost in this, rather large, one.

I could have sworn on that I got this info from another thread here somewhere. Can't find it though..

But you seem to have knowledge in the subject as well, using vegimite, i bought a can as well after having read the article.

[Saltbush Bill]

Personally I wouldn't waste perfectly good Vegemite in a wash , it belongs on your toast for breakfast or on a Vegemite and cheese sanga for lunch.
This recipe didn't make it to T&T because it needs changing.

[bigbone32]

Hello. I did 2 fermenters of this recipe and except adding the vitamins followed the recipe to a T. Both fermenters had the same amount of water and sugar. Fermenter 1 I used Domino pure can sugar and barrel 2 I used Walmart Pure Sugar, which I assume is beet sugar. Barrel 1 starting brix was 15.6 (1.0637 w/potential ABV of 8.6%). Barrel 2 starting brix was 14.4 (1.0586 w/potential ABV of 7.8%). Barrel 1 stopped in 2.5 days at 4.5 (1.0177) brix and barrel 2 stopped in 3 days also at 4.5(1.0177) brix. I rarely if ever use sugar and do mostly all grain. With all grain i could live with 1.0177 but I was thinking sugar should finish a lot lower. How do these numbers sound and I have some EC1118 i could hit it with if that is necessary. Thanks in advance for the help.

[LordL]

Hello. I did 2 fermenters of this recipe and except adding the vitamins followed the recipe to a T. Both fermenters had the same amount of water and sugar. Fermenter 1 I used Domino pure can sugar and barrel 2 I used Walmart Pure Sugar, which I assume is beet sugar. Barrel 1 starting brix was 15.6 (1.0637 w/potential ABV of 8.6%). Barrel 2 starting brix was 14.4 (1.0586 w/potential ABV of 7.8%). Barrel 1 stopped in 2.5 days at 4.5 (1.0177) brix and barrel 2 stopped in 3 days also at 4.5(1.0177) brix. I rarely if ever use sugar and do mostly all grain. With all grain i could live with 1.0177 but I was thinking sugar should finish a lot lower. How do these numbers sound and I have some EC1118 i could hit it with if that is necessary. Thanks in advance for the help.

Hmmm, have any vitamins at hand?

Whats the pH in your washes?

[shadylane]

Were the measurements done with a refractometer?

[Wildcats]

I can't figure out why people have problems whit this recipe. It's soooo easy. Never had a problem with one. But I follow it to a T. And keep a heat pad under set on 85f. Maybe I've just been lucky... Makes so clean a drop. Absolutely love this recipe. And that fact that it's scaled to a 20 gal ferment. Makes 2 boiler charges of 10 gallons each. I usually get 5.5 gal of low wines from the stripping runs. Need to strip the 10 gals I have in the basement. It's been clearing for two weeks now.

[bigbone32]

I can't figure out why people have problems whit this recipe. It's soooo easy. Never had a problem with one. But I follow it to a T. And keep a heat pad under set on 85f. Maybe I've just been lucky... Makes so clean a drop. Absolutely love this recipe. And that fact that it's scaled to a 20 gal ferment. Makes 2 boiler charges of 10 gallons each. I usually get 5.5 gal of low wines from the stripping runs. Need to strip the 10 gals I have in the basement. It's been clearing for two weeks now.

Thanks for your expert guidance. Your insight is amazing. With asshole answers like yours, there is no need for a forum.

[bigbone32]

Were the measurements done with a refractometer?

Yes, I used a digital refractometer and zeroed it before I started.

[shadylane]

Were the measurements done with a refractometer?

Yes, I used a digital refractometer and zeroed it before I started.

There's the problem.
A refractometer lies after fermentation starts and alcohol is present.

[NZChris]

I can't figure out why people have problems whit this recipe. It's soooo easy. Never had a problem with one. But I follow it to a T. And keep a heat pad under set on 85f. Maybe I've just been lucky... Makes so clean a drop. Absolutely love this recipe. And that fact that it's scaled to a 20 gal ferment. Makes 2 boiler charges of 10 gallons each. I usually get 5.5 gal of low wines from the stripping runs. Need to strip the 10 gals I have in the basement. It's been clearing for two weeks now.

There are all manner of mistakes that can be made that are no fault of the recipe, e.g. using the wrong tool for measuring the progress of the ferment.

[MooseMan]

Hello. I did 2 fermenters of this recipe and except adding the vitamins followed the recipe to a T. Both fermenters had the same amount of water and sugar. Fermenter 1 I used Domino pure can sugar and barrel 2 I used Walmart Pure Sugar, which I assume is beet sugar. Barrel 1 starting brix was 15.6 (1.0637 w/potential ABV of 8.6%). Barrel 2 starting brix was 14.4 (1.0586 w/potential ABV of 7.8%). Barrel 1 stopped in 2.5 days at 4.5 (1.0177) brix and barrel 2 stopped in 3 days also at 4.5(1.0177) brix. I rarely if ever use sugar and do mostly all grain. With all grain i could live with 1.0177 but I was thinking sugar should finish a lot lower. How do these numbers sound and I have some EC1118 i could hit it with if that is necessary. Thanks in advance for the help.

Do you have a means of testing the pH?
It could have crashed due to low pH but calcium should have taken care of that, what kind of calcium did you use for buffering pH?
You could rack it off and see what's left of your shells/grit or whatever?

[Saltbush Bill]

Barrel 1 starting brix was 15.6 (1.0637 w/potential ABV of 8.6%). Barrel 2 starting brix was 14.4 (1.0586 w/potential ABV of 7.8%). Barrel 1 stopped in 2.5 days at 4.5 (1.0177) brix and barrel 2 stopped in 3 days also at 4.5(1.0177) brix

Guess 1, Is that Shady is right and its the refractometer giving a false reading.
Guess 2, Did barrel 1 stop in 2.5 days, did barrel 2 stop in 3.......or did the airlocks on the fermenters just stop bubbling ?
Have you checked them again a couple of days later ?

[Wildcats]

I can't figure out why people have problems whit this recipe. It's soooo easy. Never had a problem with one. But I follow it to a T. And keep a heat pad under set on 85f. Maybe I've just been lucky... Makes so clean a drop. Absolutely love this recipe. And that fact that it's scaled to a 20 gal ferment. Makes 2 boiler charges of 10 gallons each. I usually get 5.5 gal of low wines from the stripping runs. Need to strip the 10 gals I have in the basement. It's been clearing for two weeks now.

Thanks for your expert guidance. Your insight is amazing. With asshole answers like yours, there is no need for a forum.

I'm by no means an expert. Nor will I belittle myself by reacting to your nonsense. Hopefully you will save the ferment. The world don't revolve around you. Have fun and stay safe.

[bigbone32]

Were the measurements done with a refractometer?

Yes, I used a digital refractometer and zeroed it before I started.

There's the problem.
A refractometer lies after fermentation starts and alcohol is present.

Thanks. This is what I was looking for. I had no idea this was the case. Appreciate the info.

[greggn]

Were the measurements done with a refractometer?

Yes, I used a digital refractometer and zeroed it before I started.

There's the problem.
A refractometer lies after fermentation starts and alcohol is present.

Thanks. This is what I was looking for. I had no idea this was the case. Appreciate the info.

There are numerous calculators to correct a refractometer's measurements in the presence of alcohol. I use this one:

http://onebeer.net/refractometer.shtml

Using that, your numbers are a lot closer to what I'd expect for a sugar wash:

Barrel 1
15.6 brix > 4.5 brix = 0.990 FG

Barrel 2
14.4 brix > 4.5 brix = 0.993 FG

If you want precision, use a hydrometer. I use a refractometer as a quick check that my process/workflow is in control.

[shadylane]

Thanks. This is what I was looking for. I had no idea this was the case. Appreciate the info.

Don't feel bad, I had to learn this the hard way also.

[bigbone32]

Yes, I used a digital refractometer and zeroed it before I started.

There's the problem.
A refractometer lies after fermentation starts and alcohol is present.

Thanks. This is what I was looking for. I had no idea this was the case. Appreciate the info.

There are numerous calculators to correct a refractometer's measurements in the presence of alcohol. I use this one:

http://onebeer.net/refractometer.shtml

Using that, your numbers are a lot closer to what I'd expect for a sugar wash:

Barrel 1
15.6 brix > 4.5 brix = 0.990 FG

Barrel 2
14.4 brix > 4.5 brix = 0.993 FG

If you want precision, use a hydrometer. I use a refractometer as a quick check that my process/workflow is in control.

This is great information to have. Thanks for your help and thanks for the link. You and shadylane nailed my problem and are the reason this forum exists. Much appreciated. Looks like my all grains have had way better conversion than I thought. I have always used a refractometer. I ordered a hydrometer today and will be using it going forward. Thanks again to you and shadylane and all that tried to help.

[Wildcats]

Another reason why I love this fourm. I bought a refractometer months ago and it always read different then my hydrometer. So I just quit using it and now I know why it wasn't working for me.

[ecir54]

^^^ yes cranky shows why a refractometer is needed in this hobby so don't discard it.

[bigbone32]

^^^ yes cranky shows why a refractometer is needed in this hobby so don't discard it.

For sure will hang on to it. I'll still use it for SG and I do a lot of brandies so I use it to check the brix of fruit. Thanks for the tip.

[shadylane]

1.064 to 0.990 FG in 2-1/2 days is pretty good.

On a side note, Watch closely for the tails cut.
Sugar washes are noted for crappy tails.

[bigbone32]

1.064 to 0.990 FG in 2-1/2 days is pretty good.

On a side note, Watch closely for the tails cut.
Sugar washes are noted for crappy tails.

Thanks for the heads up. Stripping tomorrow. Ill do the spirit run on a 4 plate bubble cap column. I'll post an update when its done. Great recipe BTW and appreciate the help right from the source.

[BrewinBrian44]

Just had mine stall. First time in a long time to have sugar wash do this . I normally used powdered CC to buffer the ph drop, but think I accidentally didn’t add enough this time around. Other possibility is the bakers yeast getting a bit old in the fridge.

Stopped at 1.020 after 7 days. Chucked in some more powdered CC and a little fresh yeast. Fingers crossed

[Wildcats]

Just had mine stall. First time in a long time to have sugar wash do this . I normally used powdered CC to buffer the ph drop, but think I accidentally didn’t add enough this time around. Other possibility is the bakers yeast getting a bit old in the fridge.

Stopped at 1.020 after 7 days. Chucked in some more powdered CC and a little fresh yeast. Fingers crossed

OH Man!! Sorry to hear this. Hope it takes back off again. I have been hooked on this recipe. Really been my go too for several months straight now.
Good luck with your SSS. Cheer's